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Catalan referendum: Voting begins amid police crackdown

The referendum is illegal. The spanish constitution doesnt allow it.

The referendum is done by criminals. The majority of people there dont vote, because the majority stands for spain. Only the most fanatic ones go vote. Which makes that referendum an absolute farce.

The EU already said it will not accept this referendum. Its just a big show. Just as the EU also dismisses the referendum of the Kurds.

In the end nobody will accept it. If we follow that road, where would it stop?



You seem to be one of the few here who actually understand whats going on and where this rubbish would lead to if accepted.
if most people would not have voted, it would have strengthened the argument of madrid...
but they know separatists got overwhelming support in catalan... so they panicked... only a cowardly govt uses such force in europe....

the best course of action would have been to ignore it.. now I doubt a single person in catalonia will oppose independence... they got the sympathy of the world too.. whether it materializes or not is another issue.
 
if most people would not have voted, it would have strengthened the argument of madrid...
but they know separatists got overwhelming support in catalan... so they panicked... only a cowardly govt uses such force in europe....

the best course of action would have been to ignore it.. now I doubt a single person in catalonia will oppose independence... they got the sympathy of the world too.. whether it materializes or not is another issue.


Wrong. In all previous referendums seperatists lost. Rajoy did what evry government must do, prevent an illegal step. The referendum is illegal by the highest court. With that its not allowed to happen We are in Europe, not in some oriental tinpot country.

They did not get any sympathy. Evry European country disapproved this step.

Go Catalans, it's your right :)

ltaly is next.


I think Kurdistan comes first.
 
Wrong. In all previous referendums seperatists lost. Rajoy did what evry government must do, prevent an illegal step. The referendum is illegal by the highest court. With that its not allowed to happen We are in Europe, not in some oriental tinpot country.

They did not get any sympathy. Evry European country disapproved this step.




I think Kurdistan comes first.
this time it was different... and they are going to win by landslide in future.
of course europeans are afraid, they dont want further division..
spanish police acted as some 'oriental tinpot country' thats the problem...
 
This will open the Pandora's box. Uncontrolled immigration, rapid climate change - and now regional conflicts. You can find regions as Spanish Catalonia in every European country.
 
I hope we do not see ETA coming back as well. The stuff that went on today was just insane, especially considering this is meant to be Europe.....
 
I hope we do not see ETA coming back as well. The stuff that went on today was just insane, especially considering this is meant to be Europe.....

Illegal or not,supporting it or not,this didn't justify the shocking violence used by the Police sent by Madrid,especially on peaceful protesters. Young,old,nobody were spared.

Police were even beating firefighters who were protecting the crowds. I didn't know we could sink to such low levels...

What strikes me the most is the total silence of European leaders to condemn the violence,but as far as I am aware,only the Belgian PM did so.

Had this happened in another country they would be the first to condemn the "shocking violence" and tell about their 'concerns'.
 
There are deeper divides than just 20% GDP & $12Billion more in taxation than benefits.

Catalonia has Spain's best healthcare system. 2 of EU's best Business schools are there.

Spain has effectively muffled Catalonian spirit of mercantilism. It takes months to register a business, Spain sets taxation, laws, and school curriculum.

Every FC Barcelona game the Spanish National Anthem is booed and spoken over. FC Barcelona slogan of "More than a Club" was/still is a finger to Madrid.

While Spanish Police set by Madrid attack Catalonian voters, Catalonian Police/Firefighters/Medics are protecting voter lines.


 
Illegal or not,supporting it or not,this didn't justify the shocking violence used by the Police sent by Madrid,especially on peaceful protesters. Young,old,nobody were spared.

Police were even beating firefighters who were protecting the crowds. I didn't know we could sink to such low levels...

What strikes me the most is the total silence of European leaders to condemn the violence,but as far as I am aware,only the Belgian PM did so.

Had this happened in another country they would be the first to condemn the "shocking violence" and tell about their 'concerns'.

But you do realize that French protests/strikes are famous for violence and rioting? People in Germany usually complain about the violent tendencies in your country. So stop being so conceited.
 
Illegal or not,supporting it or not,this didn't justify the shocking violence used by the Police sent by Madrid,especially on peaceful protesters. Young,old,nobody were spared.

Police were even beating firefighters who were protecting the crowds. I didn't know we could sink to such low levels...

What strikes me the most is the total silence of European leaders to condemn the violence,but as far as I am aware,only the Belgian PM did so.

Had this happened in another country they would be the first to condemn the "shocking violence" and tell about their 'concerns'.

My friend I could not have said it better myself. The scenes with the firemen being beaten were just nauseating. I don't know if you got to see the Catalan regional police in a face-off with the Spanish police? That was even worse, and could have ended up in deadly confrontation between the two.
I'm appalled at how European leaders have not said a word and you hit the nail square on the head that had this been some Asian, African, South American state doing the same we would hear the cries of foul play all night long.
But yet in the heart of Europe, the home of liberal democracies, we are seeing what can only be described as scenes going back to just before the outbreak of the second world war, and you I'm sure you know what I am talking about.
 
Rojo is a moron, by intimidating voters he guaranteed a YES vote. According to initial results 90% of votes are for independence. On a reasonable turn out of 42%.

Catalonia is independent of Spain, the people have spoken. The only way Spain can retain control is by occupation.
 
Pro-Russian networks see 2,000% increase in activity in favor of Catalan referendum
Right-wing, pro-Trump media in the US join Russian-funded outlets in effort to portray the EU as divided

David Alandete
Director Adjunto de El País
1 OCT 2017 - 14:54 CEST
The Russian meddling machine has intensified its efforts on social media to deepen divisiveness in the final hours before the Catalan independence referendum of Sunday. Pro-Kremlin Twitter accounts increased their mentions of the Catalan crisis by 2,000%, according to social conversation analysis tools. The attempt to hold an independence referendum has gotten star treatment not only in channels directly funded by the Russian government, but also from accounts that trade in conspiracy theories and helped Donald Trump become the US president.


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The charts demonstrate increase in the use of the hashtag 'Catalan' on Twitter accounts identified as having a relationship to Russia. An increase of 2,000% in the mentions of that hashtag has been seen in the last 48 hours, in the chart on the left. The chart on the right shows the use of the hashtag tracked since September 24. securingdemocracy.org
One of the biggest cogs in the Trump machine is InfoWars, an empire led by Alex Jones, a known instigator of conspiracy theories. On Wednesday, broadcaster David Knight falsely claimed that 700 mayors had been arrested in Spain and that the government is preparing an invasion of Catalonia by sea. He then criticized Trump for not supporting secession because “this country [the United States] was founded on the right of self-government and self-determination.”

On Thursday, Knight was at it again, this time to comment on information published by EL PAÍS on Russian interference in Catalonia: “If the Russians control social media and if the Russians controlled Facebook, as we are being told now by the Democrats, Hillary Clinton and even the Spanish government… then why are they banning Facebook?” The InfoWars site, where these videos and podcasts are broadcast, has more than 6.5 million unique users per month, according to the company itself.


The Drudge Report, a tabloid website equally faithful to Trump, opened its evening edition with a photo from the Diada, or Catalan National Day, covered in independence flags and the generic title “Fight for Catalonia.” On September 20, the media think tank Media Matters referred to Matt Drudge, director of that portal, as a “pipeline for Russian propaganda” in the US. According to InterMarkets, The Drudge Report has 19 million unique users per month.

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The idea of a disintegrating Spain is part of the anti-EU rhetoric that both Trump, and the nationalist groups that support him, have exhibited. One of those anonymous accounts, @WillyClicks, with 23,000 followers on Twitter, said on Thursday: “Franco is dead. Spain is a failed state. Stop delaying its dissolution. Support Catalonia!”

The 2,000% increase in Catalonia-related online activity in Russia detected by the tool Hamilton 68, not only involves anonymous accounts, but also a sudden interest in this crisis by famous social media users from the US, including Jack Posobiec, a far-right agitator who has been retweeted by Trump himself. These past couple of days Posobiec has shared links about the measures taken to prevent the vote in Catalonia.


The great provocateurs in Trump’s America have thus joined media outlets that are directly subsidized by the Russian government, such as Sputnik or RT. The latter has notably intensified its production of content about the Catalan crisis on its networks, both in English and Spanish, with headlines such as "Echoes of Franco in Spain’s ‘political repression’ of Catalonia.” On Friday, RT’s Spanish edition published 11 articles on the subject. In the past, this outlet has been involved in other controversies, particularly over its role in promoting Trump during the US campaign.

According to a US intelligence report released in January, RT is the Kremlin’s main international propaganda channel and directly “staffs RT and closely supervises RT's coverage, recruiting people who can convey Russian strategic messaging because of their ideological beliefs.” The RT editor-in-chief is Margarita Simonyan, who “has close ties to top Russian Government officials,” according to the US intelligence report. On Wednesday, Simonyan shared a video in Russian on Twitter (@M_Simonyan, 540,000 followers) criticizing EL PAÍS’ information, adding the sarcastic message: “In Catalonia, we have also hacked and manipulated, etcetera.”


RT maintains a close collaboration with Julian Assange, as the US report highlights. These ties have been evident in the case of Catalonia. According to the same report, RT’s editor-in-chief met the Wikileaks founder at the Ecuadorian embassy in London in 2013. “Russian media subsequently announced that RT had become ‘the only Russian media company’ to partner with WikiLeaks,” according to the report.

Accordingly, Assange has intensified efforts to make the Catalan crisis a global trend on social networks, always from his particular point of view. On Friday, he accused Spain and Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy of having triggered the first world war through Internet censorship. His message was shared 14,000 times on Twitter. Before the Civil Guard took action to prevent an electronic vote tally, Assange himself also recommended via Twitter sending in the ballots via Telegram, an application developed by a company based in Russia.


Ecuador, which hosts Assange at its embassy in London, believes that taking sides in the Spanish crisis violates the terms of his political asylum. Ecuadorian President Lenin Moreno revealed on CNN Wednesday that he has asked Assange, “in a cordial way, to stop commenting on the politics of Ecuador or its allies, because his condition does not allow it.” Assange responded on Twitter on Thursday: “If President Moreno wants to gag my reporting of human rights abuses in Spain he should say so explicitly--together with the legal basis.”

The framework of Russian influence has not only provided support for independence in the form of propaganda. On Tuesday, EL PAÍS, quoting sources in the Civil Guard, revealed that several Russian hackers have helped to maintain census websites active for the Catalan regional government. Such logistical assistance may be more necessary than ever, given that the Civil Guard shut down electronic vote-counting in the regional government’s telecommunications center.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/01/inenglish/1506854868_900501.html
 
They say catalonians should abide the Constitutional courts decision meaning no support for Catalonians, meanwhile they even demanded that pkk gets removed from terror list, hypocrites....

Btw: the chef of Greens is Cem Özdemir, notice the pkk flag in the background.

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hypocrites this is the moment our politicians should slap them in the face

idk why i feel Turkmenistan should send weapons and explosive and trainers to Catalan but i promise to the Europeans i will take them back when Isis is defeated :lol:
 
Soros today watching the news " i love the sound of protesters in the morning"
 
I think italy will follow, probably the northern part forming a new country.
 

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