Yellow Sea no place for US carrier

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

Our carriers have gone everywhere. We are in International waters. What is it that is spooking them this time?

Probably it is too close to China's capital region - Beijing. If it is far off somewhere like Hongkong, then they probably won't care much. Imaging all the bureaucrats waking up and finding a dozen thugs, grinning slyly picking their glittering gold teeth, armed with bazookas and chain guns walking routinely on the pavement between their front door and their neighbour's front door...

It scares the hell out of them! And when they actually want to call the police, urh... wait, those thugs are in police uniforms...

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

If our warships were in the gulf of mexico, the US would be infuriated as well. At this sensitive time it is very inappropriate and dangerous to send a carrier to this area.

Mate, chill up, no need to worry. It would be a unique opportunity for the Chinese military to "survey" USA carrier groups up close and personal, for their operations and communications etc., and may actually learn something from the USA for China's own future carrier program operations.

China's electronics warfare system has geared up massively compared to 1994, they're no longer generations behind. While offensive capabilities may not yet reach USA's full strength, but when it is only 1 carrier group, they are out-numbered by at least a factor of 5+ in terms of combat/strike plane numbers in the same league (i.e. Su-30/J-11/J-10 vs F/A-18CD/EF). Not to mention the insanely number of mobile missile launchers/vehicles trained at the carrier group.

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

Like I said before, for those big boys, there are many other means to flex their muscles, to show off, attract chicks or whatever.

And when they DO want to give displeasure, just name a few on a non-exhaustive list:

- donate some special "humanitarian aid" to "Ta1iban", which will make USA soldiers work harder...
- veto some sanctions on certain middle-east country to show unhappiness...
- grab some resources in USA's backyard - south America, take over a few energy/mining companies...
- restrict rare-earth mineral export which makes essential parts of missiles and satellites, China has 97% of the world’s supply anyway...
- influence certain central Asia countries to close off US bases, reduce its sphere of influence...
- sell the US treasury bonds and depreciates the currency RMB Yuan, which surely will drive Dow Jones Indexes plunging, rub salts on wounds for a shaky economy is far worse than disposing a few hundred soldiers, instead hundreds of millions will get affected in that way.

Of course these actions will assure some swift reactions, but hey, options are there to be explored. Things need to be done when they are NEED to be done. Somehow reminds me of certain real-time strategy games, so many paths to choose from, however, this time, real people and real lives are on stake here.

 

[Thomas]

Hence we have the Russian spy incident now, those spies were under surveillance for quite a long time, the timing to expose them now, shows some interesting ideas.

There are many other ways to show displeasure without resorting to military actions - in this case a couple of old cold-war era Ruskie warships without much offensive capabilities just does not warrant the measures for Uncle Sam to waste his resources on. To expose a few high profile spies to piss off the Russians is just about right for a proportional response.

However, if the Russians were sending a large fleet of nuclear aircraft cruisers/submarines (with cruise missile capability to strike deep into the USA's soil) to exercise a hundred miles off New York habour, now THAT will set off a higher pitch alarm bell.

If China wants to send a fleet to the Gulf of Mexico then by all means send it. There have been Russian war ships there before and you didn't hear panic in the streets of America. Just as you don't hear panic in the streets of Moscow when NATO sends ships to the Black Sea. The fact is that South Korea is an Allie. And if the U.S. and South Korea wants to hold exercises in the South China Sea then it is their right to. If you want to dial down tensions then put a leash on your Schizophrenic Allie North Korea. If a war starts it will only be becuase of the Norths crazy actions which China seems to be unable or unwilling stop.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Like I said before, for those big boys, there are many other means to flex their muscles, to show off, attract chicks or whatever.

And when they DO want to give displeasure, just name a few on a non-exhaustive list:

- donate some special "humanitarian aid" to "Ta1iban", which will make USA soldiers work harder...
- veto some sanctions on certain middle-east country to show unhappiness...
- grab some resources in USA's backyard - south America, take over a few energy/mining companies...
- restrict rare-earth mineral export which makes essential parts of missiles and satellites, China has 97% of the world’s supply anyway...
- influence certain central Asia countries to close off US bases, reduce its sphere of influence...
- sell the US treasury bonds and depreciates the currency RMB Yuan, which surely will drive Dow Jones Indexes plunging, rub salts on wounds for a shaky economy is far worse than disposing a few hundred soldiers, instead hundreds of millions will get affected in that way.

Of course these actions will assure some swift reactions, but hey, options are there to be explored. Things need to be done when they are NEED to be done. Somehow reminds me of certain real-time strategy games, so many paths to choose from, however, this time, real people and real lives are on stake here.

Guess that could work both ways, Recognise the Dala Lama as the offical goverment of Tibet.

More military aid to Taiwan

Restrict more technology to China

Exclude China from the WTO.

Surround China with an Asian verson of NATO

More broadcasts by Voice of America into china advocating religious freedom, democracy, pointing out how violations of human rights such as censorship.

China Human Rights

Amnesty International has documented widespread human rights violations in China. An estimated 500,000 people are currently enduring punitive detention without charge or trial, and millions are unable to access the legal system to seek redress for their grievances. Harassment, surveillance, house arrest, and imprisonment of human rights defenders are on the rise, and censorship of the Internet and other media has grown. Repression of minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians, and of Falun Gong practitioners and Christians who practice their religion outside state-sanctioned churches continues. While the recent reinstatement of Supreme People's Court review of death penalty cases may result in lower numbers of executions, China remains the leading executioner in the world

Amnesty International USA - Protect Human Rights

There is an old saying those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[lhuang]

Why oh why do we have to bait the US?

Is 15 years such a long time to wait?

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Why oh why do we have to bait the US?

Is 15 years such a long time to wait?

Its due to jealously, envy, by a county that could not make it as communist and are now half capitalist which may tear itself apart. If my percapita income was ten percent of the USA I would be whineing too.

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

Guess that could work both ways, Recognise the Dala Lama as the offical goverment of Tibet.

More military aid to Taiwan

Restrict more technology to China

Exclude China from the WTO.

Surround China with an Asian verson of NATO

More broadcasts by Voice of America into china advocating religious freedom, democracy, pointing out how violations of human rights such as censorship.

China Human Rights

LOL, that's how wars start. Though seems pretty feeble and hypocritical attempts to me.

Open your eyes dude, I would think USA is the last place that you would want to quote Human rights, as you just killed/maimed hundreds of thousands civilians (even a million on certain sources) in other countries during the last ten years.

Guess they don't get the rights as they are already dead, their lives being taken by you! But then again the US citizens get to live happily by sucking the blood out of other parts of the world, it's only natural for you to defend your ways of life, I understand.

Media propaganda and Amnesty International means very little to the ordinary Chinese people. Same applies to UK/US/Israeli/Russian, big boys just don't give a toss.

The Chinese been bombarded with propaganda all these years - foreign and domestic, and have acquired certain immunity. Real life problems matter much more, jobs/housing/health/education, which USA can't even solve for its own, let alone some other countries. And the current on-going wars aren't helping the US image overseas, thus the propaganda seems hollow to the most of them.

Plus, lives in China isn't bad at all in many places, many go out to restaurant/bar/disco to dine a few times a week, holidays travelling a few times a year, big fat bonus cheques at the Lunar new year. On the extreme side, even brothels/massage/spa bar are better, more eye-pleasing as I was told, all naturals, no silicons no fakes no obesity, unlike US... lol

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

As for taiwan issue, give military aid to Taiwan all they want, that's nothing new. Giving taiwan too much military ware too soon, risking a full out war, even the taiwanese doesn't want the thresh-hold to be crossed, which will endanger their peaceful lives.

It actually serves USA better interests to maintain the status quo on taiwan. Anything kept in proportion is fine, just to keep China on her toes, sometimes, even I think the Chinese government has an over-sized ego that need to be checked from time to time, or for better, a new government led by a new political party.

The difference is, the Chinese are keeping a cool head, and have a clear vision for the future; they worked their way up and know their limits, and worked their socks off to achieve better lives. If one day the political structure needs to be changed, so be it. It will do the ordinary folks some good.

In the mean time, the USA are borrowing to a decline, they've been spoiled too long on virtual economy, fooled by the Wall streets tycoons, shielded by the so-called democratic media, which owned by the tycoons. The system was so good that it could't go wrong, right? It was borrow, borrow, get credits all the way. As there's no outside counter-balance to keep check on the USA, even people want to, now THAT is a threat to the world. If one country gets too powerful for its own good, well, generally bad things happen to it, historically.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Well the people in China are not going to know much. According to The watchdog group Reporters without Borders ranked China 168 out of 175 countries in its 2010 worldwide index of press freedom. The Chinese people are lot like mushroom,, keep in the dark and fed manure. You have to wonder what the Chinese Goverment is so afraid of, and what is going to happen if the Chinese People find out.

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

Well the people in China are not going to know much. According to The watchdog group Reporters without Borders ranked China 168 out of 175 countries in its 2010 worldwide index of press freedom. The Chinese people are lot like mushroom,, keep in the dark and fed manure. You have to wonder what the Chinese Goverment is so afraid of, and what is going to happen if the Chinese People find out.

Yet again another figure from another freedom of speech site, which doesn't even go deep into China and speaks to the locals, they just assumed due to the state censorship, Chinese knows little. That's a misconception, the Chinese actually know far more than you think they know.

They are determined to get around censorship obstacles when they actually WANT to know the truth. They are aware that they were misled by the the state media and they knew they were lied to, and that alone drives them to seek real information. Unlike many people in the west, because we take free information for granted, there is NO drive, we just aren't on guard any more, if the media mislead us, we normally will not notice. Pity that we have these vast free information floating around, but few of us actually take time to digest what are real and what aren't, which somehow negates our advantage really, in effect all becoming the mushrooms in their own variety.

I would put their general knowledge on foreign affairs and world history/geography than many US/UK people. 'Cos they actually learned some US/European history back in school at young ages, and felt only natural to learn more after growing up. On the contrary, the ordinary town-folks in EU/US didn't really give a toss about Asian/Middle-eastern histories; and now faced these rising powers, suddenly found themselves in uncharted territories, and couldn't figure out what the others were thinking, which only had themselves to blame. When confronted with tough Asian countries, USA would happily brand these countries as mysterious lunatics. Now, that to me, is ignorant.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Our carriers have gone everywhere. We are in International waters. What is it that is spooking them this time?

International Waters?

Just American interpretation

American can say Tibet and Taiwan are American territory!

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Guess that could work both ways, Recognise the Dala Lama as the offical goverment of Tibet.

More military aid to Taiwan

Restrict more technology to China

Exclude China from the WTO.

Surround China with an Asian verson of NATO

More broadcasts by Voice of America into china advocating religious freedom, democracy, pointing out how violations of human rights such as censorship.

China Human Rights

Amnesty International has documented widespread human rights violations in China. An estimated 500,000 people are currently enduring punitive detention without charge or trial, and millions are unable to access the legal system to seek redress for their grievances. Harassment, surveillance, house arrest, and imprisonment of human rights defenders are on the rise, and censorship of the Internet and other media has grown. Repression of minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians, and of Falun Gong practitioners and Christians who practice their religion outside state-sanctioned churches continues. While the recent reinstatement of Supreme People's Court review of death penalty cases may result in lower numbers of executions, China remains the leading executioner in the world

Amnesty International USA - Protect Human Rights

There is an old saying those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Dala Lama is the insurgent and excile goverment of Tibet. Not official goverment.

 

[Chogy]

Late to this thread, but international waters are just that.

Foreign warships and spy ships in the Gulf of Mexico are nothing new. Soviet "Trawlers" (fishing ships absolutely bristling with antennas) were a common sight in the Warning areas south of Pensacola and Eglin AFB in the 1980's. Pensacola was primarily a training base, but Eglin at the time Had both the 33rd TFW and a Test wing, and there was plenty of juicy electromagnetic radiation floating about. We'd buzz them, they'd wave, we'd go about our business.

The US does have a very important alliance with South Korea, and of course Japan, and when and if the US sends naval assets to the area, it should not be viewed as some sort of provocation. If it is, that is China's problem. They are welcome to send warships off of California in return, so long as territorial waters are respected. Trust me, no one here is going to panic.

 

[gambit]

Late to this thread, but international waters are just that.

Foreign warships and spy ships in the Gulf of Mexico are nothing new. Soviet "Trawlers" (fishing ships absolutely bristling with antennas) were a common sight in the Warning areas south of Pensacola and Eglin AFB in the 1980's. Pensacola was primarily a training base, but Eglin at the time Had both the 33rd TFW and a Test wing, and there was plenty of juicy electromagnetic radiation floating about. We'd buzz them, they'd wave, we'd go about our business.

The US does have a very important alliance with South Korea, and of course Japan, and when and if the US sends naval assets to the area, it should not be viewed as some sort of provocation. If it is, that is China's problem. They are welcome to send warships off of California in return, so long as territorial waters are respected. Trust me, no one here is going to panic.

That is precisely the problem. It is a boost to these guys' egos that the US must 'panic' whereas we know better.