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The case against Hafiz Saeed

India may provide more info on Mumbai attacks, says Krishna

NEW DELHI: INDIA on Saturday said that it would continue to give evidence to Pakistan on the Mumbai terror attacks in a bid to bring the
perpetrators of the attacks to justice.

External affairs minister S M Krishna said that India would continue to provide information to Pakistan “as and when” it is collected. His statement comes a day after India provided a fifth dossier containing information on Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed’s involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks to Pakistan.

“We are in continuous touch with the government of Pakistan. It is an ongoing exercise between India and Pakistan. So, as and when, we collect more evidence we will keep sending it across to Pakistan and that is what the foreign secretary did yesterday,” Mr Krishna said. Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao met Pakistani high commissioner Shahid Malik on Friday and handed over the fifth dossier related to the Mumbai terror attacks.

India had already given four dossiers to Pakistan on various aspects of the Mumbai terror attacks including information and evidence on the terrorists and their handlers and the logistics used by the terrorists. The intent is for Pakistan to continue the investigations on its end so that those behind the terror attacks can be brought to justice. The focus of the last dossier was on Hafiz Saeed, whom India believes is the mastermind of the terror attacks. But Islamabad has continued to say that there is no evidence linking Saeed to the Mumbai attack terrorists or the plot and that India is yet to give sufficient evidence against the Jamaat chief, who was released from house arrest by a Pakistani court.

India has continued to say that the real test of Pakistan’s terror commitments would be if it acts “decisively” against Saeed and has continued to provide information on the Jamaat chief.
 
India will provide more information to Pak

NEW DELHI, 22 AUG: A day after India provided “additional information” to Pakistan on the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, the external affairs minister, Mr SM Krishna, today said India will keep on providing more evidence to Islamabad “as and when” it is collected. The minister’s statement comes in the backdrop of Pakistan foreign minister Mr Shah Mahmood Qureshi’s claim that India was not responding to Islamabad’s request for intelligence sharing on possible terror attacks as indicated by the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh recently. “We are in continuous touch with the government of Pakistan. As and when we collect more evidence we will keep sending it to Pakistan and that is what the foreign secretary did yesterday,” Mr Krishna said.

India welcomes Afghan polls
India today said that “it is gratifying to see the democratic process taking strong root in Afghanistan” with reference to the elections held in that country on 20 August.
The external affairs minister, Mr SM Krishna, said, “Despite the complex security environment and threats from terrorist groups, candidates have campaigned fearlessly and new voters registered themselves in large numbers. As a fellow developing country and a democracy, we remain strongly supportive of the election process.” sns
 
No interest in this topic?

I hope that now Interpol has recognized him as a wanted terrorist, Pakistan will take his trial more seriously.
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-against-Hafiz-Saeed/articleshow/4934172.cms

NEW DELHI: Interpol has issued a Red Corner Notice (RCN) on Tuesday against Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, who has been chargesheeted

for masterminding the 26/11 Mumbai attack carnage.

The notice will make it difficult for Pakistan to let the dreaded chief of JuD roam freely.

Earlier, government sources said that the CBI, which acts as the nodal agency for all dealings with Interpol, has already written to the world police body, based on the 26/11 chargesheet, to get an RCN issued against Saeed who was let off by the Lahore High Court as Islamabad didn't press charges against him.

Interpol issues an RCN against any accused after it receives all information and evidence against him from the country in which the crime has been committed.

"The RCN will be issued on the basis of the non-bailable warrant issued against Saeed by a Mumbai court earlier and also all the evidences gathered against him by the Mumbai police. These have been handed over to the CBI to let the agency take up the case with Interpol,'' said a source to Times Now.

While Saeed is known for his venomous utterances against India for several years, 26/11 is the first time his name has featured in a chargesheet. According to the evidence provided by India to Pakistan, Saeed motivated terrorists to attack Mumbai and was also involved in their training.

The Mumbai police have said that Saeed was among the 35 people who provided training to all the terrorists who executed 26/11 between 2007-08 at Muridke, Manshera, Muzzafarabad, Azizabad and other places in ***.

Ajmal Kasab, in fact, had admitted in his confession before the Mumbai police that Saeed personally saw the terrorists off in Karachi a few days before the Mumbai attacks. Pakistan has defended its refusal to act against Saeed by saying that India has not given evidence against him. This slim dossier which was delivered to Pakistan on Friday focuses on Saeed's role in 26/11 and emphasises Saeed being officially declared terrorist by UN Security Council should be strong enough reason for Pakistan to nail him.

In keeping with India's bid to keep the pressure going on Pakistan, foreign minister S M Krishna on Saturday said that India will keep providing more evidence on 26/11 to Pakistan. "As and when, we collect more evidence we will keep sending it across to Pakistan and that is what the foreign secretary did yesterday,'' Krishna said. Sources said that a Blue Corner Notice, which is meant to collect additional information about a person's identity and activities in relation to a crime, was already in place against Saeed. The RCN, once issued, can prevent Saeed from moving out of Pakistan.

An RCN, however, is not an international arrest warrant and Interpol cannot force Pakistan to arrest Saeed. India had earlier managed to get an RCN issued against Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar but it could not force Pakistan take any tangible action against him. There are some countries though which look upon an RCN as a valid warrant for provisional arrest, especially if the accused caught is wanted by a country with which it has an extradition treaty.

According to Interpol, RCN is issued in two types of cases; the first type is based on an arrest warrant and is issued for a person wanted for prosecution and the second is based on a court decision for a person wanted to serve a sentence. Saeed was placed under house arrest by Pakistan in December after the UN Security Council Taliban and al-Qaida sanctions committee banned JuD in December 2008 and declared Saeed a terrorist.

The Lahore High Court, however, let Saeed off in June citing the fact that no evidence had been provided by the government to justify his detention. The Punjab government later backtracked from its statement that it would challenge his release in the Supreme Court. The Punjab law minister, Rana Sanaullah Khan, had then made the startling confession that the federal government had not shared the "confidential evidence'' it had with the state government.
 
The evidence given by India is good enough for Interpol. Question is: Is it good enough for Pakistan?
 
The evidence given by India is good enough for Interpol. Question is: Is it good enough for Pakistan?

The question is: Is the evidence good enough for Pakistani courts to convict?

So far the Pakistani courts have said nay. Perhaps the 'new evidence' will solidify the case.

Interpol is merely looking to issue an arrest warrant, not convict a criminal in a court of law - the standards of evidence required to issue an arrest warrant vs have a court of law convict a suspect can be vastly different.

We await to see whether anything has changed on the latter front.
 
Interpol issues Red Corner notice against Hafiz Saeed[
NEW DELHI: Interpol has issued a Red Corner Notice (RCN) on Tuesday against Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, who has been chargesheeted for masterminding the 26/11 Mumbai attack carnage.

The notice will make it difficult for Pakistan to let the dreaded chief of JuD roam freely.

Earlier, government sources said that the CBI, which acts as the nodal agency for all dealings with Interpol, has already written to the world police body, based on the 26/11 chargesheet, to get an RCN issued against Saeed who was let off by the Lahore High Court as Islamabad didn't press charges against him.

Interpol issues an RCN against any accused after it receives all information and evidence against him from the country in which the crime has been committed.

"The RCN will be issued on the basis of the non-bailable warrant issued against Saeed by a Mumbai court earlier and also all the evidences gathered against him by the Mumbai police. These have been handed over to the CBI to let the agency take up the case with Interpol,'' said a source to Times Now.

While Saeed is known for his venomous utterances against India for several years, 26/11 is the first time his name has featured in a chargesheet. According to the evidence provided by India to Pakistan, Saeed motivated terrorists to attack Mumbai and was also involved in their training.

The Mumbai police have said that Saeed was among the 35 people who provided training to all the terrorists who executed 26/11 between 2007-08 at Muridke, Manshera, Muzzafarabad, Azizabad and other places in ***.

Ajmal Kasab, in fact, had admitted in his confession before the Mumbai police that Saeed personally saw the terrorists off in Karachi a few days before the Mumbai attacks. Pakistan has defended its refusal to act against Saeed by saying that India has not given evidence against him. This slim dossier which was delivered to Pakistan on Friday focuses on Saeed's role in 26/11 and emphasises Saeed being officially declared terrorist by UN Security Council should be strong enough reason for Pakistan to nail him.

In keeping with India's bid to keep the pressure going on Pakistan, foreign minister S M Krishna on Saturday said that India will keep providing more evidence on 26/11 to Pakistan. "As and when, we collect more evidence we will keep sending it across to Pakistan and that is what the foreign secretary did yesterday,'' Krishna said. Sources said that a Blue Corner Notice, which is meant to collect additional information about a person's identity and activities in relation to a crime, was already in place against Saeed. The RCN, once issued, can prevent Saeed from moving out of Pakistan.

An RCN, however, is not an international arrest warrant and Interpol cannot force Pakistan to arrest Saeed. India had earlier managed to get an RCN issued against Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar but it could not force Pakistan take any tangible action against him. There are some countries though which look upon an RCN as a valid warrant for provisional arrest, especially if the accused caught is wanted by a country with which it has an extradition treaty.

According to Interpol, RCN is issued in two types of cases; the first type is based on an arrest warrant and is issued for a person wanted for prosecution and the second is based on a court decision for a person wanted to serve a sentence. Saeed was placed under house arrest by Pakistan in December after the UN Security Council Taliban and al-Qaida sanctions committee banned JuD in December 2008 and declared Saeed a terrorist.

The Lahore High Court, however, let Saeed off in June citing the fact that no evidence had been provided by the government to justify his detention. The Punjab government later backtracked from its statement that it would challenge his release in the Supreme Court. The Punjab law minister, Rana Sanaullah Khan, had then made the startling confession that the federal government had not shared the "confidential evidence'' it had with the state government.
 
hmmm dil ka behlanay yeh khyal acha ha Ghalib :)
So interpole issued RCN??
But wait a minute RCN is not an international arrest warrant and Interpol cannot force Pakistan to arrest Saeed.

"India had earlier managed to get an RCN issued against Jaish-i-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar, but it could not force Pakistan to take any tangible action against him", the paper said.
 
Now I remember a saying from Kannada(One 14 official Indian Langauges)
"If you feed milk to Snake it wont stop producing Venum"
"If you feed Sugar to Neem tree it wont stop producing bitternes"

Well Pakistani establishment was able to protect these Terrorist leaders by bending the law, but it could not save its own people from taliban attacks. One fine day pakistan pay price for LET or JEM. :pop:


This fact is leanred by India in hard way LTTE ---> Rajiv Gandhi. :hitwall:
No need to be ridiculous - its a simple enough issue of whether there is enough evidence to convict Saeed.

Two courts in Pakistan have so far said that there is not enough evidence. Pakistan stated, almost right after the attacks took place, that it was in favor of a joint investigation. That could have been expanded into a observer role for Indian prosecutors and investigators in the Pakistani investigation and prosecution, and satisfied the Indian side that all the evidence they claim to have provided was being presented in court.

India instead chose to rebuff all gestures of cooperation and started war mongering hysteria.

Pakistani courts have issued several judgments against the PPP government, so at this point in time I see no reason to question their impartiality in trying Hafiz Saeed. The inability to convict Saeed then can only be explained by a lack of evidence implicating him in the Mumbai attacks.
 
No need to be ridiculous - its a simple enough issue of whether there is enough evidence to convict Saeed.

Two courts in Pakistan have so far said that there is not enough evidence. Pakistan stated, almost right after the attacks took place, that it was in favor of a joint investigation. That could have been expanded into a observer role for Indian prosecutors and investigators in the Pakistani investigation and prosecution, and satisfied the Indian side that all the evidence they claim to have provided was being presented in court.

India instead chose to rebuff all gestures of cooperation and started war mongering hysteria.

Pakistani courts have issued several judgments against the PPP government, so at this point in time I see no reason to question their impartiality in trying Hafiz Saeed. The inability to convict Saeed then can only be explained by a lack of evidence implicating him in the Mumbai attacks.




India has already given many proofs to pak govt, but question is, will pak govt use those dossiers in serious manner or not? And about joint investigation, when so many dossiers are already given to pak about everything they wanted, you think still there is any need left for joint statement. And more over indian govt has already said that we would provide as much as proofs or information Pakistan need. So its not less than a joint investigation.
 
India has already given many proofs to pak govt, but question is, will pak govt use those dossiers in serious manner or not? And about joint investigation, when so many dossiers are already given to pak about everything they wanted, you think still there is any need left for joint statement. And more over indian govt has already said that we would provide as much as proofs or information Pakistan need. So its not less than a joint investigation.

Just because dossiers have been handed over does not mean that credible evidence has been handed over that could result in a conviction.

Zarrar Shah and Lakhvi, along with a few more suspects, are still in custody and their cases are reported to be progressing well. But that has not been the case with Saeed. Now I have heard that with Shah and Lakhvi the Indians provided intercepts of their conversations with the terrorists in Mumbai along with other direct evidence implicating them.

I have not heard of any such direct evidence implicating Saeed in either planning or plotting the attacks - has more information related to the evidence against Saeed been released?

Now the reason I thought the joint investigation and observer status was a good idea was that then Indian investigators and prosecutors would be assured that whatever they wanted to present in the case was put before the court.
 
Al Jazeera English - CENTRAL/S. ASIA - Pakistan 'stifling Mumbai probe'

In a move likely to inflame an already tense relationship with Pakistan, the Indian government has revealed publicly for the first time a dossier of evidence presented to Islamabad linking the leader of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group blamed for the Mumbai attacks.

The co-ordinated attacks by armed men on several locations across India's financial capital last November left at least 170 people dead and hundreds wounded.

In depth



Timeline of Mumbai attack
Media reacts to mayhem
Voices from Mumbai
Photos: A city under fire
Video: Assaults shake city
Map: Assault flashpoints
The attacks have strained relations between New Delhi and Islamabad.

Now, in an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera's Hamish Macdonald, P Chidambaram, India's interior minister, says Pakistan is "deliberately" stifling the investigation by failing to follow up on the evidence.

Chidambaram produced documents detailing names, times and locations of alleged meetings involving Hafiz Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba chief, and those who went on to conduct the attacks.

Pakistan has repeatedly refused to re-arrest Saeed because it says India has failed to produce convincing evidence.

Beyond that, the dossier chronicles India's efforts in recent years to persuade Pakistan to investigate suspects involved in attacks in India and to close down "terrorist training camps" inside Pakistani territory.

India's demands

In the final pages, India demands that Pakistan hand over "conspirators" to face trial in India and comply with its promise to stop armed groups from functioning inside its territory.

"There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack, it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan," Manmohan Singh, the Indian prime minister, said on Tuesday.

But Pakistan rejected the allegation.

Indian officials say there were 10 attackers involved in the November 2008 assault [AFP]
"Scoring points like this will only move us further away from focusing on the very real and present danger of regional and global terrorism," Sherry Rehman, Pakistan's information minister, said in a statement to the Reuters news agency.

"It is our firm resolve to ensure that nonstate actors do not use Pakistani soil to launch terrorist attacks anywhere in the world."

Pakistan has said it is examining the information sent by India. Also, a Pakistani court on Saturday resumed hearing a case against the alleged masterminds of the Mumbai attacks.

Proceedings were initially launched against five men, but two more suspects have since been arrested, according to a state-run news agency report last week.

The five suspects arrested earlier and being tried are Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a Lashkar commander, and four others - Hammad Amin, Abdul Wajid alias Zarar Shah, Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu Qama and Shahid Jameel Riaz.

The two more recently arrested men are Jameel Ahmed and Younus Anjum.
 
BAHHH what ever!!!

Pakistan arrested JuD Chief but there is not enough evidence, if India is so much interested in trail then hand over enough proof so that the JuD chief can be convicted, handing over JuD Chief to India is absolutely out of question & by the way is there ANY news in Indian media about Lt. Col. Prohit, who stole the RDX from army ranks to blow up Pakistanis where the hell is he, even that incident within a few hours was blamed on Pakistan what about handing Col to Pakistan, India is just playing the blame games, after Sharm Al Sheikh when Indian PM confessed the involvement in un rest in Balochistan after which he faced the criticism back at home now Indian government body has started this campaign of giving statements against Pakistan & Indian COAS is also doing that 'statement game'

India's statement that 'talks wont resume until action against alleged terrorists' is weird one, there is not enough evidence to convict any one, at Sharm Al Sheikh Indian PM agreed to 'talk' but now the attitude has changed once Indian PM landed in India, this duality by Indians is......
 
BAHHH what ever!!!

Pakistan arrested JuD Chief but there is not enough evidence, if India is so much interested in trail then hand over enough proof so that the JuD chief can be convicted, handing over JuD Chief to India is absolutely out of question & by the way is there ANY news in Indian media about Lt. Col. Prohit, who stole the RDX from army ranks to blow up Pakistanis where the hell is he, even that incident within a few hours was blamed on Pakistan what about handing Col to Pakistan, India is just playing the blame games, after Sharm Al Sheikh when Indian PM confessed the involvement in un rest in Balochistan after which he faced the criticism back at home now Indian government body has started this campaign of giving statements against Pakistan & Indian COAS is also doing that 'statement game'

India's statement that 'talks wont resume until action against alleged terrorists' is weird one, there is not enough evidence to convict any one, at Sharm Al Sheikh Indian PM agreed to 'talk' but now the attitude has changed once Indian PM landed in India, this duality by Indians is......

You can't "BAHHH what ever!!!" that! That is what your Govt has been doing for too long now.

If you look at the link it includes a video, PC has said that the dossiers handed over to Pakistan have details of meetings Saeed had with 'the boys'. Exact locations, dates. times and who his company was, even what transpired. He has also said that if any prosecutor is serious he will go to these places and uncover more evidence. For obvious reasons that investigation has to be done by elements of the Pakistani law enforcement. India has to respect Pakistan's soveriegnty!

India is not asking (atleast not vociferously) for Saeed to be extradited, I hope you know that PM MMS has said that India will come more than half way, if Pakistan only does follow through on the logical legal procedure & tries alleged criminals under it's OWN laws.

Update on the case you referred to - 2007 Samjhauta blasts:
2007 Samjhauta Express bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Specifically,
Investigation

The day after the bombings, Indian police stated that the suitcase bomb attack was the work of at least four or five people with a possible militant connection.[28] The police also released sketches of two suspects who the police Inspector General said had left the train just fifteen minutes before the explosions.[28] The police say that one of the men was around 35 or 36 years old, "plumpish" and dark, with a moustache, and the second was around 26 or 27, wearing a scarf wrapped around his head. The police also stated that both men were speaking Hindi.[29] Another man, a Pakistani national who was drunk at the time, was being questioned because he said he threw one of the bomb-containing suitcases off the train. A senior Haryana state railway police official said that the man's "account has been inconsistent and we have no definite conclusions yet."[30] Later, the Inspector General said "the suitcase was thrown on the track" and that the Pakistani national "was there and said he had thrown it."[28]

In early March, Haryana police arrested two people from the city of Indore who allegedly sold the suitcases used in the bombings.[31] No charges were pressed on the individuals. A probe conducted by the commissioner of Railway Safety officially determined that the explosions and fire on the Samjhauta Express had been caused by bombs located in the upper compartments in coaches GS 03431 and GS 14857.[32] The probe also showed that the train slowed down to a speed of 20 kilometres per hour (12.4 mph) just before it was going to pass the Diwana train station. The results strengthened the belief that the suspects got off the train before the explosions.[33] On 31 March, a 25-year-old man was interrogated after being arrested in Amritsar after jumping off a moving train under suspicious circumstances.[34]

[edit] Later developments

No major developments took place in the investigation since late March 2007. Meanwhile, the Indian and Pakistan governments agreed to a bilateral pact to extend passenger train and freight services between the two countries until 2010.[35] In late April, the Indian and Pakistan governments initiated steps for safety and security measures for the Samjhauta Express. The two countries started sharing information on passengers travelling on the trains. The train is now under a reservation system, and as one Railway Ministry source said, "[w]ith no unreserved coaches, we now have complete passenger details from their ticket reservation data a few hours prior to their boarding, and departure of the train."[36] Also in late April, three new coaches equipped with India's most advanced fire fighting systems were added to the Samjhauta Express. Indian Railway Ministry sources commented that the system acts with brake pressure, and this glass-encased system could throw water up to 15 metres (49.2 ft).[37] Indian and Pakistani members of the Anti-Terror Mechanism (ATM) group met on 22 October 2007 to update each other regarding the status of the investigation.[38]

The attack was first blamed on Islamic militants from Pakistan. Initial media reports suggested that the prime suspects in the bombing were the Islamic groups Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, both of whom have been blamed for many high-profile bombings in the past.[39] But later Haryana police added some Hindu extremist groups to the list of suspects. Accordingly police from Haryana arrived in Mumbai to question the suspect in the latter case, Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit and sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, with possible connections to the attack. The two names came up after it was established that the suitcase bombs, which blew up the two bogies of the express train were assembled in Indore.[40] In Chandigarh, the Inspector General (Railway Police), K K Mishra, said that "our investigations in the Samjhauta probe had led us to Indore after we got clues that the suitcases and stitchings on them which were used in the explosions were procured from Indore."[41] India said it may share with Pakistan the latest developments in its investigations into the blasts but so far nothing new has been shared. [42] On July 1, 2009 the United States Treasury and UNSC put sanctions on Pakistan-based terrorist organization, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and named Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blasts.[43]


If you are referring to 2008 Malegaon blast:
The news about Lt Col S P Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya, Rakesh Dhawde, Ramesh Upadhyay, Shyamlal Sahu, Shivnarain Kalsangra, Dayanand Pandey, Sudhakar Chaturvedi, Jagdish Mhatre, Sameer Kulkarni and Ajay Rahirkar is that the ATS had filed a 11,000-page charge sheet against the accused in January. The chargesheet alleged Malegaon was selected as the blast target because Muslims form sizeable part of its population.

::News4u:: Lt Col Purohit

So the ex-Army man is very much under trail & will get what he deserves, all in good time.

Balochistan: I dont know where you got the Indian PM confessing, talking in terms of credible news sources, but he has told the Indian Parliament that Balochistan found it's way in because Indians have nothing to hide, so if Pakistan presents evidence India will act. AFAIK, no dossiers on Balochistan have been forthcoming.

If you have a problem with the speed of things on Malegaon, that is no surprise, Indian judiciary is not known for its speed. But the direction is unmistakabaly right. Compare that with the situation in Pakistan, it will be ONE whole year on 26 Nov this year and the trail is ::YET:: to get underway!
 
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Nothing is going to happen. The Pakistani public is buying Zaid Hamid's version of things.

There is a great quote by the philosopher Nietzsche which goes:

"I did that," says my memory. "I did not," says my pride; and memory yields."
 

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