Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[PanzerKiel]

US Army has the M1A1 and A2 Abrams as mainstay tanks

British Army has the Challenger as the mainstay tank

French Army has the Leclerc as the mainstay tank

Above powerful Armies aside, Pakistan Army has 07 mainstay tanks!!! What a bloody Mess we have in Armoured Corps!!!!

Again, their tanks or armored corps doesn't have to face the varied nature of threats or terrain which we are facing simultaneously.

Otherwise, back in c Cold War days, once these countries did have multifarious threats in different terrains, these countries also resorted to multiple tank types.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

VT4 - Pakistan's new battle tanks

VT4 deal and Pakistan.

1: Pakistan is acquiring 300 VT-4 from Norinco China. It has paid $860 Million for initial batch of 176 MBTs. The payment of 124 MBTs will be done in later stages.

2: Pakistan's VT-4 is most capable version compared to that of Thailand and Nigeria. Unlike other VT-4 version which are equipped with 1300HP engine and FY2 ERA, Pakistan's VT4 are equipped with 1500HP engine and FY-4 ERA. The tank is believed to be superior than Russian T90MS.

3: The Al Khalid tank project will continue alongside induction of VT4 which Pakistan is acquiring off the shelf. However, HIT will posses ability to maintain, overhaul and even modify these tanks when necessary.

4: VT4 are likely to deploy in Punjab and may replace AZ from 6th Armored Division.

5: Purchase of VT4 is one component of a comprehensive upgradation package which also includes artillery, APCs and air defense system.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PakistaniMilitary/comments/gazcev

 

[IceCold]

We have to look for armor requirements of western borders of FATA and Balochistan as well. Thats where old tanks become handy.

You would probably remember the old T series took a beating from the RPGs during WOT. I am talking about Musharraf era. In fact there is a whole documentry on that. I remember tank T 59 i believe went ahead and than all the sudden it came rushing back, the crew was like they saw hell and than Cobras were call to clear.
The threat level may not be same now but are we sure to still carry these old tanks. Why not the older Al-khalids? While the new ones and this V4 remains to kick Indian asses.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

These might be our beauties or similar!

 

[HRK]

here seems to be at least some degree of commonality in some parts.

Type-59 Link

This is basically a close evolution of the Type 59, with a 580 hp diesel engine, Type 69 100 mm smoothbore gun (still similar in appearance with the former with its characteristic muzzle fume extractor), an IR searchlight, and a 1st generation laser rangefinder. Therefore first hit capabilities is improved, although with its basic stabilization system there is limited accuracy when firing on the move. NBC protection is individual. This model was only produced as a prototype, as after capturing a T-62 new prospects for upgrades were drawn off.

Type-85 is second generation tank based on second generation Chinese Type-80 tank Chassis which itself was based on Type-79 and Type-79 is the further evolution of Type-69 tank of China, as far as commonality is concern Type-59 and Type-69 share 50%-60% components while Type-85 share around 10%-15% components of Type-59/69

[NOTE: these figures of commonality of subcomponents are stated based on memory as read about these tanks some years ago currently do not have ready reference to attached it here, so plz check these figures before to quote these figures]

 

[PanzerKiel]

You would probably remember the old T series took a beating from the RPGs during WOT. I am talking about Musharraf era. In fact there is a whole documentry on that. I remember tank T 59 i believe went ahead and than all the sudden it came rushing back, the crew was like they saw hell and than Cobras were call to clear.
The threat level may not be same now but are we sure to still carry these old tanks. Why not the older Al-khalids? While the new ones and this V4 remains to kick Indian asses.

Tanks getting hit by 300 m range RPGs is tactically a failure of the supporting Infantry which is responsible for denying enemy anti tank teams a tactically superior firing position.

WOT is like any other war. Casualties of not only tanks, but Infantry and other arms also occurred.

Casualties are part of war. Though not completely avoidable, but they can be minimized by superior tactics.

Effective range of RPG against static targets is 300 m. If an enemy RPG team manages to reach within 300 m of a tank, then either the enemy anti tank team or the tank deserves to be roasted.

It's a failure of tactics, not the equipment.

We were going through a learning phase at that time.

You can judge this from the fact that.... When was the last time you even heard that we lost a tank to terrorists.

These older tanks, however, still possess some characteristics which even the latest tanks don't have even now....... Simplicity, maintenance and ease of operating being the first.

 

[farooqbhai007]

US Army has the M1A1 and A2 Abrams as mainstay tanks

British Army has the Challenger as the mainstay tank

French Army has the Leclerc as the mainstay tank

Above powerful Armies aside, Pakistan Army has 07 mainstay tanks!!! What a bloody Mess we have in Armoured Corps!!!!

The USMC which is the branch which is always at the front of a US invasion retired all its MBTs recently , only US Army has M1A1/A2 tanks
The brits have 227 challengers and are also going to be retiring all soon , and not replacing them with newer tanks
The French have only 406 leclerc -

now compare Pak and see which one is better,Within Al-khalids , T80Us and T85UGs we have 1000+ tanks . Do you want us to retire them all as well ?

 

[Cookie Monster]

We have to look for armor requirements of western borders of FATA and Balochistan as well. Thats where old tanks become handy.

Right...there's no reason why older tanks can't be relegated to the western front. However still 7 different types can be reduced. I still think PA can meet most of its criteria for tanks(in terms of different terrains, roads and bridges and the load they can handle) with two different weight classes of tanks.

Having too much fragmentation may be manageable now...during peace time...and maybe even during wartime for a bit...
...eventually though it will become increasingly hard as various tanks are damaged/destroyed, industrial capacity related to supporting these various tanks would become significantly reduced in a drawn out conflict.

I understand that Pakistan is a poor country...and there's a thousand other things where money can be spent to meet the threat of a much larger neighbor...but at the very least IMO PA planners should have this in the back of their minds that this much fragmentation is a potential drawback. So at least in the long term it can be solved.

Thanks to @HRK for that informative post.

 

[volatile]

i have read some where that Pakistan VT-4 has active protection system (is it Trophy type) or some thing else .

 

[PanzerKiel]

i have read some where that Pakistan VT-4 has active protection system (is it Trophy type) or some thing else .

 

[volatile]

View attachment 671023

TROPHY™ - Active Protection System (APS) and Hostile Fire Detection (HFD) for Armored Vehicles | Leonardo DRS

TROPHY™ provides real-time threat detection and neutralization, enhancing platform survivability for tanks & other armored vehicles.

www.leonardodrs.com

TROPHY™ Active Protection System (APS)

The World’s First and Only Fully Operational, Combat-Proven APS
By proactively detecting, locating, and (if necessary) neutralizing anti-armor threats, TROPHY™ dramatically increases platform survivability, and creates a new paradigm of networked threat awareness for maneuver forces.
BENEFITS:

• Defeats all known anti-armor, shaped charge weapons (missiles, rockets, tank-fired HEAT) before they strike the platform
• Enables networked threat awareness by pinpointing and Reporting shooter location across the battle management system
• Greatly improves platform protection, with very low risk of collateral injury, without increasing armor or sacrificing vehicle performance
• Networked Threat Awareness ensures freedom of movement and maneuver, retaining the initiative and maintaining offensive momentum.

 

[volatile]

The GL5 Active Protection System is an active protection system developed in China by NORINCO designed for main battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. The system can detect incoming warheads such as anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) with a range of 100m and within a 360-degree horizontal and 20-degree band. Upon detection, two defensive rockets are fired at the incoming threat.

It has paid $860 Million for initial batch of 176 MBTs.

wooping 4.8 Mil US$ per Tank OMG we thought Russians were ripping off Indians

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

The GL5 Active Protection System is an active protection system developed in China by NORINCO designed for main battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. The system can detect incoming warheads such as anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) with a range of 100m and within a 360-degree horizontal and 20-degree band. Upon detection, two defensive rockets are fired at the incoming threat.

wooping 4.8 Mil US$ per Tank OMG we thought Russians were ripping off Indians

Including Supplies maybe!

 

[HRK]

Members who are questioning this many number of different tanks need to understand one more thing that
- Type-59/69 are 2nd gen tanks,

- Type-85-II are much improve 2nd gen tanks,

- T-80UD and AK series are 3rd gen Tanks,

- As far AZ is concern we can say its an attempt to bring it closer to 3gen tank or it is somewhat equivalent 2+ gen tank

- OTOH upgraded Type-85UG with AK gun control and fire control system should consider near to baseline 3rd gen tanks if not equivalent to 3rd gen tanks

therefore AK series+T-80UD+Type-85UG give 3rd gen capabilities, while Al-Zarrar Series give +2nd gen capabilities.

 

[volatile]

Including Supplies maybe!

Still it is a rip off unless some thing else is there .M1 Abraham cost 4.3 Million a piece ,Armata is less at 3.8 Mill per unit ,Russian T99 is less than this amount . Al Khalid has 4.9 Million price tag (development cost incorporated)