When coterminous Pakistan fought Alexander the Great and almost brought him down to his knees.

[Joe Shearer]

@Juggernaut_is_here why do you think ancestors of mongols and turks utterly dominated steppe warfare and forced IE speakers to migrate elsewhere? Do they have higher level of testosterone? IE speakers from steppe basically overwhelmed sedentary population in south central asia, Greece, Iran, coterminous Pakistan and coterminous India which wasn't that big of a deal looking at their life style.

The ancestors of the Mongols and the Turks were nowhere on the scene around the time of the IE speakers. We are speaking about the fifth century BC down to the third century AD; the Mongols formed themselves under Genghis Khan long afterwards, and until that conqueror's campaigns remained confined to Mongolia.

You may be referring to the Hiung Nu; they attacked the Kushana, who in turn attacked the Scythians and the Pahlavi, both speakers of eastern Iranian, and drove them out of Tajikistan and Kazakhstan into Bactria, or Balkh, where they inter alia destroyed the Bactrian Greek kingdoms.

What is south Central Asia?

Your reference to IE speakers overwhelming sedentary populations in Greece, Iran, and India is confusing. These occurred around a thousand years before the Scythians and Pahlevi were driven out, not by the Proto-Mongols or the Proto-Turks, but by the Kushana, who also spoke a variety of IE.

If the point was that proto-Mongols and proto-Turks had 'more testosterone' than IE speakers, it is a curious point, and made with facts that pay little or no regard to time-lines. There have been better posts on better subjects.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Indians why don't you get it, that you guys have Kalibangan, Lothal and Rakhigarhi to call your own civilization while Pakistanis have Harappa and Mohenjo-daro....both of us should be happy with the heritage we have

The sites you mentioned were all Indus settlements and outposts. Looking at them with current border markings is meaningless. They were all build by the people of Indus and shows the expansion of their empire/civilization in east from Indus river. Just like Egyptian civilization expanded from Nile going east towards what is now called holly lands.

Indians will be better off looking into Ganges river basin to find their own civilization which they can claim their own.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

The sites you mentioned were all Indus settlements and outposts. Looking at them with current border markings is meaningless. They were all build by the people of Indus and shows the expansion of their empire/civilization in east from Indus river. Just like Egyptian civilization expanded from Nile going east towards what is now called holly lands.

Indians will be better off looking into Ganges river basin to find their own civilization which they can claim their own.

Those sited were not established due to expansion. They were established when the whole IVC was established. They are their since the beginning of IVC. You can see it even in this video. You really need to put down others to feel superior?? Lol. There are more IVC sites in India then in Pakistan. Which mean most of IVC people lived in India instead of Pakistan. Saying that Most of IVC people were so called 'contemporary Pakistani' because most of IVC area is under Pakistan is like saying that Most of Russians are Asians because most of Russia falls under Asia. But we all know that most of Russians lives in European side of Russia. So majority of them are Europeans. IVC can be called a Northern Subcontinental Civilization instead of just Pakistani Civilization. Just like Russia is called Eurasian country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indus_Valley_Civilisation_sites

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Those sited were not established due to expansion. They were established when the whole IVC was established. They are their since the beginning of IVC. You can see it even in this video. You really need to put down others to feel superior?? Lol. There are more IVC sites in India then in Pakistan. Which mean most of IVC people lived in India instead of Pakistan. Saying that Most of IVC people were so called 'contemporary Pakistani' because most of IVC area is under Pakistan is like saying that Most of Russians are Asians because most of Russia falls under Asia. But we all know that most of Russians lives in European side of Russia. So majority of them are Europeans. IVC can be called a Northern Subcontinental Civilization instead of just Pakistani Civilization. Just like Russia is called Eurasian country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indus_Valley_Civilisation_sites

There is a clear evolution of IVC starting from "western" banks of Indus river with Mehrgarh in Baluchistan considered to the be the first human settlement. It then moved to the "eastern" banks with the likes of Mohengodaro , harrapa and other sites appearing including the ones which are now in present day north western India. To say they all appeared at the same time is frankly speaking, is bordering between ignorance and idiocy. There is a clear expansion of Indus going both east towards what is now India and west towards what is now Iran, Afghanistan and Southern Turkmenistan. In nutshell, Pakistan was the heartland, whereas north west India, Iran and Afghanistan were the hinterlands. Going furthest away from Indus river to the known IVC site both in east and west direction, the land between, is the domain of the Indus, by default.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

There is a clear evolution of IVC starting from "western" banks of Indus river with Mehrgarh in Baluchistan considered to the be the first human settlement. It then moved to the "eastern" banks with the likes of Mohengodaro , harrapa and other sites appearing including the ones which are now in present day north western India. To say they all appeared at the same time is frankly speaking, is bordering between ignorance and idiocy. There is a clear expansion of Indus going both east towards what is now India and west towards what is now Iran, Afghanistan and Southern Turkmenistan. In nutshell, Pakistan was the heartland, whereas north west India, Iran and Afghanistan were the hinterlands. Going furthest away from Indus river to the known IVC site both in east and west direction, the land between, is the domain of the Indus, by default.

So it means that IVC people of the Mehrgarh moved to Northwest India. Which means present Day NWI and NI people are of same stock as IVC. Now, according to Pakistanis, No Indian have connection with IVC, So no Indian should claim IVC. But this is clearly not the case. Right?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

So it means that IVC people of the Mehrgarh moved to Northwest India. Which means present Day NWI and NI people are of same stock as IVC. Now, according to Pakistanis, No Indian have connection with IVC, So no Indian should claim IVC. But this is not clearly the case. Right?

They didnt move, they expanded and created new settlements and outposts as their numbers and empire grew.

You wont hear the Syrians, Jordanians and Israelis laying claim to Egyptian civilization do you? even though their lands were for thousands of years part of Egyptian civilization, governed by the people of Nile. Ofcourse there are people who are now in present day India who can be classed as Childern of Indus, like Sikhs, but they are the periphery , not really the original people of Indus. That is the sole domain of Pakistanis.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

They didnt move, they expanded and created new settlements and outposts as their numbers and empire grew.

You wont hear the Syrians, Jordanians and Israelis laying claim to Egyptian civilization do you? even though their lands were for thousands of years part of Egyptian civilization, governed by the people of Nile. Ofcourse there are people who are now in present day India who can be classed as Childern of Indus, like Sikhs, but they are the periphery , not really the original people of Indus. That is the sole domain of Pakistanis.

Ohhhhh, so people having same genetics are not same and have less claims on their heritage as compared to their relatives just because they live on the edge of the territory. [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
Don't forget people in India have IVC ancestory and From Punjab to Haryana, Rajasthan to Gujarat, there are IVC sites. In fact more IVC sites than Pakistan. You have no ******* right to call others lesser sons of Indus.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Ohhhhh, so people having same genetics are not same and have less claims on their heritage as their relatives just because they live on the edge of the territory. [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
Don't forget people in India have IVC ancestory and From Punjab to Haryana, Rajasthan to Gujarat, there are IVC sites. In fact more IVC sites than Pakistan. You have no ******* right to call others lesser sons of Indus.

Without giving allegiance to motherland you are claiming association with IVC? Pakistan is the motherland , you cannot argue with the archeology. Its there right infront of everyone. My example of Syria, Jordan and Israel and their relation with Egyptian civilization holds. If Egyptians ruled their lands for thousands of years and build their own infra there, doesnt make Syrians, Jordanians and Isrealies , the custodians of Egyptian civilization.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

Without giving allegiance to motherland you are claiming association with IVC? Pakistan is the motherland , you cannot argue with the archeology. Its there right infront of everyone. My example of Syria, Jordan and Israel and their relation with Egyptian civilization holds. If Egyptians ruled their lands for thousands of years and build their own infra there, doesnt make Syrians, Jordanians and Isrealies , the custodians of Egyptian civilization.

Pakistan is motherland???? There are no history written text that says so. If IVC really started at Mehrgarh, then by your logic, people from Baluchistan, Eastern region of Pak Punjab, Sindh, Northern part of Pakistan have no link with Indus because other parts of IVC were just expansion. Do you know why you are saying that Pakistan is motherland??? just because sites like Mohenjo-Daro were discovered first. But the Largest city of IVC is situated in Haryana, India. IVC is Classified as the area which are irrigated by Indus river and its tributaries of Indus and that time, Sarasvati and Ghaggar-Hakra rivers were also tributaries of Indus. Pakistan is a concept and IVC is a Civilization and Culture. I don't need to show love for Pakistan to show love to IVC and claim my own heritage. You are as pathetic as your Logic.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1) The depictions by Curtius, Justin, Diodorus, Arrian and Plutarch are quite consistent and reliable in concluding that Alexander was defeated by Porus and had to make a treaty with him to
save his and his soldiers` lives. He was a broken man at his return from his mis-adventures.

The depictions by Curtius, Justin, Diodorus, Arrian and Plutarch are precisely the ones that have led to a general agreement by academics other than scholars in residence in PDF to conclude that Alexander won over Porus, and retained sufficient military strength to battle his way down the Indus Valley in a series of sanguinary sieges, each being fought to the death by the defendants.

That he was a broken man on his return is to be attributed not to military defeat or to the attrition due to battle but to the ravages of the passage along the Makran desert to Babylon, which is uniformly described as an ordeal as severe as the passage of the Grand Army on its return from Moscow. The expedition still had the energy left to found the city of Alexandria Arachosia, which some of these resident scholars in PDF might recognise by their modern names. Some achievements for a broken man.

2) Mr E.A.W. Badge has included an account of "The Life and Exploits of Alexander" where he writes inter alia the following:

"In the battle of Jhelum a large majority of Alexander`s cavalry was killed. Alexander realized that if he were to continue fighting he would be completely ruined. He requested Porus to stop fighting. Porus was true to traditions and did not kill the surrendered enemy. After this both signed treaty, Alexander then helped him in annexing other territories to his kingdom".

Mr Badge further writes that the soldiers of Alexander were grief-stricken and they began to bewail the loss of their compatriots. They threw off their weapons. They expressed their strong desire to
surrender. They had no desire to fight. Alexander asked them to give up fighting and himself said,
"Porus, please pardon me. I have realized your bravery and strength. Now I cannot bear these agonies. WIth a sad heart I am planning to put an end to my life. I do not desire that my soldiers should also be ruined like me. I am that culprit who has thrust them into the jaw of death. It
does not become a king to thrust his soldiers into the jaws of death."

LOL.

So now, setting aside the original sources cited, the grand assembly of Curtius, Justin, Diodorus, Arrian and Plutarch, we stumble into

• the peculiar, very Indian phraseology of
• an Indian revisionist account of
• a European professor's translation of
• one of the Alexander Romances.

Wait for the rest of the story.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Pakistan is motherland???? There are no history written text that says so. If IVC really started at Mehrgarh, then by your logic, people from Baluchistan, Eastern region of Pak Punjab, Sindh, Northern part of Pakistan have no link with Indus because other parts of IVC were just expansion. Do you know why you are saying that Pakistan is motherland??? just because sites like Mohenjo-Daro were discovered first. But the Largest city of IVC is situated in Haryana, India. IVC is Classified as the area which are irrigated by Indus river and its tributaries of Indus and that time, Sarasvati and Ghaggar-Hakra rivers were also tributaries of Indus. Pakistan is a concept and IVC is a Civilization and Culture. I don't need to show love for Pakistan to show love to IVC and claim my own heritage. You are as pathetic as your Logic.

Your rants do not stand against the archeological facts. Mehrgarh, Mohengodaro, Harrapa, they are all within immediate Indus river basin. Indus flows through the heart of Pakistan. Hell, our map even follow the flow of Indus. If the archeological proven expansion of IVC, originating from Merhrgarh going in all directions, is not going through your thick skull, I cant really help you I am afraid.

We in Pakistan owe Indus as its custodian by Geography, sons of soil, the original people. You on the other hands, your claims are only by association. Your mythical Srasvati river RSS bullshit is really a holding by straws kind of argument. Pakistan is the governing unit which the people of Indus refer to in this time and age, their own prerogative. Just like Egypt was not called "Egypt" thousands of years ago, neither they spoke Arabic or classed as Arabs, yet even today, the people of Nile basin are the custodian of their civilization, Pakistanis in similar fashion are the original custodian of our civilization, the Indus.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Pakistan is motherland???? There are no history written text that says so. If IVC really started at Mehrgarh, then by your logic, people from Baluchistan, Eastern region of Pak Punjab, Sindh, Northern part of Pakistan have no link with Indus because other parts of IVC were just expansion. Do you know why you are saying that Pakistan is motherland??? just because sites like Mohenjo-Daro were discovered first. But the Largest city of IVC is situated in Haryana, India. IVC is Classified as the area which are irrigated by Indus river and its tributaries of Indus and that time, Sarasvati and Ghaggar-Hakra rivers were also tributaries of Indus. Pakistan is a concept and IVC is a Civilization and Culture. I don't need to show love for Pakistan to show love to IVC and claim my own heritage. You are as pathetic as your Logic.

bullshit.

India has nothing to do with IVC. It is Pakistan which is the heir to IVC civilziation.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

Your rants do not stand against the archeological facts. Mehrgarh, Mohengodaro, Harrapa, they are all within immediate Indus river basin. Indus flows through the heart of Pakistan. Hell, our map even follow the flow of Indus. If the archeological proven expansion of IVC, originating from Merhrgarh going in all directions, is not going through your thick skull, I cant really help you I am afraid.

We in Pakistan owe Indus as its custodian by Geography, sons of soil, the original people. You on the other hands, your claims are only by association. Your mythical Srasvati river RSS bullshit is really a holding by straws kind of argument. Pakistan is the governing unit which the people of Indus refer to in this time and age, their own prerogative. Just like Egypt was not called "Egypt" thousands of years ago, neither they spoke Arabic or classed as Arabs, yet even today, the people of Nile basin are the custodian of their civilization, Pakistanis in similar fashion are the original custodian of our civilization, the Indus.

Sadly, You didn't got what I wanted to say. I think a few good reads of my comments over and over again will make you realise what I was saying. RSS is a Hindu organization and I am not a Hindu. About Saraswati, it has been proved by archeologists that Saraswati was one of the tributaries of Indus. So until you agree with archeologists that IVC was started in Mehrgarh, you can't disagree that Saraswati was a tributary of Indus because it is an archeological fact. I never said Pakistanis have no relation with Indus. But saying NW Indians and N Indians have no relation with Indus is utter Foolishness. At last I would like to remind you again, that India have more IVC sites that Pak, and the Largest city of IVC lies in India.

 

[Haryanvi Jat]

bullshit.

India has nothing to do with IVC. It is Pakistan which is the heir to IVC civilziation.

I suggest you to look at this list and then comment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indus_Valley_Civilisation_sites

 

[MultaniGuy]

Sadly, You didn't got what I wanted to say. I think a few good reads of my comments over and over again will make you realise what I was saying. RSS is a Hindu organization and I am not a Hindu. About Saraswati, it has been proved by archeologists that Saraswati was one of the tributaries of Indus. So until you agree with archeologists that IVC was started in Mehrgarh, you can't disagree that Saraswati was a tributary of Indus because it is an archeological fact. I never said Pakistanis have no relation with Indus. But saying NW Indians and N Indians have no relation with Indus is utter Foolishness. At last I would like to remind you again, that India have more IVC sites that Pak, and the Largest city of IVC lies in India.

LOL WHAT BULLSHIT.

India has more IVC sites than Pakistan? What nonsense. Do you want to get banned?

It is Pakistan that has way more IVC sites than India !

Go check the IVC map on Wikipedia.