De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

[Arsalan]

Seems like the equation changes in India's favor.

Seems like as i said the post showed, how much of an integral part is Kashmir to you at worst ,and delusion about Palestine and Kashmir at best

 

[WAJsal]

Pakistan's problem with India is the very presence of it. Especially after the 71 disaster, they have turned more towards religion for salvation. So the simple existence of a Hindu/non Muslim India is reason enough. Before 71, there were chances of peace. But now Pakistan has taken a very different route already. Two whole generations have grown up with Islam as the strength behind Pakistan. How can such people even conceive of true friendship with us? The PDF Pakistanis, I must admit are far more liberal and tolerant (yes, even the more rabid ones). They are all from the upper echelons of society, have stayed abroad, broadened their outlooks etc. But the average Pakistani will not even consider India as a partner in peace, let alone a friend. I am leaving the few secular liberal ones out of the discussion.

Majority, in fact much more than majority want's peace with India. In my opinion you have it all wrong. Pakistani people have never wished to wipe of India from the map and etc, etc. You have it all wrong, we don't wish to be enemies. We as a nation might be many things but this mentality, no sir. Note: your point can be easily countered, as there are more than enough people in India who feel the same way about Pakistan, same questions applied.

The reason for this hate is in religion, their dismemberment, their perception of Islamic superiority etc. They won't accept it and will rationalize it with Kashmir conflict, Khalistan, Tamlistan, Dravidastan etc etc. But the crux of the matter is an emotional cry, a hate for all things non/less Muslim(be it USA, Israel, India).

Generalizing a nation as some sick effing 'so-called Islamic' terrorists. I thought you would be the last one coming up with this bullshit. We don't hate Hindus or Jews as you may put it non/ Muslims. Coming up with such stupidity, a new low.

Perfectly put. As can only be done by a Hindu who has seen the other side closely. As I have.

Pakistan bears the cross (pardon the pun) of the failure of the entire subcontinental populace to convert en masse. In spite of some of the worst most barbaric bigots and a thousand odd years of strife and attempts to do the same, Bharatvarsh remained predominantly Hindu.

While to the west, population after population, civilization after civilization folded. To the north, the story is the same (all the tajik, uzbek etc central asian muslim lands). To the east too the story was the same. Malysia, Indonesia etc.

The old Asian civilizations resisted, with their deep roots. India. China. The Japanese and Koreans. The Russians. The European pushback.

But if there is one big blot, one big thorn of discontinuity for Islam to claim an uninterrupted swathe of continental dominance all the way from Turkey down to sub saharan Africa to the middle east all the way to south east Asia, it is the continent of Akhand Bharat.

That is what Pakistan represents to the rest of the Muslim world. And that is the source of their continuing angst.

Right now they are in a fight for survival, for consolidation of the gains (their 1000-year consolation prize) they made in 47.

If we let them off the hook now, they will not stop till they redeem themselves in the eyes of their Ummah.

Seems to me that you have a problem with Islam, not Pakistan. Radicalized.

 

[doppelganger]

Seems to me that you have a problem with Islam, not Pakistan. Radicalized.

Yes you are right. I have a problem with radicalized Islam. And its proponents. Not Islam or Muslims per se. Many of whom I call friends and brothers.

This is an ancient Hindu land. It continues to be a Hindu land. Our problem with you is because it remains a Hindu land.

No one is really taken in by this whole "solve Kashmir and enjoy never-ending peace" saga.

Kashmir is a red herring. The prize is Hindu India.

 

[WAJsal]

Our problem with you is because it remains a Hindu land.

You have a problem with Islam.

No one is really taken in by this whole "solve Kashmir and enjoy never-ending peace" saga.

Feeling is mutual, read some previous comments.

 

[doppelganger]

You have a problem with Islam.

I have a problem with radicalized Islam and its proponents, yes.

Neither is conducive to my health or that of my nation and countrymen. Or our ancestral way of life.

 

[WAJsal]

I have a problem with radicalized Islam and its proponents, yes.

Neither is conducive to my health or that of my nation and countrymen. Or our ancestral way of life.

Your previous posts will help my argument.

 

[doppelganger]

Your previous posts will help my argument.

What is your argument?

I only hear a one-sided opinion. Which of course each of us is entitled to.

You are a TTA. But even an ordinary member with some exposure to forums knows that you debate the point, not the one making it.

So what exactly is your rebuttal to the points I made?

 

[WAJsal]

What is your argument?

I only hear a one-sided opinion. Which of course each of us is entitled to.

Read previous posts.

 

[doppelganger]

Read previous posts.

Which ones? The ones I wrote, I already know. Because they are my posts, and I don't ghost write.

I ask you again. Do you actually have a point beyond your assessment of who or what I am?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Generalizing a nation as some sick effing 'so-called Islamic' terrorists. I thought you would be the last one coming up with this bullshit. We don't hate Hindus or Jews as you may put it non/ Muslims. Coming up with such stupidity, a new low.

I have mentioned before that there are exceptional Pakistanis. But in general, (and even here) the point is clear. Your good words are nice but don't reflect the reality. Unfortunately. Plus, the message was to levina, not to you. Besides, for every you, there are many more syedalis, zarvans, rockstars etc. There is nothing debatable about it unfortunately. It's a fact. I don't wish to offend your personal sensibilities but was just pointing out the ground reality as I see it to levina. Thanks.

Would defer in one angle that the PDF Pakistani is better equipped with words and sword to play masquerade games and easily diplomatic. Average Pakistani is an average Indian who don't even know what is the issue. . they have their own issues and not interested in rivalry. They get fed with what is available in the market .

Average Pakistani is more enmeshed with religion. It will take little prodding to charge him up with anti Hindu rhetoric. Anybody without external stimulus will mind their own business. Even ISIS sympathizers. But once they have a leader, all will follow. Do watch Benazir Bhutto's speech on Kashmir in 1989 that truly began the Kashmir intifada. Or even Jinnah's speech for the call for Direct Action. Ordinary folks minding their own lives turned into butchers. It becomes easy because of the religious sanction. That becomes reason enough.

 

[WAJsal]

I have mentioned before that there are exceptional Pakistanis. But in general, (and even here) the point is clear. Your good words are nice but don't reflect the reality. Unfortunately. Plus, the message was to levina, not to you. Besides, for every you, there are many more syedalis, zarvans, rockstars etc. There is nothing debatable about it unfortunately. It's a fact. I don't wish to offend your personal sensibilities but was just pointing out the ground reality as I see it to levina. Thanks.

It was a stupid and hurtful comment, no Muslims should hate Hindus or Jews etc, etc. We are told to respect all religions and people.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It was a stupid and hurtful comment, no Muslims should hate Hindus or Jews etc, etc. We are told to respect all religions and people.

Should? Would? Could? Shouldn't? etc etc etc.

Reality alone matters to me.

 

[doppelganger]

Should? Would? Could? Shouldn't? etc etc etc.

Reality alone matters to me.

Exactly.

But what would I know of the difference. Being the radicalized sanghi that I am.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Exactly.

But what would I know of the difference. Being the radicalized sanghi that I am.

It does not matter what you are. What matters is what the present reality is - with or without you.

 

[nForce]

Should? Would? Could? Shouldn't? etc etc etc.

Reality alone matters to me.

Agree.
"Between the idea and the reality falls the shadow", quoting T.S. Elliot.