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Army swoops on ‘CIA agents’

Hi,

i dont think they are arrested for helping to track OBL.... OBL wasnt an asset to Pakistan, he was a liability.

Surely there are/were sympathisers, but definitely not in the military. OBL even hinted on video that the Pakistani army was doing the devil's bidding and would be in their cross-sights as well. Why would our security services or intelligencia protect or assist him? Use some common sense.

Majority of Pakistanis dont even believe the Americans account of what happened. ''Buried at sea'' etc. etc.

WRT to this new spicy drama, those informants were arrested for assisting the intelligence services of another country.

Espionage is espionage, even if its for a ''good'' purpose.

Even the USA has arrested israeli mossad spies within US borders. This has happened several times. It's normal procedure. If Americans want our partnership to fight terror, then they should respect our borders and respect our concerns. Trust and partnership are a 2-way thing.

Pakistan has done more than its fair share to fight terrorism. And we have faced the retaliation by terrorists while Americans sit safe and sound. As long as Americans and NATO occupy Afghanistan, there will be radicalization, animosity and armed resistance towards it -- as was the case when the soviets occupied it...
 
One day you all can explain the dichotomy to the world. In the same thread, Pakistanis claim Osoma was not in Abbotabad, while saying it was good to arrest the people who betrayed him in Abbotabad. Does the split-personality slowly drive you all mad?

It's called different people having different opinions. Aren't you used to that in the US, or has that fallen out of favour in the WoT? That's right it's all USA USA USA nowadays.
 
What do the Americans expect, anyone found cooperating with a foreign spy agency has to be properly processed, and I hope tried for treason.
Is it treason? It seems undeniable that someone in the GoP made a decision not to enforce Pakistan's laws, or else OBL wouldn't be there in the first place. Isn't it patriotic and responsible to seek a suitable alternative, then? If not you accept the position that it is up to Pakistani officials to decide on their own unaccountable whim whether or not laws get enforced. That's rule-BY-law, not rule-OF-law, and that has no place in a democracy.
 
Is it treason? It seems undeniable that someone in the GoP made a decision not to enforce Pakistan's laws, or else OBL wouldn't be there in the first place.

please elaborate

Isn't it patriotic and responsible to seek a suitable alternative, then? If not you accept the position that it is up to Pakistani officials to decide on their own unaccountable whim whether or not laws get enforced.

if Americans believe Pakistan was complicit in protecting this purely symbolic figure (your former friend), then why funnel ''aid'' to the country and why even issue statements about ''repairing ties''

That's rule-BY-law, not rule-OF-law, and that has no place in a democracy.

a nation sees moral decline when it goes against its own principles.....isnt the very existance of Guantanamo Bay and use of rendition sites ''anti-American'' ?
 
Is it treason? It seems undeniable that someone in the GoP made a decision not to enforce Pakistan's laws, or else OBL wouldn't be there in the first place.
please elaborate
From what I've read from people who have claimed to have lived in A-bad, there is no way that OBL's presence wasn't known to Pakistani officials. Therefore since these corrupted Pakistani officials did not enforce the laws against terrorists, why would it be treason for patriotic citizens to seek out an alternative authority that would?

if Americans believe Pakistan was complicit in protecting this purely symbolic figure (your former friend), then why funnel ''aid'' to the country and why even issue statements about ''repairing ties''
I agree you questions have merit, but as I do not accept your labels my emphasis is rather different: it is Pakistan that has to prove itself, not America.

....isnt the very existance of Guantanamo Bay and use of rendition sites ''anti-American'' ?
I can always trust you to try to distract Pakistanis from issues of their immediate concern to phony ones. The fact that you aren't ashamed of repeatedly doing this says nothing good about you, does it?
 
From what I've read from people who have claimed to have lived in A-bad, there is no way that OBL's presence wasn't known to Pakistani officials.

i know almost every nook and cranny of ''A-bad'' like the back of my own hand.

actually at my late grandfather's residence in Lahore, we have neigbhours whom i have basically never seen. Always see luxury cars and armed guards, but the only sound coming from there is the diesel generator that comes on when there is a power cut.

people in place like ''A-bad'' talk and know about eachother, but doesnt mean that every single movement and character is tracked and noted. If the media is to actually be believed -- that OBL was in that compound for 5 years then yes, it's an intel failure indeed.

but i bet you that I could ''hide'''undetected for years in New York City's herald square --provided i never showed my face in public.


oh and by the way -- Americans should know that a lot of Pakistanis burn trash, a lot of houses have ''18 foot walls'' etc. etc. just in case you still thought that house was a billion dollar mansion (''compound'')


Therefore since these corrupted Pakistani officials did not enforce the laws against terrorists, why would it be treason for patriotic citizens to seek out an alternative authority that would?

if news reports are to be believed about ''major'' -- he reports to his own. Not to foreigners.

You have a ''trust'' issue with Pakistan, so you work with informants....that is unacceptable to us. Either work with the state, or otherwise declare us openly as your enemy. In betweens would not be acceptable --and I believe this has been made a bit more clear by these recent arrests.

(the same way I/we would expect arrest of those who are aiding and abbetting terrorists)

I agree you questions have merit, but as I do not accept your labels my emphasis is rather different: it is Pakistan that has to prove itself, not America.

are you sure about that?

even that God-forsaken royal thighness heading US state department acknowledged that US actions alienated and created trust deficit with Pakistan, in a speech some months back.

i will repeat myself --> trust and partnership are a 2-WAY thing.

dont remember that the ''raymond davis'' saga is still fresh in the minds of many....that severely damaged your credibility and image in Pakistan.

just imagine someone were contracted by ISI to spy and take pictures around the pentagon, fort hood, etc. and to add icing to the cake --shoot civilians and drive in cars with fake tags

I can always trust you to try to distract Pakistanis from issues of their immediate concern to phony ones. The fact that you aren't ashamed of repeatedly doing this says nothing good about you, does it?

always happy to bring things into perspective

and besides -- how does a chain-smoker try to tell someone else to refrain from smoking


there is no problem with American people, Suleiman. But your foreign policies especially in Middle East and South Asia as of late are leading to your total decline. You are shooting yourselves in the foot.

i dont think Gitmo Bay or rendition sites is ''phony'' because that would imply that they dont exist. That in itself if very anti-American!
 
The US Congress has acted and is suspending 75% of financial support to Pakistan until President Obama can lay out how the US funding will be used in support of the War on Terrorism as it is intended to be so used, not for other purposes.

thank God....please make it 100%

a binding and irreversible decision too.
 
ref:Pakistan army denies major’s arrest for CIA links | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

Pakistan army denies major’s arrest for CIA
linksAP
athar-copy.jpg

(1 hour ago) TodayPakistan military’s spokesman Maj-Gen Ather Abbas.—Reuters/File photo


ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani army denied Wednesday that one of its majors was among a group of Pakistanis who Western officials say were arrested for feeding the CIA information before the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

The New York Times, which first reported the arrests of five Pakistani informants Tuesday, said an army major was detained who copied license plates of cars visiting the al-Qaida chief’s compound in Pakistan in the weeks before the raid.

A Western official in Pakistan confirmed that five Pakistanis who fed information to the CIA before the May 2 operation were arrested by Pakistan’s top intelligence service.

But Pakistani army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas denied an army major was arrested, saying the report was ”false and totally baseless.” Neither the army nor Pakistan’s spy agency would confirm or deny the overall report about the detentions.

The group of detained Pakistanis included the owner of a safe house rented to the CIA to observe bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, an army town not far from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, a US official said. The owner was detained along with a ”handful” of other Pakistanis, said the official.

The Western officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence matters.

The fate of the purported CIA informants who were arrested was unclear, but American officials told the Times that CIA Director Leon Panetta raised the issue when he visited Islamabad last week to meet with Pakistani military and intelligence officers.

US-Pakistani relations have been strained over the raid by Navy SEALs on Pakistani territory, which embarrassed Pakistan’s military, and other issues.
 
Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, said in an interview with the Times that the CIA and the Pakistani spy agency "are working out mutually agreeable terms for their cooperation in fighting the menace of terrorism. It is not appropriate for us to get into the details at this stage." link

What incentive does the U.S. have to cooperate if Pakistan's response to intelligence shared is to arrest American sources?

And why should the Pakistanis here seek the arrest of these people? Under the post-911 U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373 Pakistan is under a binding sovereign obligation to root out terrorists and their havens.

gentleman can you do me a favor ask raymand davis what he was doing with TTP and why he was taking pics of
nuclear installation and why he tryed to supply Uranium waste( Supplied from America) to TTP? thanks in advance
 
i know almost every nook and cranny of ''A-bad'' like the back of my own hand...people in place like ''A-bad'' talk and know about eachother, but doesnt mean that every single movement and character is tracked and noted.
Thank you for the education.

if news reports are to be believed about ''major'' -- he reports to his own. Not to foreigners.
I don't doubt this. If American officials believe that OBL would have been tipped off if they had informed Pakistan, then the ISI must have had a human asset nearby to communicate with OBL in an emergency. (A phone call would have been detected.)

You have a ''trust'' issue with Pakistan, so you work with informants....that is unacceptable to us. Either work with the state, or otherwise declare us openly as your enemy. In betweens would not be acceptable --and I believe this has been made a bit more clear by these recent arrests.
I understand that the rest of the world works one way but Pakistan desires America to conform to its desires.
i will repeat myself --> trust and partnership are a 2-WAY thing.
Even Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. tells us not to trust the head of the ISI, something the ISI chief complained about in parliament last month.

dont remember that the ''raymond davis'' saga is still fresh in the minds of many....that severely damaged your credibility and image in Pakistan.
And damaged the Pakistan's reputation with the American gov't, as Pakistan admitted just before Davis was released (ransomed?) that immunity had been applied for him and the MFA had not filed an objection. That means that under international law meant Davis had diplomatic immunity and his arrest by Pakistan was a treaty violation that the GoP concealed for weeks.

just imagine someone were contracted by ISI to spy and take pictures around the pentagon, fort hood, etc. and to add icing to the cake --shoot civilians and drive in cars with fake tags
I'm not sure that hasn't already happened.

how does a chain-smoker try to tell someone else to refrain from smoking
If you want to stop being the ISI's lapdog there is only one way I know of: confess and expose all you know, as openly and publicly as possible. The result should be the re-establishment of the rule of law. (This was the technique Natan Sharansky employed to damage the KGB informant network while he was a political prisoner in Soviet labor camps.)
 
Report of CIA informant arrests another blow to Pakistan's military

Already beset by unprecedented criticism, Pakistan's military now tries to head off reports that an Army major was arrested for informing the CIA of activities on the bin Laden compound.

By Issam Ahmed, Correspondent / June 15, 2011
Islamabad, Pakistan

A report alleging that a Pakistani Army major was among five CIA informers arrested for gathering intelligence on Osama bin Laden's compound could further harm the Army’s image, which is facing a rising backlash at home.

“If a serving officer was reporting to the CIA instead of his own officers, that would be a great breach of discipline,” says security analyst and retired Gen. Talat Masood.

According to the New York Times, an Army major provided information such as license plate numbers of vehicles entering the bin Laden compound in Abbottabad prior to the raid. The Army tersely refuted the report on Wednesday, stating: “There is no army officer detained and the story is false and totally baseless” in a press release.

But that statement could mean that the officer in question was retired, says Masood. An Abbottabad resident who asked to remain unnamed because of the sensitivity of the situation told the Monitor that four civilians and one retired Army major were arrested.


A Pakistani newspaper editor who also asked to remain unnamed told the Monitor that a senior civil administrator from Abbottabad also confirmed the arrests and said they took place in a house owned by an Army major.
Unprecedented criticism amid a series of setbacks

The reported arrests are the latest in a series of major setbacks to the Army’s public image, which have brought about calls for greater civilian oversight over military and intelligence affairs.

These began in early May following the bin Laden affair, which raised questions over the intelligence failure and the Army’s ability to protect its sovereignty, and is being investigated by a parliamentary commission.

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The Army is also currently investigating naval officers’ ties with Al Qaeda in the aftermath of an audacious attack on the Mehran Naval base in Karachi last month, which resulted in the loss of 18 lives and the destruction of two US-made P-3C Orion aircraft. The scope and nature of the attack have led many to speculate that it could not have been carried out without insider help.

“The Pakistan military is looking inward and trying to deal with this phenomenon of the insider threat. So these arrests [of CIA informers] represent that particular trend,” says Rifaat Hussain, a defense analyst at Quaid-i-Azam university in Islamabad. Maintaining “external ties” are forbidden for soldiers the world over, he adds.In addition to public disapproval, the Army and intelligence services are also facing criticism from the media that is reaching levels unprecedented in Pakistan's history. Among other criticisms, the media has condemned both a lack of competence and of accountability.

Journalist Saleem Shahzad, who was investigating the naval base attack, was killed in May in an unsolved murder after telling a human rights activist that he had been threatened by intelligence agents. Last week, an unarmed man was shot dead by paramilitary Rangers in Pakistan’s port city of Karachi. On Wednesday, hundreds of journalists gathered outside Pakistan’s parliament in Islamabad to protest the killings.
Increased tensions between Pakistan, CIA

According to Dr. Hussain of Quaid-i-Azam university, the arrests also highlight the depth to which relations between the CIA and ISI have plunged as they attempt to create “new terms of engagement” in the aftermath of the bin Laden raid and the Raymond Davis affair. Mr. Davis, a CIA operative, was captured and subsequently released after fatally shooting two Pakistanis in unclear circumstances in January.

An ISI official told the Monitor that joint US-Pakistani counter terror operations have stopped completely in the aftermath of the Davis incident, from an average of 10 per month in the 18 months leading up to that event.

Last week US Defense Secretary Robert Gates expressed disappointment over a failed raid against two bombmaking factories in Pakistan's North Waziristan region. Militants from the Haqqani network were apparently tipped off after American officials briefed their Pakistani counterparts and asked them to carry out the raid.

On Tuesday a Congressional panel deemed that 75 percent of a $1.1 billion military aid package for Pakistan be withheld until President Obama reports on how the money will be spent.

Such moves are likely to deepen Pakistani suspicions toward the US, says Hussain. Pakistani authorities remain wary over the “American footprint” in Pakistan, adds Hussain. He cites the Pakistanis' decision to ask America to send back a large contingent of US Special Forces who were sent to Pakistan’s Tribal Areas on training missions as well as requests for the CIA to reduce its presence, which the US believes will undermine efforts to carry out counter-terror operations.

Ben Arnoldy contributed reporting.
 
ref:Pakistan arrests five men for helping CIA spy on Bin Laden house | World news | The Guardian

Pakistan arrests five men for helping CIA spy on Bin Laden houseGroup helped run CIA hideout in Abbottabad and watched comings and goings at fugitive's compound, officials say
Boys-play-cricket-near-Os-008.jpg

Share340 Declan Walsh in Islamabad guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 15 June 2011 12.58 BST Article history
Boys play cricket near Osama bin Laden's last hideout in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The country's top intelligence agency has accused five men of helping the CIA to spy on the compound. Photograph: Asif Hassan/AFP/Getty Images
Pakistani intelligence has detained five alleged CIA informants who spied on Osama bin Laden in the months before the al-Qaida chief was killed in a special forces raid, US and Pakistani officials have said.

The Pakistani informants noted the details of vehicles visiting Bin Laden's house in Abbottabad, 35 miles north of Islamabad, and helped run a nearby house from which CIA spies watched the al-Qaida leader.

A Pakistani official said the owner of the CIA hideout had been arrested along with several other people.

A military spokesman denied a New York Times report that a serving army major had also been detained. The arrests highlight continuing tensions between the US and Pakistan in the wake of Bin Laden's death. They are likely to intensify pressure from senior Washington politicians to cut Pakistan's $2bn annual aid package.

Last week the CIA chief, Leon Panetta, visited Islamabad to meet the Pakistani army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, and the head of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI), General Shuja Pasha. Pakistani officials said Panetta was issued with stern warnings about CIA activities in Pakistan.

US media said Panetta had confronted the Pakistanis with video footage that showed militants fleeing a bomb factory in Waziristan shortly after the CIA had informed the Pakistani military of its location.

The CIA hideout in Abbottabad was set up some time after last August, when the CIA began to suspect Bin Laden could be hiding in the area, less than a mile from a major Pakistani military facility.

Watching from behind mirrored glass, CIA officials used telephoto lenses and infra-red imaging equipment to establish a "pattern of life" inside the compound and eavesdropped on voices inside. But they never conclusively identified Bin Laden.

A Pakistani official said the Americans hired locals because "the presence of white caucasians in Abbottabad would obviously have drawn attention". Since being arrested men have claimed they did not know they were working for the CIA.

"Some are saying they didn't know they were working for a foreign organisation. They said they were approached by a Pakistani, reported to a Pakistani and they weren't spying on Pakistan – they were spying on terrorists," he said.

One of those detained was believed to be a medic with the army medical corps, the official said. But the army spokesman said that was not true.

The arrests may bring fresh attention to a house 200 feet behind Bin Laden's back wall, on the far side of a field. Neighbours say it is owned by a serving army major.

The nameplate, which read Major Amir Aziz, was removed within days of the raid. The occupants of the house refused to answer the door.

A US official said only one of the arrested men was "related" to the US government and he was not a military official.

Pakistani officials insist they are within their rights to crack down on soldiers or civilians involved in foreign espionage. "No country would allow its officials or people to spy for another country," said one.

But American anger is fuelled by Pakistan's failure to locate any of the people who helped protect Bin Laden in Abbottabad for up to six years.

In a closed briefing last week senior congressmen asked the CIA deputy director, Michael Morell, to rate Pakistan's counter-terrorism cooperation on a scale of one to 10. "Three," replied Morell according to the New York Times.

Positions are hardening in Pakistan too. The military has shut down a US military training programme for the Frontier Corps paramilitary force, which leads the fight against the Pakistani Taliban in the tribal belt.

Last week the army leadership disputed US claims of $15bn in aid over the past decade. The true figure was $1.4bn with another $6.2bn going to the civilian government, a statement said.

The ISI is trying to expose undeclared CIA agents by scrutinising visas issued to suspicious foreigners. A US citizen living in Islamabad and married to a Pakistani has been arrested and charged with "anti-state activities".

Senior US officials have warned their Pakistani counterparts that if US personnel are barred from Pakistan, the CIA will find other ways of conducting espionage including drawing on the large Pakistani-American Muslim diaspora.

The CIA's biggest worry, though, is that Pakistan will restrict drone strikes against militant targets in the tribal belt. These attacks have continued unhindered since Bin Laden's death.

Some drones take off from an airstrip in western Balochistan province but are being moved to Afghanistan as a contingency measure.

A senior Pakistani official said the dispute represented a clash between "Pakistani hyper-nationalism and American arrogance".

"The lesson we should have learned from the OBL raid is that America has the power to circumvent us. Instead we've gone into chest-thumping nationalist mode, and that's not helping," he said.
 
We should sort out these bastards (spies) and the cia operatives!


And the corrupt political leadership tht allows US influence in Pakistan!

Enough is enough ....... USA has got to go.
 
5 more raymond davis' caught

good job. any foreign intelligence agents should be held and tried.
why do Americans seemed so shocked?
 
Yes the leadership at the top of the ISI is undemocratic, unfaithful to duty to NATO alliance in War on Terrorism, and more concerned with financing, equipping and supporting terrorist militar for the fantum war with India that is never to be as India is not the natural enemy of Pakistan. Pakistan's biggest enemies are within, the pro-Wahabbist, robber barons who use religion rather than understand, believe and practive peaceful Islam as their individual faith system of person choice.
 

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