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A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

Your wish is what a sensible person like Musharraf didn't want. Remember his Four Point Formula for Kashmir ?


That time for peace and cookies and milk is over

The honey moon period of 2005-2007 is gone and over with when Musharraf was in power

Realities of 2021
  • On going Curfew in Kashmir , commenced after a brutal shut down for Multi year
  • On going beat up of Sikh farmers
  • Illegal declaration of change of status of disputed land and an attempt to change demographical realities of region
 
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:coffee:

Please read comment above - Now time comes to squeeze the chicken neck
Here is why

Timeline

  • 1940-1947 British wanted to leave region due to WW2 taking it's toll really not enough man power to rule over places and lack of strength to control regions, a rather peaceful plan was put in place to form Pakistan and India
  • 1947 Pakistan was formed
  • 1947 India was formed under a temporary body/temporary constitution almost like military rule
  • Temporary body , enacted military operations to forcefully change demographics of Southern State
  • Temporary body further launched military actions in few regions which wanted to merge with Sindh
  • Temporary body enacted motions to make Kashmir Disputed and avoid a referendum
  • Some where along the lines the Temporary body was switched to state of India after all the illegal acts were enforced
  • While Pakistan/India got separation from British Rule under banner of democracy , Indians for large part used military as basis to control illegally acquired regions
  • Kashmir Freedom Movement started 1947
  • 3 Wars were fought with India and Pakistan and India fought 1 war with China in 60's
  • India between 1950-1971 continued to release flood waters in Eastern Pakistan committed economic genocide of Bangladeshi decedents and prevented their economy to flourish , examine floods in region and culprit
  • 1971 War with Pakistan
  • 1980's India messed up with Sikh and committed criminal acts in Sikh's holiest places
  • 1980- on ward started movement for Sikh Homeland
  • Between 80's -00's Indian Spy network organized bombings in Sindh Province and setup framework of mistrust the network was fully dismembered by Pakistan by Anti Terror Operations, Kal Bhushan was captured by hard work by security forces
  • Hard line Religion Based party took over Government 2005 on wards started next phase of Human Rights Violations, (Modi's Government)
  • The territorial integrity and Right of Kashmir was challenged by change of status of disputed land further escalating problems in region prior to pandemic start
  • Chinese Engineers were attacked and killed in Balochistan by Indian sponsored Terrorist

The Present
  • Kashmiri want out
    • Major unresolved issue in United Nation
  • Sikh want out
  • Referendum launched in UK By Sikh (between 2018-2020)
  • Eastern Regions want out (aka chicken neck dilemma)


Where we are headed ?
1636445893065.png
 
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Instead to keep your hand upper..
Pls donate Pak administered Kashmir to India and live with satisfaction.... You donated something to your arch enemy

I have a better suggestion. We go with my suggestion. And than we allow everyone from Indian side to move to AJK (all those who wants to). This way you will let go all those who want separation. As they will choose our side (as they claim their resistance is for the same cause).

Now the burden of free and Independent Kashmir will be on Pakistan's shoulders. Now we will be answerable to the international community about status of Kashmir while India will enjoy its part of Kashmir. Good for India. Good for Kashmiri Brahmans. Good for those UP'walas who wanted to marry Kashmiri girls. Enjoy :D


Pakistan will say, we did our part. We liberated 60% of it. Now we hope that is enough to satisfy everyone's ego and now I hope we will finally be free to trade and prosper while reducing our armed forces and its budget.
 
That time for peace and cookies and milk is over

The honey moon period of 2005-2007 is gone and over with when Musharraf was in power

Realities of 2021
  • On going Curfew in Kashmir , commenced after a brutal shut down for Multi year
  • On going beat up of Sikh farmers
  • Illegal declaration of change of status of disputed land and an attempt to change demographical realities of region

1. Curfew in Kashmir and lockdown for what nine months ? : A very wrong thing as also pellet gun usage. But the presence of hundreds of thousands of Indian government soldiers was I think also present during Musharraf's period. So what is much different to Musharraf's period ?

2. Oppression against protesting farmers ( Sikhs and non-Sikhs ) : Again wrong but generally nothing to do with Kashmir technically but if you want to use it to highlight human rights and work sector issues in India my OP is actually about radical political change in both India and Pakistan. You have to consider that too.

3. Your last point : The discussion of the first two will automatically resolve this one. But about demographics why do you want to tribalize Kashmir ? I mean keep it reserved only for Kashmiris ?
 
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I believe it is what is Pakistan and Pakistani Kashmiri want
We can't have the wishy washy hand shake drama

If India will impose 2-3 Millions Troops in region and try to introduce legislation to Legal Rights of regional occupied citizens of Pakistan - Yes Indeed there will be a massive retaliation

Imposing Curfew over 4-5 Million people and then expecting Cake Share party and Tea and Biscuit won't work

  • Indian Forces imposing curfew and forcing 4-5 Million Muslim to be imprisioned (Not an internal matter of India)
  • Sikh Farmers being beaten and on going violent rights curbing and denial of Sikh people right to form own country (Not an internal matter of India)

China has the Chicken Neck as well
5e622298c5e4274da80d6ead

good go ahead get it . if you can .
:coffee:

Please read comment above - Now time comes to squeeze the chicken neck
Here is why

Timeline

  • 1947 Pakistan was formed
  • 1947 India was formed under a temporary body
  • Temporary body , enacted military operations to forcefully change demographics of Southern State
  • Temporary body further launched military actions in few regions which wanted to merge with Sindh
  • Temporary body enacted motions to make Kashmir Disputed and avoid a referendum
  • Some where along the lines the Temporary body was switched to state of India after all the illegal acts were enforced
  • While Pakistan/India got separation from British Rule under banner of democracy , Indians for large part used military as basis to control illegally acquired regions
  • Kashmir Freedom Movement started 1947
  • 3 Wars were fought with India
  • India between 1950-1971 continued to release flood waters in Eastern Pakistan committed economic genocide of Bangladeshi decedents and prevented their economy to flourish , examine floods in region and culprit
  • 1971 War with Pakistan
  • 1980's India messed up with Sikh and committed criminal acts in Sikh's holiest places
  • 1980- on ward started movement for Sikh Homeland
  • Hard line Religion Based party took over Government 2005 on wards started next phase of Human Rights Violations, (Modi's Government)

The Present
  • Kashmiri want out
    • Major unresolved issue in United Nation
  • Sikh want out
  • Referendum launched in UK By Sikh (between 2018-2020)
  • Eastern Regions want out (aka chicken neck dilemma)

all on your keyboard and monitor . better solve problems of your country .
 
Forgot to Add

TICKING TIME BOMB

  • Just prior to Pandemic 230 Million Muslims launched a anti Modi Protest movement in order to object to rulings which were anti Muslim in nature inside India

  • The protest were direct result after Indian Human Rights Violation were exposed thru social media, the local population started to question if Kashmiri citizens can be beaten up by police and military , the same can happen to their family members inside India.

  • Much of these fears become reality in the Muslim Protest just prior to Pandemic, where Police/Military force was used to beat up people which further escalated the tension

  • The protest resulted in economic halt and had it not for pandemic , it would have continued to escalate further

It is well known fact that India also is enacting population reduction goals in Muslim Population centric States , these rulings have now started to be questioned by the Muslims inside India together with the general nature of affairs




The PROBLEM (Discuss it with Modi Sarkar)
  • 230 Million Muslim inside , ticking time bomb
  • Forcefully , imprisonment of Muslims in Kashmir (10 million people)
  • Beat up of Sikh Farmers inside India (10-15 million no doubt )

And then thinking of taking on Pakistan - China head on :laugh:


The situation is so bad now , that the Indians have to ask foreign governments to please do a press release that they
support Indian Territorial integrity , what ever that means?



Koon Si Territorial Integrity ?
1/3 population
is not on board with "India"

Kashmir & Sikh have already stated what they want that is a separate issue
 
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Forgot to Add

TICKING TIME BOMB

  • Just prior to Pandemic 230 Million Muslims launched a anti Modi Protest movement in order to object to rulings which were anti Muslim in nature inside India

  • The protest were direct result after Indian Human Rights Violation were exposed thru social media, the local population started to question if Kashmiri citizens can be beaten up by police and military , the same can happen to their family members inside India.

  • Much of these fears become reality in the Muslim Protest just prior to Pandemic, where Police/Military force was used to beat up people which further escalated the tension

  • The protest resulted in economic halt and had it not for pandemic , it would have continued to escalate further

It is well known fact that India also is enacting population reduction goals in Muslim Population centric States , these rulings have now started to be questioned by the Muslims inside India together with the general nature of affairs




The PROBLEM (Discuss it with Modi Sarkar)
  • 230 Million Muslim inside , ticking time bomb
  • Forcefully , imprisonment of Muslims in Kashmir (10 million people)
  • Beat up of Sikh Farmers inside India (10-15 million no doubt )

And then thinking of taking on Pakistan - China head on :laugh:


The situation is so bad now , that the Indians have to ask foreign governments to please do a press release that they
support Indian Territorial integrity , what ever that means?



Koon Si Territorial Integrity ?
1/3 population
is not on board with "India"

Kashmir & Sikh have already stated what they want that is a separate issue
Did you see the video?? Most of them carrying Indian flags..

You can be little more generous... You can add 2 or 3 zeros to your numbers .. it doesn't have Impact on anyone except it gives satisfaction of trolling.

Doubt about your name... Aazad Pakistan... From whom you want Aazadi??
 
Well the crowd still got attacked :coffee:

The 230 Million Ticking Bomb , keep pushing the button one day
The flag will be on floor and the 230 million group will join group demanding own state like Sikh

17india-explainer-1-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg



Too late now for these groups
  • First - Kashmir (10 Million)
  • Second - Khalistan (Sikh) (7-12 Million)
  • Third - Chicken Neck
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Muslims in India new group starting to wake up
  • Fourth - 230 Million Muslims in India - the ticking time bomb [Just starting to realize they are in bad situation]


Pakistan-China , you know clearly if they went in , what will happen


Considering the dynamics , It is better India simply gave Kashmir and let Sikh form their own state
Why lock horn with Pakistan-China ?
 
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I do not what you are smoking. I do not see where USA has abandoned India. There are lot of things short of deploying the USAF we can do to deter China and Pakistan
Your Govt & media were acting as a jealous widow for whole world to see. Why would USAF do anything to deter Pakistan & China?

Your govt builds a stadium, raises walls to hide slums, fills the stadium with record crowds, invites US president for inauguration, Then the same US president calls Pakistan a great ally. That should sum up your importance.
 
Your Govt & media were acting as a jealous widow for whole world to see. Why would USAF do anything to deter Pakistan & China?

Your govt builds a stadium, raises walls to hide slums, fills the stadium with record crowds, invites US president for inauguration, Then the same US president calls Pakistan a great ally. That should sum up your importance.

What stops you from trying out ?
 
kashmir-unrest.jpeg

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

Kashmir_map.jpg

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.
5dac32771ea6d.jpg

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.
Question why not a referandum?
My suggestion divide area into four parts Gilgit Baltistan, Kashmir Valley, Jammu Area and Ladakh. Do referendum in these areas. Who ever wins get that area. So both sides will get something and people of JK will get their wishes.
Another suggestion is, why not make it a totally independent country.
Or make it a state shared by both countries like Andorra.
 
Question why not a referandum?
My suggestion divide area into four parts Gilgit Baltistan, Kashmir Valley, Jammu Area and Ladakh. Do referendum in these areas. Who ever wins get that area. So both sides will get something and people of JK will get their wishes.

Well, it is not practical. The idea of referendum / plebiscite in the Kashmir region, like I indicated in the OP, won't be acceptable to the Indian Establishment and to many of the Indian masses who sadly have become ultra-nationalist. These particular Indians see the India-administered Kashmir region in an emotional way even if those emotions are misplaced and not caring of the emotions of the Kashmiris living in Kashmir. Some religio-nationalist Indians members of PDF have posted in the past that the Kashmiris wanting independence can go to Pakistan. So do you think such Indians will agree to a referendum ? There are three parties to the Kashmir conflict : Kashmiris, Pakistan and India, so all these parties have to be offered a logical solution. And if the solution will benefit India and Pakistan more broadly then more the better and that is my solution.

In 2001 for the Agra Summit, Musharraf had brought his Four Point Formula for Kashmir. It was a reasonable and practical one and even it did not propose a referendum. Musharraf had written down the points knowing that it would also be a big task to convince the Pakistanis back home to accept the formula. But it was a Kashmiri leader himself, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, and also the then Indian deputy PM, LK Advani, who rejected the formula. If the formula had been implemented we would have seen a peaceful Kashmir by now.

All in all, a referendum is not possible practically. :)

Another suggestion is, why not make it a totally independent country.
Or make it a state shared by both countries like Andorra.

Well, the first line was the suggestion by Gaddafi too in 2009 and that suggestion was cheered by the Kashmiris. He called for an independent Baathist state. Perhaps Baathists from Iraq and Syria could have helped the Kashmiris in making a progressive state. Maybe it could have served as an example for India and Pakistan to see the socio-economic and political benefits of living in a Socialist country. But again, I would say that instead of having a neighboring Socialist country why not India and Pakistan themselves become a Socialist or ideally Communist countries ? That is the essence of my OP. Please look at this proposal of mine for a progressive socio-economic system and this thread about how the pre-2011 Libyan Jamahiriya political system, a true democracy, was in action. Imagine these progressive systems for India and Pakistan. Will solve Kashmir automatically.

Pakistan Side is already decided , referendum only needed in India side :coffee:
Khalistan-new-map1635006780-0.jpg

Bhai jaan, why is your record stuck ? You are constantly talking about war and such. Be practical please. Please read above reply to Musalman.
 
Because referendum is already complete

Pakistan , added Northern Regions with Pakistan
Sikh did their own referendum

Case closed
 

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