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Questions About Exploitation of Indian "IT Coolies"

I'm very happy for you and I hope you prosper further.

I will, however, tell you though that the story you narrate above is not the story of the 2-3M people involved in the IT industry in India. The bulk of these people are not paid wages like you. I don't like the "coolie" label and haven't used that word at all. It is demeaning to coolies - who work hard - and to IT workers. But if you've encountered personal success and have been able to buy a house and car, I don't think you should toot your horn about that especially because you are not talking about the vast majority of IT workers. The bulk of these folks work in call centers, or other indirect enablement positions and I guarantee you they don't own a 90lac home.

Anyway, I see you've decided to adopt a very sarcastic tone rather than attempting to discuss issues on their merit. If that's the road you want to go down, that's fine with me.

Now when you are into it, tell me

1. whats a fresher's salary in Indian IT industry.
2. How it compares to the other industries.

If you really know the answer then you would probably know why some of the Indian members are not too happy about the article by Riaz Haq. This is nothing but rant by a zealous delusional attention seeking personality.
 
Not many of the "IT coolies" are here in this forum. If he wants to help them, better start an IT education center for freshers in India.

Infact there is heavy need for them right now and companies are on a hiring spree.

Well if these coolies got salaries b/w 10k to 5 lac ......so i thing every one want to be "IT Coolies"
 
I think the author is stuck in the 90's. In those days, India was indeed given just programming jobs but that is certainly not the situation right now.

MNC R&D centers in India augment reverse brain drain

Sony Ericsson Setting Up R&D Center in India

Radware opens new R&D center in India

MVL Telecom to set up three R&D centers in India & China

'Multinational R&D centers in India foster innovation'

Brocade Sets Up R&D Center in India

How MNC R&D centers made India a job hub

India now stands third in Most attractive prospective R&D locations, See Figure 1

In the above reports, you will find that Cisco, GE, Dupont, Motorola and other hundreds of companies are spending billions of dollars to take advantage of Indian Entrepreneurship by setting R&D labs in India.

So, it would be unwise to say that Indian IT is "just cyber-coolie" and the theory of the author has been debunked.
 
Yes, you are right. They will not be happy, but war is war, and every serious study of outsourcing to India mentions a Pakistan-India war as the worst-case risk. By the way, they weren't happy the last time there was a serious escalation when India moved troops to the border. The management of GE intervened with the State Dept and got the US to pressure both sides to back down. That's what I was trying to say... MNCs should intervene pre-emptively and apply pressure however and wherever possible to get India and Pakistan to settle the issues of disputed territory etc.

In all wars between India and Pakistan we have not hit any civilian targets and only cowards do that so decide what you want to be. About Riaz in this recession he is trying to be journalist and thinks India bashing articles will sell well. He is pure jealous guy with no idea on India. Jealously is very clearly visible. Dude we have an IT empire you cannot even dream of.
 
TCS becomes 9th largest software co
TNN, Jul 3, 2010, 03.22pm IST

MUMBAI: Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) has become the world's ninth-largest software services company in terms of revenues, its chairman, Ratan Tata, told shareholders at the company's fifth annual general meeting.

The big daddies in the global IT industry include IBM with revenues of $96 billion, Microsoft ($58 billion ) and Accenture ($22 billion).

For the $6.3 billion-TCS , the focus now ‘‘ would be to climb the value chain in a bid to differentiate its services from competition,'' said Tata, who would step down from the chairmanship of the IT major in the next couple of years.

Several shareholders wanted to know how long Tata, who stood for re-appointment as director on the board of TCS, would continue as chairman. They suggested that like several other industrialists in India Inc, he should continue on the board as long as possible. Tata told shareholders: ‘‘ As far as I am concerned, I won't sit here as ex-chairman .''

TCS was started as a division of Tata Sons, the holding company of the Tata group, in 1968 to service the in-house electronic data processing needs. The company today is the largest software services firm in the country.

In a bid to be part of the top league, the company has been bagging clients across geographies , building domain expertise , besides adding on a large number of employees.
 
“Most Indian (call center) employees have a six-day, 60-hour week, with 30 minutes each day for lunch and two breaks of 15 minutes each to go to the toilet,” said one of the two Indian union leaders. Many Indian call center workers are recent college graduates, or those who dropped out of school at age 20, drawn by relatively high salaries for younger workers — 15,000 rupees a month, or approximately $318.

“The work intensity is very high,” in Indian call centers, Bhattacharjee said. And overtime pay is infrequent, if paid at all, the union leaders said.

CWA and Indian unions take on call centers peoplesworld
 
“Most Indian (call center) employees have a six-day, 60-hour week, with 30 minutes each day for lunch and two breaks of 15 minutes each to go to the toilet,” said one of the two Indian union leaders. Many Indian call center workers are recent college graduates, or those who dropped out of school at age 20, drawn by relatively high salaries for younger workers — 15,000 rupees a month, or approximately $318.

“The work intensity is very high,” in Indian call centers, Bhattacharjee said. And overtime pay is infrequent, if paid at all, the union leaders said.

CWA and Indian unions take on call centers peoplesworld

Thanks for acknowledging the salary part. :cheers:


:bunny::bunny::bunny:

Work intesity should be high as we aredealing with Internationals clients.. Its not an easy job and they are paid accordingly.. Even a school drop out can join there.

Its better than not having a job at all. And most of them gets promoted as time progresses and job section changes if you understand how office works..
 
Thank you pointing it out...my post also contains multiple quotes from thoughtful Indian columnists, commentators and industry people. There are quotes in it from Praful Bidwai, Harish Trivedi, an Indian blogger and an Indian IT worker...all expressing concern about the way the Indian IT industry treats its people.

After all, "cyber coolie" was invented by an Indian, not me.

I can understand the concerns of Bidwai, Trivedi, et al about Indian IT workers, given the Bhopal tragedy and its aftermath that shows how little Indian democracy cares for its people.

Praful Bidwai:

When someone quotes him on business matters, you know that they are clutching at straws. the guy is anti liberalisation, anti globalisation, anti American, anti nuclear, anti development communist basketcase.

But Mr Bidwai said it had little value to India's wider economy.

"It's a couple of billion dollars a year at the moment, which isn't a hell of a lot, even by Indian standards," he argued.

"Our exports of textiles, for instance, are much, much bigger

He said couple of billion dollars in 2003 when he supposedly coined the term, it was actually $9.5 billion but hey what's a few billion here or there when you need to spin a yarn. Well, it's $71.6 billion this year(2009 - 2010).
India’s Software Export Revenue to Grow by 13-14% in FY 2010-2011
Would anyone consider his point valid today?

As for Harish Trivedi, I can do no better than leave it to Gurcharan Das, the former India chief of P&G.

Cyber coolies or cyber sahibs?
MEN AND IDEAS/GURCHARAN DAS, Sep 7, 2003, 12.01am IST

The World as India’ is the title of a lecture that Susan Sontag gave in London last year, which was published in the Times Literary Supplement this June 13.

In it the distinguished writer celebrates the success of Indians in harvesting their legendary English-speaking skills in the global economy through call centres and other services. But Harish Trivedi, the no-less distinguished critic at Delhi University, promptly wrote an angry rejoinder in which he characterised call centres as ‘‘brutally exploitative’’ and its employees as ‘‘cyber coolies of our global age, working not on sugar plantations but on flickering screens, and lashed into submission through vigilant and punitive monitoring, each slip in accent or lapse in pretence meaning a cut in wages.’’

I have been associated with three call centres and I find Trivedi’s depiction truly bizarre. What he sees as exploitation by multinationals, the young boys and girls see as an exciting chance to work with the world’s top brands and acquire new skills to make a career in the global economy. It is true that many work the night shift but so do 21.2 per cent of all American workers. Yes, it isn’t much fun to persuade someone in Detroit to pay his credit card bill, but it does build valuable negotiating skills. Many call centre employees answer telephones but some also do highly skilled back office jobs on-line — for example, medical students prepare medical dictionaries, architecture students make detailed drawings for American architecture firms, accountants prepare payrolls. And if these are coolie jobs, why are labour unions in America and England so upset about job losses to India? Finally, Trivedi might ask, is it better to have an idle son at home or a productive one at work, earning Rs 10,000 a month (and if he is diligent, Rs 20,000 after three years)?

At the root of the dispute is ownership of the English language. Today’s confident young Indians view English as a functional skill, not unlike Windows or learning to write an invoice. When they speak English they feel they own it — ‘‘its another Indian language’’ — whereas Harish Trivedi’s neo-colonial English flies the Anglo-American flag. The minds of these ‘‘cyber coolies’’ seem to be decolonised whereas Trivedi’s is stuck in a post-colonial past.

We have always thought of English as the power language of India. Raghuvir Sahay, in a two sentence Hindi poem, caught it brilliantly: ‘‘The English taught us English to turn us into subjects/ Now we teach ourselves English to turn into masters’’ (which Trivedi quotes in a wonderful new book edited by Sheldon Pollock, Literary Cultures in History). But Star TV has now proven that when it comes to making money Hindi may in fact be the power language. When the old Star News in English changed to Hindi its audience share jumped from 2 per cent to 30 per cent, along with its share of advertising revenues.

Yet English remains the passport for every youngster who dreams of becoming ‘‘master of the universe’’. Sontag is on the right track. Business process outsourcing will create enormous number of jobs in India, and the first company to employ technology to teach quality English via language labs in franchised outlets across the bazaars of India will get rich. So, who is the coolie? Not the confident young person at the call centre with her liberated attitude to English, but Harish Trivedi, whose mind remains colonised in the old linguistic categories of post-colonial, pre-reform India.
Cyber coolies or cyber sahibs? - All That Matters - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

Bloggers & unknown software workers are dime a dozen. Makes no sense to reply to such comments.

Mr. Haq is entitles to any opinion he wants to hold. However his dragging in of comments made in 2003 in the year 2010 hardly bolsters his case. Gives his game away, don't you think?

A few more links suggesting otherwise from the premise of the threadstarter.

A quote from Narayana Murthy;co- founder Infosys in 2007
In the seventeen years since that day, Infosys has grown to revenues in excess of $3.0 billion, a net income of more than $800 million and a market capitalisation of more than $28 billion, 28,000 times richer than the offer of $1 million on that day.

In the process, Infosys has created more than 70,000 well-paying jobs, 2,000-plus dollar-millionaires and 20,000-plus rupee millionaires.
Life lessons from Infosys Narayana Murthy Inspire Minds

India to top Asia salary growth in 2010: Survey - Express India
 
“Most Indian (call center) employees have a six-day, 60-hour week, with 30 minutes each day for lunch and two breaks of 15 minutes each to go to the toilet,” said one of the two Indian union leaders. Many Indian call center workers are recent college graduates, or those who dropped out of school at age 20, drawn by relatively high salaries for younger workers — 15,000 rupees a month, or approximately $318.

“The work intensity is very high,” in Indian call centers, Bhattacharjee said. And overtime pay is infrequent, if paid at all, the union leaders said.

CWA and Indian unions take on call centers peoplesworld

What is wrong with that...if you don't want to work hard don't join the industry.

The fcking unions destroyed the auto industry in US.Bast@rds..I hope they burn in hell and die.

The second they unionize India's IT industry that is the day the industry dies.
 
Call centers give more money than a fresh graduate can get anywhere else... exploitation.what exploitation is anyone forcing anyone to join call centers?
 
@ Raiz Haq- try again.. Better luck next time .



regards :cheers::lazy:
 
Though India has/had low levels of IT innovation ,the trend is picking up.

Gradually Indian IT companies are moving up the value chain,so in next 5-10 years we can see a lot of startups becoming Global IT giants.
 
India's IT sector business is essentially driven by low-cost call centers, first-line tech support, simple repetitive code writing, and execution of pre-defined test suites. A typical Indian IT worker is increasingly being called a "cyber coolie" or sometimes a "code coolie", the former term having been coined by an astute Indian columnist Praful Bidwai back in 2003.

India has become the world’s top provider of business-process-outsourcing (BPO) call centers, with revenues nearing $50 billion a year by selling cheap back-office services. The call center revenue constitutes the bulk of India's IT exports.

Harish Trivedi of Delhi University has characterized India's call centers as "brutally exploitative" and its employees as "cyber coolies of our global age, working not on sugar plantations but on flickering screens, and lashed into submission through vigilant and punitive monitoring, each slip in accent or lapse in pretence meaning a cut in wages."

An Indian blogger Siddarth Singh says that "one cannot dispute the fact that our IT industry is at best a glorified labor provider, and our feted “IT Giants” have failed to provide even a single proprietary product which could create waves in the global IT industry (perhaps except Finacle, a banking and finance solution by Infosys, and which is used by a number of MNC banks around the globe).

Siddarth asks the question, "So, what does Indian industry actually excel at?" Then he offers the following answer: "Well, we are the leaders in the so called IT Enabled Services, or ITES. These are basically services such as BPOs, call centers, KPOs etc, which extensively use IT to provide backend and customer services to primarily overseas customers. That our ITES industry is hugely dependent on foreign clients is also not a secret anymore, with hardly any Indian company enlisting the services of such companies".

A recent letter from a Bangalore based Indian IT worker addressed to the editors "The Hindu" newspaper read as follows:

This is how people in the West have started referring to people in developing nations. In the old days, of course, we Indians were referred to as "coolies" because we provided cheap labour. Nowadays, we are being called "cyber coolies".

Why? Because most software companies find it cheaper to get their job done in countries like India and other developing nations. There are many people in the U. S. and Britain who raise a hue and cry when jobs get exported to countries like India — especially jobs related to call centres and the software industry.

The fact that they refer to us as coolies shows that they haven't lost their imperialist outlook....


People and the media are often misled by "R&D" in the name of some of the western companies' locations in Bangalore.

In reality, Bangalore appears to be the code coolie capital of the world...it's not about tech, it's about cheap labor performing low-level tasks at rock-bottom wages. It's just cost arbitrage in the service sector.

I have no doubt there are some smart techies in India doing leading edge high-technology work, but these are exceptions. The overwhelming majority of the so-called IT work in India is call centers or low-level routine software tech support, maintenance, testing, etc. which is widely described as code coolie work. It's mostly about cost arbitrage, not advanced tech.

The call center business in India is unregulated by government, exposing workers to working in small spaces for long hours, close monitoring, and harsh working conditions. This is of considerable concern to some of the call center workers in light of the Bhopal tragedy and its aftermath which are symptomatic of how little Indian democracy cares for its people...be they industrial workers or cyber coolies in bondage who are exploited, held back and their lives totally controlled by foreigners under the "high-tech" and "IT" labels.

Even the identities of call center workers are changed in the same way as were those of the African slaves in the West. They are forced to take on western names and put on fake accents to please their customers in the West for a few bucks. The sad part is that, after over 60 years of independence from the British, some of the Indians still crave western approval and boast about the polls showing high approval ratings of India in the US. It shows that Indians' mental slavery after "globalization" is much more powerful than the physical slavery they endured for over a thousand years.

There are reports that some of the cyber coolies of India are beginning to revolt, according to the Times of London. They are creating “e-unions” and are planning to target British and American clients in a campaign to improve their working conditions.

Some of them are now protesting over low pay and aggressive management that will not negotiate with traditional trade unions, according to the Times story.

Instead of appealing to the deaf ears of Indian government or unresponsive managements of Indian-owned BPO firms, their strategy is to approach their British and American clients for support. Those who refuse may face a sabotage campaign by the same workers who have helped cut their costs.

Haq's Musings: Indian IT Sweatshops Exploiting Cyber Coolies?

Mr. rizhaqq

plz register my strong protest no not for your usual BS and wet dreams but for highly racist term "Coolies".

Coolies was the same racist term against which Mahatma Gandhi fought in South Africa.

But, here i just register my protect to you, well knowing that it don't matter to you

thanks
 
TCS is now world's 9th largest software company

Now the focus would be to climb the value chain in a bid to differentiate its services from competition, says Ratan Tata

Saturday, July 03, 2010

MUMBAI, INDIA: Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) has been ranked the world’s ninth-largest software services company in terms of revenues, and the fourth largest in terms of net income and market capitalization.

This was announced by TCS at its Annual General Meeting (AGM) here on Friday.

Now the focus of TCS would be to “climb the value chain in a bid to differentiate its services from competition,'' said Tata group chairman Ratan Tata, who would step down from the chairmanship of the IT major in the next couple of years.

Ratan Tata also justified the high commissions being paid to the directors of TCS. TCS directors get commissions that amount to four times their salaries, which make them the highest- paid brass in the information technology (IT) sector.

"We have to pay those people who create wealth for others," Tata said in response to a question on this issue.

TCS is worlds 9th largest software company - CIOL News Reports

TCS to hire 30,000 this fiscal: Ratan Tata

Press Trust of India, July 2, 2010 (Mumbai)


Tata Consultancy Services Chairman Ratan Tata on Friday said the company is planning to hire around 30,000 employees this fiscal.


"We estimate our manpower growth would be 30,000 new people this year," Tata told shareholders at the company's annual general meeting here. The country's largest software exporter has 1,60,000 employees and had added 16,851 professionals in Q4 of the last fiscal.

Tata pointed out that in terms of global standing, TCS stands at the ninth position in terms of revenues, sixth in terms of profits, fourth in terms of market capitalisation and employee strength.

The US economy is recovering and it will sustain recovery more than Britain and Europe, Tata said, adding demand has started picking up and the share of IT services will increase.

The current European crisis has not hit the company hard, but its revenue has come down marginally, he said.

"Slowdown and the crisis affected the euro, but we have not seen any impact of the current European situation. We had client-specific issues and currency issues," TCS Chief Executive Officer N Chandrasekaran told reporters on the sidelines of the AGM.

"The share of our European revenue has come down from 30 to around 25 per cent," Chandrasekaran said.

The company's telecom revenue suffered significantly, as there was a drop in volumes from one large European telecom service provider, he added.

"Looking at the markets, North America continues to lead the major markets in terms of growth. The UK also grew but the rest of Europe remained slow and stagnant," Chandrasekaran said.

"Our scale in emerging markets like Latin America, China, the Middle East and Africa continued to grow and now contributes revenue of over $1 billion, but remains largely project-based and not annuity," he added.

Assurance, BPO and infrastructure services continued to grow at higher rates than the company average. TCS is also beginning to see larger deals coming through in the traditional application development and maintenance space as well, Chandrasekaran said.

Meanwhile, replying to a query on the Tata Group's retirement policy vis-a-vis his own retirement, Tata said, "We are also human and we must move on and others should get a chance to take our place."


Read more at: TCS to hire 30,000 this fiscal: Ratan Tata - NDTV Profit
 

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