Most French people think Islam is incompatible with nation's values: PM

[flamer84]

OK - so what is the big deal about this? France will not get all the money and it will be spread out over many years in any case. BD government revenue has tripled in the last decade and should do the same over the next decade - time will sort out BD's poverty whereas France already has had it's day and is going backwards now.

So many people are butt-hurt at my comment over this little country called France that is in the last generation over any relevance on this planet. They can be as bigoted as they can in their irrelevance.

I will enlighten for I am kind.

Whenever a company like Dassault,or DCNS ,etc get these mega deals,it means one important thing.Money for them to continue R&D,R&D that keeps these countries ahead when they are allready ahead in so many fields towards other countries.With the population explosion Bangladesh's budget mainly goes to feed its people,it can't compete on science and technology,similar for many other countries like that.Your opinion on France tilting towards irelevance in the near future is just frustration.In the long future ? Who knows ? It could evolve into the United States of Europe or the Mediteranean Federation,etc but it can't be irrelevant just because it hoards and will continue to hoard technology and knowledge while countries like Bangladesh won't be ever capable of catching up.The head start is to great.

Our defence budget (representing 1,5% of our GDP ) is already 2x Bangladesh's government spendings.
Central government spending is higher than Bangladesh's GDP.
Bangladesh has first,a budget that is half of our defence budget,and has a budget deficit of nearly 5%. LOL.

Should we believe that a backward country like Bangladesh will become more relevant and important than a €2,2Tn country ?
And it's good if your government can reduce the number of people earning less than 1$ per day....
Because we won't continue to grow (higher GDP,higher wages...) improve our public services,infrastructures etc ?


@flamer84

Such delusional members,are so funny. But the worst is that they live in the backward,irrelevant West.... enjoying high quality life....

They think that breeding uncontrolled is the key to success.Wait 'till they starve in 50 years when the Planet won't be able to feed so many people and they'll be cut down by mega drones trying to enter Europe for food.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If would be nice to have statistical study pointing out major reasons for divergence from avg immigrant. It can't all be negative perception.

That is very incisive question you ask and I can't help but commend you for approaching this issue in a objective manner rather than just swinging the usual ball oxe. I being a son of Muslim migrants who moved to UK in 1960s have looked at this issue in depth as it concerns me more than most.

Is there divergence? Yes and no. It is heights of stupidity to issue binary prescriptions and even look at "Muslim" as some homogenous group. The truth is far more complex and nuanced. Even a preliminary look at this subject will reveal that certain Muslim's are less prone to issues than others. For example Bosnian, Kazakh, Azerbaijani, Turkish, Iranian, Kurdish Muslims are far less prone to problems than say Afghan, Pakistani and Arabs from certain countries. In addition Shia Muslim's are also less inclined to problems than Sunni or Wahabi variants.

Perhaps when I have more time I will go in detail but my feeling is that the "divergence" from the normative is caused by geopolitics having infected religion. In short Islam is being used as a vehicle to eitheir reflect past historical experiance or to articulate present day geopolitics or more often than not conflation of both.

What I mean by this is that whereas other migrants look to West in the neutral Muslim's all too often carry historical baggage and often look through the prism of present day geopolitical events. So a Sikh might have some historical greivance with Britain over the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre but there has been no fractious history since 1947. Similarly West Bengali's from India might still be sore over what happened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 but time has allowed that to pass into back pages of history.

However in context of Muslims the problem is they hail from lands that border all of Europe. Europe's tradtional neighbours have been Muslim's. Thus there is log history of conflict and even worse it continues today. Setting up of Isreal, Western support for Isreal, Western interventions like Iraq, Syria, Libyia have infused political hatred of the West in certain radical groups. It is this factor that causes divergence from other migrants.

If Iraq had been a Sikh state and Palestinian's had been Hindu's then the Jallianwala Bagh and Bengal Famine would have fed into a coctail to create the angst you see so often amongst Muslim's. Past inequity would reinforce today's grievances leading to flaring up. However in countries with very strong secular identities like Turkey or Iran there is significant severance from the percieved inequities. Enough to prevent radical groups from emerging with aim to strike at the West.

This subject probably needs entire thread to address the issues I raised properly.

@Vauban @flamer84 @UKBengali @Penguin

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The French PM is absolutely right

 

[Goenitz]

IDK why western members are aloof from reality.
People migrate (legal/illegal) to former colonial masters country bcz they know the language. Indians prefer, UK, USA, Australia etc
France is surely a giant in Science and tech but we are discussing its politics.
Being rich is not a measure of prosperity. I bet Italy is more wealthy (not rich) in tradition and as society compared to US (Park in front of MIT university is famous as rape park bcz teachers & students don't go to parking w/o guard accompanying them)
http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/06...ronting-the-reality-of-target-rape-on-campus/

What is Switzerland economic model. They invited looters, from all over the world, to deposited their balck money in their banks. So Swiss got surplus cash to build themselves.
And Why Swiss chocolate is famous, despite they don't produce ounce of Cocoa beans. Will Nestle (swiss company) allowed, Cocoa producer (some african countries) making their own brand? Hell no!!! It will surely monopolize and cease such activities in these countries.

Lastly, European members, your country wealth/prosperity/money is not in your ownership (so yours chest beating for others achievements is pointless, Unless you personally have done something great yourself). My point is, making a jet engine is not my accomplishment nor yours.
Yes, you may belong to a great country but all the money belongs to Govt/Corporate sector/Industrialists/Banks etc.. And Its always, few people in every country who own these. Corporate people don't have nationality, but interests. You think D'assault, or Renault will safeguard their interests (~money) or patriotism. ?

 

[flamer84]

IDK why western members are aloof from reality.
People migrate (legal/illegal) to former colonial masters country bcz they know the language. Indians prefer, UK, USA, Australia etc
France is surely a giant in Science and tech but we are discussing its politics.
Being rich is not a measure of prosperity. I bet Italy is more wealthy (not rich) in tradition and as society compared to US (Park in front of MIT university is famous as rape park bcz teachers & students don't go to parking w/o guard accompanying them)
http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/06...ronting-the-reality-of-target-rape-on-campus/

What is Switzerland economic model. They invited looters, from all over the world, to deposited their balck money in their banks. So Swiss got surplus cash to build themselves.
And Why Swiss chocolate is famous, despite they don't produce ounce of Cocoa beans. Will Nestle (swiss company) allowed, Cocoa producer (some african countries) making their own brand? Hell no!!! It will surely monopolize and cease such activities in these countries.

Lastly, European members, your country wealth/prosperity/money is not in your ownership (so yours chest beating for others achievements is pointless, Unless you personally have done something great yourself). My point is, making a jet engine is not my accomplishment nor yours.
Yes, you may belong to a great country but all the money belongs to Govt/Corporate sector/Industrialists/Banks etc.. And Its always, few people in every country who own these. Corporate people don't have nationality, but interests. You think D'assault, or Renault will safeguard their interests (~money) or patriotism. ?

First of all,most of the European chest thumping comes only as an answer after being insulted.You can't comment on anything in here without being called irrelevant,shitholes,dying countries,"we're going to conquer you by numbers" by the local butthurt brigade.I didn't see Europeans opening threads "we're so great,you're puny" but you can't even say anything about your country or the EU,despite being a citizen,without the thread being swarmed by idiots.

Second of all,Switzerland is more than meets the eye,if you'd check a little you see that they're a top investing country with good results when it comes to R&D.

 

[UKBengali]

Our defence budget (representing 1,5% of our GDP ) is already 2x Bangladesh's government spendings.
Central government spending is higher than Bangladesh's GDP.
Bangladesh has first,a budget that is half of our defence budget,and has a budget deficit of nearly 5%. LOL.

Should we believe that a backward country like Bangladesh will become more relevant and important than a €2,2Tn country ?
And it's good if your government can reduce the number of people earning less than 1$ per day....
Because we won't continue to grow (higher GDP,higher wages...) improve our public services,infrastructures etc ?


@flamer84

Such delusional members,are so funny. But the worst is that they live in the backward,irrelevant West.... enjoying high quality life....

Dude - I am not saying that BD will become more relevant than France at all in any of our lifetimes here. Stop distracting from the actual point which is that France is heading towards irrelevance as we speak. With the rapid growth that we are seeing in Asia especially, countries like France with relatively small populations will count for very little in world politics soon( say 2030 onwards). So France can be as bigoted as it likes in it's soon to be irrelevance.

@flamer84 : Why is a Romanian butt-hurt at a comment about France? Stop seeing everything as an "us" or "them" argument. My comment was directed at a particular bigoted country that happens to be both bigoted and Western at the same time. There are plenty of decent Western countries that choose to actually be tolerant rather than just pretending to be.

I will enlighten for I am kind.

Whenever a company like Dassault,or DCNS ,etc get these mega deals,it means one important thing.Money for them to continue R&D,R&D that keeps these countries ahead when they are allready ahead in so many fields towards other countries.With the population explosion Bangladesh's budget mainly goes to feed its people,it can't compete on science and technology,similar for many other countries like that.Your opinion on France tilting towards irelevance in the near future is just frustration.In the long future ? Who knows ? It could evolve into the United States of Europe or the Mediteranean Federation,etc but it can't be irrelevant just because it hoards and will continue to hoard technology and knowledge while countries like Bangladesh won't be ever capable of catching up.The head start is to great.

Germany leads EU and France is just a spectator now.

France had been pretending to be co-leader with Germany but it's poor economy has now put paid to that. It now takes German dictats on issues like immigration. Even Romania stands up to Germany more.

Countries like Germany are actually great while France pretends it is - if not for WW2 it would also totally dominate France in defence technology.

 

[flamer84]

@flamer84 : Why is a Romanian butt-hurt at a comment about France? Stop seeing everything as an "us" or "them" argument. My comment was directed at a particular bigoted country that happens to be both bigoted and Western at the same time. There are plenty of decent Western countries that choose to actually be tolerant rather than just pretending to be.

Given historical ties,common Latin ancestry,members of the Francophonie,being European citizens,a Romanian is 100 more times more entitled to talk about France than someone from the swampland of Bangladesh.

And no,you can dream of France becoming irrelevant,little people can have big dreams but ,as i've said,big populations and small brain counts for nothing.It will only lead to starvation.

 

[Freyja]

People migrate (legal/illegal) to former colonial masters country bcz they know the language. Indians prefer, UK, USA, Australia etc

Is that the reason Pakistani's like moving to Norway so much? Pakistanis are now our largest non-European ethnic group, overtaking Somalis.

@Armstrong kneel before your colonial master, knave!!!

Being rich is not a measure of prosperity.

Norway begs to differ. You get rich by being prosperous.

Lastly, European members, your country wealth/prosperity/money is not in your ownership

Once again, Norway disagrees.

Damn, we have a counterpoint for everything you're writing.

 

[Norwegian]

Is that the reason Pakistani's like moving to Norway so much? Pakistanis are now our largest non-European ethnic group, overtaking Somalis.

View attachment 302297

@Armstrong kneel before your colonial master, knave!!!



Norway begs to differ. You get rich by being prosperous.

Pakistanis love Norway that's all

 

[Armstrong]

Is that the reason Pakistani's like moving to Norway so much? Pakistanis are now our largest non-European ethnic group, overtaking Somalis.

View attachment 302297

@Armstrong kneel before your colonial master, knave!!!



Norway begs to differ. You get rich by being prosperous.



Once again, Norway disagrees.

Damn, we have a counterpoint for everything you're writing.

Never.....I will never bow down to you !

I am a proud son of a proud people; one day the Mandalorian warriors will rise again with me as their......ummmmh wait what were we talking about again ?

 

[Kompromat]

Prime Minister is trying to appease the rising far right which is France's real problem. If France wants to not be targeted by these attacks it should first stop invading Muslim countries. When you bomb other people, those people you kill are going to come after you. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure that out.

 

[Vergennes]

@UKBengali EU was more like a French-German idea,reason we call it "Le couple franco-allemand".

And no,you can dream of France becoming irrelevant,little people can have big dreams but ,as i've said,big populations and small brain counts for nothing.It will only lead to starvation.

France,has more contributed to the world in term of science,health,technology;physics,chemistry etc. than more populated countries like Bangladesh could ever do. It's good to have bigger populations,but if they are useless....
These people are just speaking with hatred of the West nothing more. They are blinded by real facts.

Prime Minister is trying to appease the rising far right which is France's real problem. If France wants to not be targeted by these attacks it should first stop invading Muslim countries. When you bomb other people, those people you kill are going to come after you. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure that out.

That's a BS argument. Even before the 9/11,Algerians were commiting terrorist attacks in France...

 

[Akasa]

There are two sides to the same story, (1) the moderate Muslims who feel disproportionately targeted due to the actions of a few, and (2) those who despise turning a blind eye against a problem they feel Islam should own up to.

There is an ambiguous but unequivocal threshold that delineates religious freedom and assimilation to societal standards, both of which need to be practiced and promoted. Whatever aspects of one's religion, or interpretation thereof, that he or she wishes to bring to another culture must first and foremost conform to the acceptable practices of that country's laws and society. At this point, neither Christianity or Islam, in their bare forms, are acceptable in almost any society on earth. Rather, it is the interpretation of those religions that must be moderated and honed by individuals themselves. That responsibility lies solely with the said individual, not the religion or government. Hence, as important as religious freedom is, careful adaptation of one's religious practices to those of a society, or the failure to do so, is ultimately the deed of individuals who interpret the said religion, not the religion itself.

 

[Freyja]

Never.....I will never bow down to you !

Not even for a chocolate chip muffin?

ummmmh wait what were we talking about again ?

Dunno. Something about pineapple I think.

 

[Kompromat]

Because French committed a genocide in Algeria!

@UKBengali EU was more like a French-German idea,reason we call it "Le couple franco-allemand".



France,has more contributed to the world in term of science,health,technology;physics,chemistry etc. than more populated countries like Bangladesh could ever do. It's good to have bigger populations,but if they are useless....
These people are just speaking with hatred of the West nothing more. They are blinded by real facts.



That's a BS argument. Even before the 9/11,Algerians were commiting terrorist attacks in France...