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American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'


Above Program... Oct 5th...

Two days back In my dreams i also saw two A-10 Intruder into Pakistan's Airspace :P and behind Pakistan F16s. Within seconds both A-10 shotdown by F16 and 1 F16 belong to Pakistan crashed over civilian population.... don't know what exactly is going on. It true or not but i have also seen same dream :what:
 
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Javed Chaudhry offers an interesting story in Daily Express regarding the appointment of Chief of Air Staff.although its an old article
 
This is the latest news (2 Decemeber 2011):

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English:

KARACHI: An American official disclosed to Geo News that US is not going to vacate Shamsi airbase in near future and Washington is mulling various options.

The Obama administration is considering change in America's Pakistan policy but the decision to vacate Shamsi base has not been taken yet, he added.

'US considers Pakistan an important ally in war against terror and do not expect big change in ties.'

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Btw, similar demands were made some time ago (Jun 2011) and US said we wont vacate, whereas our ARMY/Politicians insisted they will vacate the base. Now who says our generals are not sellouts?

US rejects demand to vacate Shamsi base | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

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Edit: A bit of more history.

2005: Google earth images show drones parked in Pakistan. Pakistan (ISPR) as usual deny it.
2007: Pictures show Pakistani armed forces visiting US Drone's... Public still in denial
2009: Another news item confirms drones persence and the changes in shamsi base (http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=163174&Cat=2&dt=2/18/2009)
2011: Pakistan DENY again US had bases. Than after proven, they claimed they had NO idea (whatever) and actually they had given it to UAE sheikh for shikar (yeah, right...)
2011 June: Pakistan ask (yeah, right , again) to vacate shamsi airbase (link above)
2011 Nov: Nato incident. Pakistan asks US to vacate base.. (lols, right?)
2011 Dec: US refuses to vacate base..

now the future
2013: Pakistan denies US operating hundreds of personal at Shahbaz and Shamsi base
2013: Pakistan asks US to vacate shamsi base
2014: Pictures show americans have bases
2015: americans refuse to leave...
 
America wouldn't need to get engaged in a full scale war kinda scenario with Pak until its leaders both military and civilian buckle down to back room arm twisting by America . Why would America Attack Pak until their dictates have been listened to by the leadership without opposing it
 
Typical.... always conflicting news and statements, our media like DAWN, & GEO towing the enemy agenda.
 
This is what the WSJ article says:



Apparently, when fired at the copter, the NATO forces went back and communicated with the Pakistani command to ascertain the presence of the troops. Per their claims, after receiving a response in the negative, they took the posts to be those of the Taliban, and went ahead with the attack with full force.

And here's the flame:



The only line that may come out now will be... "What we've got here... is failure to communicate".

So, you guys are good with what the unnamed official sources have to tell, but not OK with the official version of ISPR. What an irony.

here, read this passage carefully from the first post of this thread:

" By 1 a.m. all channels of communications with the other side were activated and the helicopters were pulled back. But as Pakistani troops moved from one post to the other to assess the damage and aid the injured, the helicopters reappeared and pinned them down. Some 26 artillery airbursts were fired by the Pakistani side and the engagement lasted until 0215.

Answering a question, he said the civil authorities including the president, the prime minister and the foreign and defence ministers were informed in the “morning” about the incident which began around midnight and lasted for two hours.

The reason for the implied delay in informing the civil authorities, he said, was because a complete picture had not emerged until daybreak.

It was clear from General Nadeem’s briefing that there was misleading information being provided to the Pakistan military from the start. Just before the attack, a Pakistani officer at the regional tactical center was informed by an American sergeant that their special forces had received indirect fire from Gora Pai, located some 15 kilometres away from Volcano post. And after 7 minutes, a woman officer informed him that the fire had, in fact, come from Volcano, which had been hit in retaliation."


Read the bold parts and especially the red highlighted part, what ISPR said does kind of agrees with what this unnamed official said, that pakistanis were told about this thing before they gave the clear signal, but what the Americans told was 15Km away from where the post was. So may be this is what WSJ is talking about, they tell the Pakistanis who watch the map and see that we have no post nearby since Golra Pai is 15KM away from this very post and give the go ahead, but then the US changes their coordinates and start firing at the post. I wonder how in 7 minutes the coordinates changed 15Km from where the initial report of attack reported by the special forces.

I think the ISPR version is very much the real one since it is corroborating what the WSJ is saying, but NATO later changed the coordinates and fired deliberately on the post. May be WSJ is telling the half truth to hide their deliberate action. may be it was a deliberate planned mission, first ask the Pakistanis about a place which has no troops, and once get approval from them, attack the post and then blame it on the Pakistani coordinators at that centre.

Anyway, you guys keep believing the WSJ kind of unnamed officials, we will stick with the official Pakistani version. PA did thorough investigation and everything is simple, so should have been for the NATO officials since it not a difficult task to get the gun camera crew and see what the pilots were seeing, they get all their communication recorded, not hard to sit and listen to it in a few hours time and get a picture of what really happened. Simple process, since NATO is asking for few weeks to do the investigation, they will definitely hide the facts and the truth.
 
If this is indeed true, then What I suspect is the following 2 scenarios

1. Pakistan forces were involved in fire attack on NATO 300 or so yards away. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to deny their involvement in the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the source of attack which turned out to be the Paksitani checkpost

2. NATO forces came under attack from the vicinity of the checkpost from some militants. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to avoid any appearance of their involvement in the the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the area and Pakistani checkpost got caught in the fire storm.

So in every scenario that your present, NATO always comes right. This is the reason you shouldn't post because all your assessments reek of biased mentality that a handful of you display every opportunity. Thanks God, most of the Indians do not possess the same mentality.

And had there been any single attack on that Afghan side, they would have provided video evidence the same day of atleast some destruction or bullet holes! Dude, someday the situation will be reversed and hopefully I will have the opportunity to return this 'neutral observations'!
 
If this is indeed true, then What I suspect is the following 2 scenarios

1. Pakistan forces were involved in fire attack on NATO 300 or so yards away. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to deny their involvement in the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the source of attack which turned out to be the Paksitani checkpost

2. NATO forces came under attack from the vicinity of the checkpost from some militants. NATO inquired about presence of Pakistani forces in area. Pakistani command, to avoid any appearance of their involvement in the the attack, refused, never expecting a cross border attack.. NATO went ahead and blasted the area and Pakistani checkpost got caught in the fire storm.

The second one sounds very plausible to me, with a bit of modification though..

Frequent firings take place on the border between Pakistani and Afghan forces. The Afghans this time hosted NATO forces, that Pakistani side was not aware of. The NATO forces communicated with Pakistani high command about the presence of troops. Taking the matter lightly, as any other such firing in the past, Pakistani high command must have denied the presence. The NATO forces, assured they were under fire from terrorists wanting to cross the border, came down heavily on the posts.

However, when considering the US official's words, the only part I fail to understand is why would the Pakistani forces fire at the helicopter? That is like sending out an invitation to bring about a lethal attack, and that's exactly what happened.

Well, we are at acute dearth of information here, and it is all speculation until the reports and evidences are out. From Pakistan's side, we only got the words of the ISPR to believe. Let us see what comes from the west, just words again, or something to look at.
 
can any one answer this.?
1.are pakistani radars blind to see these AH-1s
2.why we got spada2000, HQ-9,crotale2000/4000,mistral,stringer(downed lot of hinds),rb-70 if it can't shoot a drone or nato aircrafts.?
3.the purpose of peshawar airforce base.?
 
Pakistan had given GPS coordinates of its checkposts to Nato. The question of Pakistani forces being in the area becomes null and void when you have a permanent presence there.

Who did they speak to? Such exchanges should have a detailed audit trail. Sounds like BS.

you didn't read the report i guess!!!
pakistani posts are more like make shift camps rather then being a permanent bases and that actually was a reason why they consulted coordination border center to have a go ahead

no one can deny and dispel the coordination border center because we all know both militaries cooperate explicitly and profusely, we also know a video of both armies mingling with each other probably on border center so above report should be given some credence
 


---------- Post added at 06:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 AM ----------

can any one answer this.?
1.are pakistani radars blind to see these AH-1s
2.why we got spada2000, HQ-9,crotale2000/4000,mistral,stringer(downed lot of hinds),rb-70 if it can't shoot a drone or nato aircrafts.?
3.the purpose of peshawar airforce base.?

Soldiers, who went for rescue were also killed by Apache.

SPADA2000 is for all out war senario.
 
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