De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

[Levina]

Oh Sarthak bhai

It is sad state because so many Bharatis come to PDF in order to become MORE prejudiced about Pakistan not less.

case in point!

OP by @levina. She used to be much more balanced few years back. Now?

It is astonishing to see her advocating RSShite policies of cutting off Pakistan.

Sad but true.

Lol @ that.

Did you even bother to introspect before raising a finger at me?

Just FYI- I maintain a safe distance from RSS due to personal reasons. Being an army officer's daughter religious extremism is the last thing I'll support.
But if you see similarities between mine and RSS's ideologies then it either means that it's high time for me to start taking them seriously, or that our neighbours conveniently brand any Hindu as RSS follower whose opinion is divergent from our neighbour's.
Did I utter a word when you called south Indians as Dalits*?? Did I ever behave rudely with you for repeatedly taunting me on the forum??? And who is responsible if you misconstrue everything I post?
I know for a fact that I can not keep everyone happy nor am I a boot licker....instead an an independent soul who believes in freedom of expression. If this is your attempt at emotionally blackmailing me into silence then sorry you've failed miserably.

*Dalits- I respect them. But the word is often used by ignorants to demean others. Dalits do not deserve such ignominy.

My OP is nothing but a reflection of what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan today. As an Indian, I feel that it's about time Indian government took sterner action. It's absolute waste of time,resource and energy to engage in peace talks with Pakistan. If the other party refuses to budge despite warnings and reminders then it's better to put them on ignore and move on. We can not afford to remain stagnant. My OP is a brusque version of this.

 

[he-man]

68 years and we have achieved zilch out these peace talks. For once, we should try to approach it differently, what if it works???
I have given up on peace....don't want to tread that path again.

There will never be peace when the divider is religion.Never.
Better accept it and move on,,,,better follow tit for tat strategy,pakistan cannot match us in that.Either way the gap between india and pakistan is increasing with each passing year.

Muslims are commanded not to hate any religion but to respect all religon and give people freedom to exercise what they like.

No religion proposes that otherwise there would be no organized religion in the first place.These are just good sounding words.

 

[Kaniska]

You just took so much of time to arrive an the conclusion..thanks...

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with RSS...I am from the RSS background from my school and college days..RSS never teach me to hate Muslims as it is presented...But yes, it teach to me fight against anti nationals who are against my nation...Unfortunately some people in my nation would love be taking sides of anti Nationals than the nation itself..So it is the problem of them than the RSS...

Again, i also do not think that any stern action can be taken against Pakistan...India lost the time courtesy Cong and other secular people in the helm of affair of our nation when India could have done something...Now in this closely connected world, only status quo can be maintained...And as you suggested. the best thing for India to do is just to ignore and treat them like any other nation....India should clearly should not loose focus on our economic development,,,Pakistan always eager to divert our energy from the development process to a military war zone enviroment...It is a trap which we should avoid...

Read all my posts on this thread, I have answered everything there. After that if you have any questions ask...

Lol @ that.

Did you even bother to introspect before raising a finger at me?

Just FYI- I maintain a safe distance from RSS due to personal reasons. Being an army officer's daughter religious extremism is the last thing I'll support.
But if you see similarities between mine and RSS's ideologies then it either means that it's high time for me to start taking them seriously, or that our neighbours conveniently brand any Hindu as RSS follower whose opinion is divergent from our neighbour's.
Did I utter a word when you called south Indians as Dalits*?? Did I ever behave rudely with you for repeatedly taunting me on the forum??? And who is responsible if you misconstrue everything I post?
I know for a fact that I can not keep everyone happy nor am I a boot licker....instead an an independent soul who believes in freedom of expression. If this is your attempt at emotionally blackmailing me into silence then sorry you've failed miserably.

*Dalits- I respect them. But the word is often used by ignorants to demean others. Dalits do not deserve such ignominy.

My OP is nothing but a reflection of what an average Indian thinks of Pakistan today. As an Indian, I feel that it's about time Indian government took sterner action. It's absolute waste of time,resource and energy to engage in peace talks with Pakistan. If the other party refuses to budge despite warnings and reminders then it's better to put them on ignore and move on. We can not afford to remain stagnant. My OP is a brusque version of this.

 

[doppelganger]

the best thing for India to do is just to ignore and treat them like any other nation....

I am RSS too bro. Even though its been quite some time since I attended regularly, its an inseparable part of me. And I'd like to confirm that there is simply no ideological conflict between being a RSS man and an Army man at the same time. We both fight for the nation. Each in his own uniform.

That said, I am not a peacenik. And I do not believe we can drop the ball and/or ignore Pakistan for an instant.

I am not really bothered about whether we talk with them or not. Or what status we give them within our country or internationally on fora.

But ignore them we never will. We need to recognize that Pakistan is made up of good people. Like Spring Onion, Fatman sir, Irfan Baloch, Fauji Historian and others here. Even good faujis, like Icarus.

But we cannot lose sight of the fact that we are simply ideologically oil and water. As long as we keep them busy, they will be unable to turn against us. It is a small nation, with limited manpower and resources to spread around. And limited strategic depth.

We keep them in a holding pattern, in strife for survival, and we ensure that we survive. We go soft, as we often do, and that is when the bomb blasts and riots and insurgencies will start again.

Its a sorry and sad fact, but its either them or us. And I'd prefer it to be us. The day they learn to coexist, they will find a ready and able partner to their east. Because even the most hardcore embittered Pakistani here on PDF will admit, there is a lot more goodwill for them on our side, than there is for us amongst them.

 

[Dash]

Seems like as i said the post showed, how much of an integral part is Kashmir to you at worst ,and delusion about Palestine and Kashmir at best

The equation... According to some Pakistani is your reference vis-a-vis the armed struggle. Outcome is zero.. A biiiig zero

 

[Dash]

I have mentioned before that there are exceptional Pakistanis. But in general, (and even here) the point is clear. Your good words are nice but don't reflect the reality. Unfortunately. Plus, the message was to levina, not to you. Besides, for every you, there are many more syedalis, zarvans, rockstars etc. There is nothing debatable about it unfortunately. It's a fact. I don't wish to offend your personal sensibilities but was just pointing out the ground reality as I see it to levina. Thanks.


Average Pakistani is more enmeshed with religion. It will take little prodding to charge him up with anti Hindu rhetoric. Anybody without external stimulus will mind their own business. Even ISIS sympathizers. But once they have a leader, all will follow. Do watch Benazir Bhutto's speech on Kashmir in 1989 that truly began the Kashmir intifada. Or even Jinnah's speech for the call for Direct Action. Ordinary folks minding their own lives turned into butchers. It becomes easy because of the religious sanction. That becomes reason enough.

Benezir or Jinnah... Like I said are all salesmen of the same market. They get milage in the land of pure but have no significance here. Coz we have a diversity to handle and I quote DIVERSITY. their penny will be subjugated and absorb nothing.

 

[Arsalan]

The equation... According to some Pakistani is your reference vis-a-vis the armed struggle. Outcome is zero.. A biiiig zero

Will appreciate if you can reply to what was talked about in the post when you quote it.

If you have nothing to say in reply what is the point of quoting the post?

You can say whatever you want to without quoting the post and the MODS will the care of it.

 

[Dash]

Will appreciate if you can reply to what was talked about in the post when you quote it.

If you have nothing to say in reply what is the point of quoting the post?

You can say whatever you want to without quoting the post and the MODS will the care of it.

Not egoistic but I have survived the forum for 6 years.. And if you have anything substantial. Then bring it on... I'm still at the subject.

 

[Arsalan]

Not egoistic but I have survived the forum for 6 years.. And if you have anything substantial. Then bring it on... I'm still at the subject.

Well that was not a threat, in fact, i will have to say the same thing again i guess, Will appreciate if you can reply to what was talked about in the post when you quote it. Still i do not see anything in reply to that!

Just like you still are to reply to the fact that your initial post did show how much integral part Kashmir is to you, the way you talked about that Integral part, once that was challenged instead of replying to that, you though better and tried to compare the Palestinian and Kashmiris pointing out some 2% to 98% ratio thingy, again, i asked if you think that 98% of Palestinian want to join with Israel and then again instead of replying to that you brought ins some equation that as per your favor India.


AGAIN, I request you to reply to what was being said, IF YOU WANT TO QUOTE THAT POST. If you want to jump from one thing to another, like you have done three times already, why bother quoting the post?

 

[Dash]

Well that was not a threat, in fact, i will have to say the same thing again i guess, Will appreciate if you can reply to what was talked about in the post when you quote it. Still i do not see anything in reply to that!

Just like you still are to reply to the fact that your initial post did show how much integral part Kashmir is to you, the way you talked about that Integral part, once that was challenged instead of replying to that, you though better and tried to compare the Palestinian and Kashmiris pointing out some 2% to 98% ratio thingy, again, i asked if you think that 98% of Palestinian want to join with Israel and then again instead of replying to that you brought ins some equation that as per your favor India.


AGAIN, I request you to reply to what was being said, IF YOU WANT TO QUOTE THAT POST. If you want to jump from one thing to another, like you have done three times already, why bother quoting the post?

Sorry I was busy and didn't see your post. But first thank you for being gentle and kind, at least that's what II feel.

The question from you and your side has been the same since independence. What I want to make clear that status quo is not going to change.

No matter what. If some one is an expendable, he is. There is a reason for that. You can quote me next time with this. When you do I will like to reply.

 

[Levina]

Sorry I was busy and didn't see your post. But first thank you for being gentle and kind, at least that's what II feel.

The question from you and your side has been the same since independence. What I want to make clear that status quo is not going to change.

No matter what. If some one is an expendable, he is. There is a reason for that. You can quote me next time with this. When you do I will like to reply.

I think @Arsalan meant you should explain your point rather than beat around the bush.

 

[Arsalan]

I think @Arsalan meant you should explain your point rather than beat around the bush.

yeah you are right, sort of.

Anyway, wont go into that,, AGAIN! @Dash can read his own posts and will find the discrepancies in the statements being made, i bet he have found them already that is why i still haven't got a straight answer, admitting to that is a different story altogether, takes some strength to admit that you have typed something in heat of the moment and do not mean what you said.

 

[kurup]

levina is correct on this one.

Pakistan can even be de-recognized by India. Okay, even suspending diplomatic exchange is fine enough. There are two crucial aspects that comes between any two countries with conflicting interests. That is money and security. Both are connected.

India fought a war against Portugal. Fought (and lost) a war against China. But we remain friends with them. Even with China the rivalry is on a pragmatic level of grown ups where neither side makes the other too uncomfortable.

Pakistan's problem with India is the very presence of it. Especially after the 71 disaster, they have turned more towards religion for salvation. So the simple existence of a Hindu/non Muslim India is reason enough. Before 71, there were chances of peace. But now Pakistan has taken a very different route already. Two whole generations have grown up with Islam as the strength behind Pakistan. How can such people even conceive of true friendship with us? The PDF Pakistanis, I must admit are far more liberal and tolerant (yes, even the more rabid ones). They are all from the upper echelons of society, have stayed abroad, broadened their outlooks etc. But the average Pakistani will not even consider India as a partner in peace, let alone a friend. I am leaving the few secular liberal ones out of the discussion.

The reason for this hate is in religion, their dismemberment, their perception of Islamic superiority etc. They won't accept it and will rationalize it with Kashmir conflict, Khalistan, Tamlistan, Dravidastan etc etc. But the crux of the matter is an emotional cry, a hate for all things non/less Muslim(be it USA, Israel, India).

Countries with religious differences (Muslim/non Muslim) always face severe problems. Sudan vs South Sudan, the Philippines, India Pakistan etc are prime examples. While those without this resolve their differences - Japan, USA, USA and Vietnam etc. Religion does not allow you to make compromises. So there's that. It's best if there is a wall of fire between India and Pakistan. No contact, no exchange, no nothing.

What a post !!! You have explained it beautifully

 

[Dash]

yeah you are right, sort of.

Anyway, wont go into that,, AGAIN! @Dash can read his own posts and will find the discrepancies in the statements being made, i bet he have found them already that is why i still haven't got a straight answer, admitting to that is a different story altogether, takes some strength to admit that you have typed something in heat of the moment and do not mean what you said.

This is interesting @levina and @Arsalan

I said we make kasmhir the next Palestine. Excuse me. Where is the confusion.

 

[Arsalan]

uff BSS kr do bahi....

here, this was your post:

There is no solving of Kashmir issue from our side. Be with us or be next Palestine... Period

and here is my reply

hmmm.. This post goes a long way in showing how "Integral" of a part Kashmir is to you

Quite simple isnt it?
Then you brought in assumption that 98% Kashmirs will want to join India and i asked that since you compared it to Palestine so you think 98% Palestinian want to join Israel? the favor and equations and some other things like that...

Listen dear, people who know me here can confirm that i wont get into arguments without reason, what you said was a stupid mistake and i had an opportunity to grab you on those loose words. Now you can continue saying this and that for as long as you want to. Personally i will suggest that there is no harm done in admitting once mistake.

Anyway man, have had enough of this, so you take care, go ahead and make you integral part your Palestine and threat to be your integral part or face consequences

Take care!