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Why is India so dirty?

GamoAccu

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Having lived in US for last 6 years and having traveled to many countries during my days in the Indian Navy I had always wondered – Why is India so dirty? Each time I assumed that it is just a matter of time. Once the economy grows and there is prosperity all around these things will follow and very soon we will look like one of those spic-and-span European countries or something like Singapore or Japan.

My recent visit to India followed by a visit to Singapore brought this question to the fore again – Why is dirt all pervasive in India? This problem is not limited to the slums or the ghettos, even the new Bengaluru airport is not spared. Just walk around and you will spot filth easily, it much less but there nevertheless. There is a huge amount of human capital and investment made to maintain the airport in a somewhat clean state. Taken that support off and I am sure the airport will resemble a garbage dump very soon. Why is this problem so endemic? What happened to Swach Bharat? Is population or education the problem? If so then why are more densely populated countries like Singapore or Japan not dirty? The number of Indians living in developed countries in increasing every year – thousands live amongst the local population in these countries and take part in maintaining these cities clean. How come the same set of people can’t keep our own country clean?

I think there are three fundamental problems. First is the attitude – ‘cleaning is somebody else’s job’. I refer primarily to the cleaning of the toilets or common areas here. However, cleaning of other areas can also be included in most cases. This thought process has it’s roots in the class or the caste system, outlawed decades ago, but prevalent all around. Cleaning is the job of the ‘Safaiwalas/ sweepers/ maids/ servants’. Majority of the middle class households have servants who take care of cleaning. They are considered lower ‘class’ and treated as such. I remember that in my home we had a separate cup and plate for the servants, they sit on the floor and use a backdoor. Even now in ‘educated high class apartment societies’ there are discussions on why servants should not be using the main elevators and a toilet be designated for their use. I would request my Indian friends to read the book or see the movie ‘Help’ on how in the 1950s US the African-American maids were treated by their white masters. In India we treat our help even worse well into the 21st century. Even in the most egalitarian society like the Military the job of ‘safai’ is for a designated few. In the Indian Navy, the job of cleaning all the toilets rests on the shoulders of the ‘Topass’ branch. I have witnessed an officer berating a young recruit on why he had joined the Topass branch. Apparently, the young sailor was from an upper class and the officer was not happy with him cleaning the toilets. But he was perfectly fine with others sailors of the branch doing it.

Second – is an extension of first and is due to the wide prevalence of ‘Patriarchy’ in the Indian society. Only 10% of working age Indian women are employed[1] and the remaining are either stay at home moms or housewives. Traditionally they have the assumed role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of the house. Take a pause and recall whose job it is to clean and cook in your house or your parent’s home or your grand parent’s home. Invariably it is the women. They have done an outstanding job of keeping their homes clean but have done a great disservice to the nation by not sharing the responsibility with their husband/ children. The men never learn how to clean and keep looking for a wife who will do all the cleaning.

Third – is the sense of ‘Belonging to the Community’. If you visit any home in India you will notice how clean it is on the inside. We take great pride in the upkeep of our homes. However, just step outside in the neighborhood and see the difference. We will throw trash on the road but never in our homes. As soon as one steps outside, somehow, the rules change completely. My hypothesis is that this character trait is indicative of ‘selfish’ nature. We are very possessive of what is “mine” and we don’t perceive public assets as mine. I am perfectly ok to defecate in the open but not even spill anything in my house. Where do we learn this? Are we teaching this to our children and in our schools? For a long time I appropriated this behavior to the scarcity of resources and thus we do not have the luxury to think about our surroundings. But the same holds true for densely populated countries like Singapore, Japan etc. We simply never learn or teach our kids about how to ‘belong to a community’. We teach our children to be very selfish and focus on what is best for them and not for all. This also explains why we drive the way we do – optimize for ourselves and not for the group.

Having served in the Military, for a long time I believed that stronger laws and stricter enforcement is the way to bring about the change we want to see. I have now grown wiser and realized that enforcement mechanisms have a shelf life with limited effectiveness. Also it is not all bad news. When we take the same set of people and place them in a community that does not include these issues, we are able to adapt and, in many instances, thrive. Proof is the millions of Indians living in Europe and US and contributing positively to their respective communities. We need to start with our children and instill the virtues of equality and community living to break this cycle to build a country for the future.


 
Because it's overpopulated. But I think Bangladesh currently stands as the dirtiest and overcrowded country, although Bharat is not far behind.

@nahtanbob which country would you pick as the dirtier one?
 
Having lived in US for last 6 years and having traveled to many countries during my days in the Indian Navy I had always wondered – Why is India so dirty? Each time I assumed that it is just a matter of time. Once the economy grows and there is prosperity all around these things will follow and very soon we will look like one of those spic-and-span European countries or something like Singapore or Japan.

My recent visit to India followed by a visit to Singapore brought this question to the fore again – Why is dirt all pervasive in India? This problem is not limited to the slums or the ghettos, even the new Bengaluru airport is not spared. Just walk around and you will spot filth easily, it much less but there nevertheless. There is a huge amount of human capital and investment made to maintain the airport in a somewhat clean state. Taken that support off and I am sure the airport will resemble a garbage dump very soon. Why is this problem so endemic? What happened to Swach Bharat? Is population or education the problem? If so then why are more densely populated countries like Singapore or Japan not dirty? The number of Indians living in developed countries in increasing every year – thousands live amongst the local population in these countries and take part in maintaining these cities clean. How come the same set of people can’t keep our own country clean?

I think there are three fundamental problems. First is the attitude – ‘cleaning is somebody else’s job’. I refer primarily to the cleaning of the toilets or common areas here. However, cleaning of other areas can also be included in most cases. This thought process has it’s roots in the class or the caste system, outlawed decades ago, but prevalent all around. Cleaning is the job of the ‘Safaiwalas/ sweepers/ maids/ servants’. Majority of the middle class households have servants who take care of cleaning. They are considered lower ‘class’ and treated as such. I remember that in my home we had a separate cup and plate for the servants, they sit on the floor and use a backdoor. Even now in ‘educated high class apartment societies’ there are discussions on why servants should not be using the main elevators and a toilet be designated for their use. I would request my Indian friends to read the book or see the movie ‘Help’ on how in the 1950s US the African-American maids were treated by their white masters. In India we treat our help even worse well into the 21st century. Even in the most egalitarian society like the Military the job of ‘safai’ is for a designated few. In the Indian Navy, the job of cleaning all the toilets rests on the shoulders of the ‘Topass’ branch. I have witnessed an officer berating a young recruit on why he had joined the Topass branch. Apparently, the young sailor was from an upper class and the officer was not happy with him cleaning the toilets. But he was perfectly fine with others sailors of the branch doing it.

Second – is an extension of first and is due to the wide prevalence of ‘Patriarchy’ in the Indian society. Only 10% of working age Indian women are employed[1] and the remaining are either stay at home moms or housewives. Traditionally they have the assumed role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of the house. Take a pause and recall whose job it is to clean and cook in your house or your parent’s home or your grand parent’s home. Invariably it is the women. They have done an outstanding job of keeping their homes clean but have done a great disservice to the nation by not sharing the responsibility with their husband/ children. The men never learn how to clean and keep looking for a wife who will do all the cleaning.

Third – is the sense of ‘Belonging to the Community’. If you visit any home in India you will notice how clean it is on the inside. We take great pride in the upkeep of our homes. However, just step outside in the neighborhood and see the difference. We will throw trash on the road but never in our homes. As soon as one steps outside, somehow, the rules change completely. My hypothesis is that this character trait is indicative of ‘selfish’ nature. We are very possessive of what is “mine” and we don’t perceive public assets as mine. I am perfectly ok to defecate in the open but not even spill anything in my house. Where do we learn this? Are we teaching this to our children and in our schools? For a long time I appropriated this behavior to the scarcity of resources and thus we do not have the luxury to think about our surroundings. But the same holds true for densely populated countries like Singapore, Japan etc. We simply never learn or teach our kids about how to ‘belong to a community’. We teach our children to be very selfish and focus on what is best for them and not for all. This also explains why we drive the way we do – optimize for ourselves and not for the group.

Having served in the Military, for a long time I believed that stronger laws and stricter enforcement is the way to bring about the change we want to see. I have now grown wiser and realized that enforcement mechanisms have a shelf life with limited effectiveness. Also it is not all bad news. When we take the same set of people and place them in a community that does not include these issues, we are able to adapt and, in many instances, thrive. Proof is the millions of Indians living in Europe and US and contributing positively to their respective communities. We need to start with our children and instill the virtues of equality and community living to break this cycle to build a country for the future.


Well when you shit on the streets, India is bound to be dirty. :disagree:
 
Sad state of affairs shows only depression in life

does they don't know - the status of pakistan? living style of south Asians .

Author is tweeted on Aug, 2023.and comparing with USA, Singapore etc.

And depressed people are started jumping, but they don't know the reality that such sountries already considered one of the cleanest cities and countries.

https://www.wionews.com/photos/in-pics-top-cleanest-cities-in-the-world-605559

since the south asian mentality is that cleaning is someone else job. It gets started at home where only person responsible for cleaning is Mother. When you go outside, it's some sweeper's job to clean the place and not yours.

With such a mentality, nothing will be changed in south Aisa in the future.

There was similar thread about Pakistan - https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/why-is-pakistan-so-dirty.360886/

I should also mention that I always try to tidy other locations and that I do obey the rules. Even when I have chocolates, I keep the covers in my pocket if there isn't a dustbin around. My wife doesn't even follow my methods because she doesn't like it.

you can't force other people to keep the cities clean and maintained. It comes from your heart.
 
Sad state of affairs shows only depression in life

does they don't know - the status of pakistan? living style of south Asians .

Author is tweeted on Aug, 2023.and comparing with USA, Singapore etc.

And depressed people are started jumping, but they don't know the reality that such sountries already considered one of the cleanest cities and countries.

https://www.wionews.com/photos/in-pics-top-cleanest-cities-in-the-world-605559

since the south asian mentality is that cleaning is someone else job. It gets started at home where only person responsible for cleaning is Mother. When you go outside, it's some sweeper's job to clean the place and not yours.

With such a mentality, nothing will be changed in south Aisa in the future.

There was similar thread about Pakistan - https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/why-is-pakistan-so-dirty.360886/

I should also mention that I always try to tidy other locations and that I do obey the rules. Even when I have chocolates, I keep the covers in my pocket if there isn't a dustbin around. My wife doesn't even follow my methods because she doesn't like it.

you can't force other people to keep the cities clean and maintained. It comes from your heart.
Please dont drag Pakistan to defend Indian dirtiness
 
yamunadirty.jpg

burigangachange.jpg
 
Because it's overpopulated. But I think Bangladesh currently stands as the dirtiest and overcrowded country, although Bharat is not far behind.

@nahtanbob which country would you pick as the dirtier one?

India would be dirtier than Bangladesh. Bangladesh has lots of water to flush out the stuff
 
Having lived in US for last 6 years and having traveled to many countries during my days in the Indian Navy I had always wondered – Why is India so dirty? Each time I assumed that it is just a matter of time. Once the economy grows and there is prosperity all around these things will follow and very soon we will look like one of those spic-and-span European countries or something like Singapore or Japan.

My recent visit to India followed by a visit to Singapore brought this question to the fore again – Why is dirt all pervasive in India? This problem is not limited to the slums or the ghettos, even the new Bengaluru airport is not spared. Just walk around and you will spot filth easily, it much less but there nevertheless. There is a huge amount of human capital and investment made to maintain the airport in a somewhat clean state. Taken that support off and I am sure the airport will resemble a garbage dump very soon. Why is this problem so endemic? What happened to Swach Bharat? Is population or education the problem? If so then why are more densely populated countries like Singapore or Japan not dirty? The number of Indians living in developed countries in increasing every year – thousands live amongst the local population in these countries and take part in maintaining these cities clean. How come the same set of people can’t keep our own country clean?

I think there are three fundamental problems. First is the attitude – ‘cleaning is somebody else’s job’. I refer primarily to the cleaning of the toilets or common areas here. However, cleaning of other areas can also be included in most cases. This thought process has it’s roots in the class or the caste system, outlawed decades ago, but prevalent all around. Cleaning is the job of the ‘Safaiwalas/ sweepers/ maids/ servants’. Majority of the middle class households have servants who take care of cleaning. They are considered lower ‘class’ and treated as such. I remember that in my home we had a separate cup and plate for the servants, they sit on the floor and use a backdoor. Even now in ‘educated high class apartment societies’ there are discussions on why servants should not be using the main elevators and a toilet be designated for their use. I would request my Indian friends to read the book or see the movie ‘Help’ on how in the 1950s US the African-American maids were treated by their white masters. In India we treat our help even worse well into the 21st century. Even in the most egalitarian society like the Military the job of ‘safai’ is for a designated few. In the Indian Navy, the job of cleaning all the toilets rests on the shoulders of the ‘Topass’ branch. I have witnessed an officer berating a young recruit on why he had joined the Topass branch. Apparently, the young sailor was from an upper class and the officer was not happy with him cleaning the toilets. But he was perfectly fine with others sailors of the branch doing it.

Second – is an extension of first and is due to the wide prevalence of ‘Patriarchy’ in the Indian society. Only 10% of working age Indian women are employed[1] and the remaining are either stay at home moms or housewives. Traditionally they have the assumed role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of the house. Take a pause and recall whose job it is to clean and cook in your house or your parent’s home or your grand parent’s home. Invariably it is the women. They have done an outstanding job of keeping their homes clean but have done a great disservice to the nation by not sharing the responsibility with their husband/ children. The men never learn how to clean and keep looking for a wife who will do all the cleaning.

Third – is the sense of ‘Belonging to the Community’. If you visit any home in India you will notice how clean it is on the inside. We take great pride in the upkeep of our homes. However, just step outside in the neighborhood and see the difference. We will throw trash on the road but never in our homes. As soon as one steps outside, somehow, the rules change completely. My hypothesis is that this character trait is indicative of ‘selfish’ nature. We are very possessive of what is “mine” and we don’t perceive public assets as mine. I am perfectly ok to defecate in the open but not even spill anything in my house. Where do we learn this? Are we teaching this to our children and in our schools? For a long time I appropriated this behavior to the scarcity of resources and thus we do not have the luxury to think about our surroundings. But the same holds true for densely populated countries like Singapore, Japan etc. We simply never learn or teach our kids about how to ‘belong to a community’. We teach our children to be very selfish and focus on what is best for them and not for all. This also explains why we drive the way we do – optimize for ourselves and not for the group.

Having served in the Military, for a long time I believed that stronger laws and stricter enforcement is the way to bring about the change we want to see. I have now grown wiser and realized that enforcement mechanisms have a shelf life with limited effectiveness. Also it is not all bad news. When we take the same set of people and place them in a community that does not include these issues, we are able to adapt and, in many instances, thrive. Proof is the millions of Indians living in Europe and US and contributing positively to their respective communities. We need to start with our children and instill the virtues of equality and community living to break this cycle to build a country for the future.


Brown mean dirty. India Bangladesh Nepal Sri Lanka...we are dirty and we are proud of it.
 
people in this region are habitually dirty, not just India.

yes, they are different kind of dirty. i don't understand why India think with their massive population they are a power. it is not, rather it is major cause of this mess. control the population and you'll be fine with everything.
having a robust and booming economy, India is set to gain its goals. but old habits don't die easy. they can afford better education for everyone but priorities are wrong like Pakistan although different. otherwise Modi doesn't have to hide slums behind painted walls and hoardings during G20 summit or any event.

over population is always a mess, it can never be a blessing.
 
people in this region are habitually dirty, not just India.

yes, they are different kind of dirty. i don't understand why India think with their massive population they are a power. it is not, rather it is major cause of this mess. control the population and you'll be fine with everything.
having a robust and booming economy, India is set to gain its goals. but old habits don't die easy. they can afford better education for everyone but priorities are wrong like Pakistan although different. otherwise Modi doesn't have to hide slums behind painted walls and hoardings during G20 summit or any event.

over population is always a mess, it can never be a blessing.

Eastern China, Japan, Western Europe have high population densities
 
Okay, but why?

You Afraid you see yourself on mirror?

If you throw dirts on others, expect some dirts on you as well if seating on the same table.
give your own arguments for country.
1 Pakistani cities are not as densly populated as Indian ones
2 Indians take a pride on al most every thing over Pakistan so take your pride alone here as well.
3 if you a weakness, accept it and correct it. donot try to justify by pointing on other that they are also more or less same dirty.
 
give your own arguments for country.
1 Pakistani cities are not as densly populated as Indian ones
2 Indians take a pride on al most every thing over Pakistan so take your pride alone here as well.
3 if you a weakness, accept it and correct it. donot try to justify by pointing on other that they are also more or less same dirty.

Are you sure???

I am not justifying anyone.. Read my comments again.

 
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India would be dirtier than Bangladesh. Bangladesh has lots of water to flush out the stuff

Bangladesh is more dense than India. Currently the most polluted country in terms of density. Second most is probably India.

people in this region are habitually dirty, not just India.

yes, they are different kind of dirty. i don't understand why India think with their massive population they are a power. it is not, rather it is major cause of this mess. control the population and you'll be fine with everything.
having a robust and booming economy, India is set to gain its goals. but old habits don't die easy. they can afford better education for everyone but priorities are wrong like Pakistan although different. otherwise Modi doesn't have to hide slums behind painted walls and hoardings during G20 summit or any event.

over population is always a mess, it can never be a blessing.

Exactly. The best economies are the one that are sustainable and ecologically friendly like Nordic countries or New Zealand.

But really their climates determine their population size.
 
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