Changing demographics and standards in the Army

[qsaark]

Hello enigma947,

For some reason that I fail to understand, you are addressing to me in quite a strong language or style. I don’t think I am saying much different than what you are saying still you are trying to handle me as if I am an adversary of you or what. That is not the healthy way of debating. I'll come back to your reply once I get some time. Until than I request you to chill yourself up and take me as a person with a relatively different point of view rather than as your enemy. I understand that several Military people think themselves as superior to the civilians but I am not one of those ‘bloody civilians’ who get intimidated by the military personnel. For a good part of my life, I have moved in an elite circle of top civil and military bureaucrats (thanks to my Dad), so I have no inferiority complex whatsoever.

 

[Xeric]

Hello enigma947,

For some reason that I fail to understand, you are addressing to me in quite a strong language or style. I don’t think I am saying much different than what you are saying still you are trying to handle me as if I am an adversary of you or what. That is not the healthy way of debating. I'll come back to your reply once I get some time. Until than I request you to chill yourself up and take me as a person with a relatively different point of view rather than as your enemy. I understand that several Military people think themselves as superior to the civilians but I am not one of those ‘bloody civilians’ who get intimidated by the military personnel. For a good part of my life, I have moved in an elite circle of top civil and military bureaucrats (thanks to my Dad), so I have no inferiority complex whatsoever.

Hi Qsaark!

Well that is the case then please accept my apologies. They aim was not to harass you . i just got carried away because i have been answering to BS too much too long now. i never wanted to confront you, i know that we are on the same track and have a common aim in mind, so why the dispute? So dear we have nothing to fight about, just giving my piece of brain, but may be i was harsh. If you feel that i was i have already apologized for that.

And as for your point concerning the superiority/inferiority complex it is nothing to worry about. There is nothing as such. No one is inferior or superior, it's just the gap in brains. No military officer is superior, may be the institutions itself is. But yes when military kicks someone (placed under supervision of the military) who is not working properly and talks high about the hard work that the military does, people 'mistake' it and blame the officers of boasting their superiority.

Lastly, if you think that you can so 'easily' be intimidated then i guess i'll sugar coat my words next time

P.S. For a good part of my life, I have also moved in an elite circle of top civil and military bureaucrats but without the help of my Dad

Again i dont want to have a misunderstanding with a worthy member like you, so chill!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i just got carried away because i have been answering to BS too much too long now.

I can attest to the fact that plenty of BS from some of our friends across the border and our ostensible 'allies' has been flying 'fast and furious', and its bound to get people ornery.

However, lets all of us make a conscious effort to not allow that to impact the remainder of our discourse.

The posts on this thread, from all participants, have been very, very enlightening, and a big thank you to all of you.

Please continue in the same vein.

 

[qsaark]

First, Qsaark, it is the Army, not Ministry of Education that could go on school-construction-spree in Balochistan. This should be thought about by the govt, i think the military is part and parcel of this country and not a 'sotaila' institution. It should be the govt that should worry about these things-more induction of Balochs in the military.

In several of my posts, I have suggested that Army should establish more Army Public Schools and Cadet Colleges that should be maintained and run by or under the supervision of the Army. I am not talking about the general education, for that there are other Schools, but Army/Air Force Schools and Cadet Colleges are different. In order to broaden the base of recruitment for the Army (as well as for other armed forces/para-military etc.), we need to educate the kids and their parents. Army Public Schools and Cadet Colleges can do this much better than regular Schools and Colleges. A friend of mine (now a Major in Army) studied in PAF School Samungli, Quetta (now Fazaia Inter College Samungli I guess) and did his Matriculation from there. He told me how often the kids were taken to the base (School and base were located almost apposite to each other, Oh, Quetta, I miss you!), and briefed about the Air Force personnel, planes and other Air Force hardware. Naturally many kids started thinking seriously about being fighter pilots and many did join as GDP. Obviously kids from regular Schools or Colleges will never get this kind of an exposure hence will not think early on about a profession in the armed forces.

My College was in Quetta Cantt. Everyday, we used to see the different units, firing ranges, soldiers, tanks and artillery. Naturally, many of us became very involved into the military business if you will. Several of my class fellows joined Army soon after passing the FSc. That was the impact of the atmosphere; obviously kids from the other Colleges (located outside the Cantt area) never had an exposure to military life as we had.

So what I am proposing is based on my personal experience, and of the experience of several others who got a chance to observe military life on daily basis albeit very superficially.

The Army is doing what it can do without the govt's help. We dont get any special benefits if these classes are conducted nor we get the money that is spend on these procedures.

I appreciate what Army is doing, but there has to be a policy and clear rationale of doing things even free of charge. As I have mentioned in my previous post, right now the problem is not the ISSB test, but how to convince young Sindhis and Blochs to consider military as a profession in the first place.

If you think that they should be provided with better education opportunities, which BTW is absolutely right and i favor it more as compared to running the pre-ISSB classes only, why don't you suggest the same to the govt, rather the provincial govt to be specific.

This kind of a proposal should be made by the GHQ and forwarded to the GoP through proper channel. All I can do is to write a column which surely will have no impact. If my words have no impact on the members of this forum who happen to be very educated, and accomplished people, than there is something seriously wrong with my writing style or language skills.

Army has taken a one sided initiative at its own, without any instruction from the govt (and america). It was felt ATLEAST by the Army that the Balochs are being ignored (and yes they definitely have been). i wonder why never the govt has been blamed for this. Just because the Army took the first step so is it necessary that all the sh!t which have been done to the Balochis should be thrown on army's shoulders? You mean that if i today say no to drugs and start a campaign against it but fail to deliver much because of lots of factors that are beyond 'my control', should i be blamed for the drug rampage in the country? ik tu kam karo oper say batain suno

I don’t think that Baloch or Sindhis are being ignored by the Military. In fact the military profession is being ignored by them. Everyone knows (informed through the news papers) that twice every year, Army receives applications. Everybody is welcome to pay a visit to the recruitment centers, and gather the required information. It is now up to the choice of a person whether he wants to join the Army or not. Not everybody becomes a Doctor or Engineer or a civil servant, or an architect, but this does not mean that a person is being ignored by a profession. The selection criteria of the Civil Services is even more gruesome, one has to appear in CSS or PCS examination before even being considered for an interview. I have passed PCS with distinction and I know what it means to clear those papers. Nobody says that the Baloch or Sindhis are being ignored in the Civil Services. And even if it is said, who cares? Just go, prepare for the examination, pass and join. If this realization that Sindhis and Balochs have been and/or being ignored by the Army is some kind of a Self-consciousness, than it is a different thing, but I don’t think this is true.

i dont know why His excellency Mr Bugti the Great! who BTW today is being painted as a national hero by b*****ds like Hamid Mir and NS, didn't make schools when he was the CM of the Province, why all the civilian govts both under NS and BB just put the Baloch problem and insurgency under the carpet by feeding the instigators so that no bad name should come to their regime. i fail to understand why if someone had the guts to take the initiative to kick the insurgency out from Balochistan and say NO to black mailers is not appreciated, rather he is blamed for the killing own brothers!! How strange can that be. i don't talk about the success or failure or operations in Balochistan, but atleast it was because of these actions that today atleast the rest of Pakistanis know that there is a problem in Balochistan!! Otherwise, Sub Accha Hai report could also have been given by the army and the insurgency could have allowed to play freely and screw the Province, but sorry we fail to let the things go unnoticed.

In another of my post, I have mentioned reasons of why Baloch think they were ignored by the people sitting in Islamabad. Their complaints are not much different than those of Mr. Mujib ur Rahman, and by God not baseless altogether. It is the fact of the matter that Islamabad has always tried to run Balochistan as an out post through the help of few loyal (in reality not at all) Sardars and Bugti was one of them. Instead of giving the Sui Gas royalty to the people of Balochistan, money was paid directly to Akbar Bugti to keep him and other Sardars (Atta ullah Mengal, Khair Bukhsh Murri and many others) quite over NFC award. Like Taliban, the GoP is fully responsible for keeping and making these Sardars strong through all this time. Bugti and other Sardars have always been blackmailing the GoP, but for the GoP it was cheaper to deal with the blackmailers than to give the right share of the NFC award to the people of Balochistan. What is in the way of the GoP to eradicate the Fudal system? India did this soon after its independence.

Now a few words about the education uplift that you have suggested. Try to read my thread on Chamalag Project, you'll come to know a thing known as CBEP (Chamalang Beneficiary Education Program). The Army very well knows who do do its work, so inn addition to provide pre-ISSB classes it has also started this education program which is providing quality education to 2994 children. Yes, stunted na, Three Thousand Childerns! FREE OF COST! Recently i was told by a colleague of mine that the Army has bought books, uniforms, stationary etc etc amounting to Rs 1 crore! (Now where this money comes from, a guud question, for the answer ask the question in that Chamalang thread, please)

It is a good move, but please see my response above.

Kids in Quetta might not require some special push to make them go to school as the city is already 'aware', but the areas like Kohlu, Rakhni, Nushki, Duki etc etc would definitely require attention. But you dont know that, why would you know that, as Sir Hamid Mir and Kamran Khan dont get paid if they highlights these efforts. The pre-ISSB things is being run for quite a few years now, but you find only ONE news link on the subject!! Strange na!

There are Schools and there are Colleges throughout Balochistan. Balochistan is my home, I have lived in my home for good 25 years. I don’t need Hamid Mir and Kamran Khan to tell me about my home. You might have heard the names of Kohlu, Rakhni, Nushki, Duki, I have seen these place with my own two eyes. I know what is there and what is not there (at least until 1999). If the pre-ISSB thing is being run for quite some time, and not many know about it, I would hold ISPR responsible for not properly advertising about this. Until of course, if it is not considered fully legal to carry out pre-ISSB classes.

So dear Qsaark, i am not disputing you, but the thing is that if someone is atleast trying to add in a very small amount, it should be appreciated rather then pointing out mistakes and complaining it about the 'other' things that should also have been done.

I am not disagreeing with you; all I am saying is that perhaps there are better ways of enlarging the recruitment base. The Bulk of Army is not made-up of the officers, but of the NCOs anf JCOs. A true representation of so-called backward provinces can not be achieved through the induction of 100 or so officers every year, we have to induct more Jawans into Army from Sindh and Balochistan.

Education is the most important issue, not only for Balochistan but for the entire Pakistan, and it is understood very well, but unfortunately the military doesnt run the country's Education Ministry, still it had and continue to do what it can from its own resources as regards to education not only in Balochistan, but also in Kashmir, Siachen, FATA and Northern Areas!

On education, I have made my arguments in the beginning of this reply.

 

[Xeric]

In several of my posts, I have suggested that Army should establish more Army Public Schools and Cadet Colleges that should be maintained and run by or under the supervision of the Army. I am not talking about the general education, for that there are other Schools, but Army/Air Force Schools and Cadet Colleges are different. In order to broaden the base of recruitment for the Army (as well as for other armed forces/para-military etc.), we need to educate the kids and their parents. Army Public Schools and Cadet Colleges can do this much better than regular Schools and Colleges. A friend of mine (now a Major in Army) studied in PAF School Samungli, Quetta (now Fazaia Inter College Samungli I guess) and did his Matriculation from there. He told me how often the kids were taken to the base (School and base were located almost apposite to each other, Oh, Quetta, I miss you!), and briefed about the Air Force personnel, planes and other Air Force hardware. Naturally many kids started thinking seriously about being fighter pilots and many did join as GDP. Obviously kids from regular Schools or Colleges will never get this kind of an exposure hence will not think early on about a profession in the armed forces.
My College was in Quetta Cantt. Everyday, we used to see the different units, firing ranges, soldiers, tanks and artillery. Naturally, many of us became very involved into the military business if you will. Several of my class fellows joined Army soon after passing the FSc. That was the impact of the atmosphere; obviously kids from the other Colleges (located outside the Cantt area) never had an exposure to military life as we had.
So what I am proposing is based on my personal experience, and of the experience of several others who got a chance to observe military life on daily basis albeit very superficially.

Well the Army has APS in every cantt, the PAF has the PAF Schools and Colleges at every Base and the Navy has a similar setup, so what else do you want the defence forces to do? Make APS and PAF schools outside the cantonment limits or have more than one school/college inside one base or cantt?

These schools are primarily for the personnel of Armed Forces as they have to move frequently within the country so a standard setup is required where when a kid who has left his class in mid way because of his dad’s or mother’s posting he can rejoin the same class somewhere else without a problem. But the fact remains that these schools have been providing quality education of civilians as well, no one has stopped them, rather there is more strength of civilian kids in these schools as compared to armed forces personnel.

The Army doesn’t construct APSs nor does it make cadet colleges, already enough of these institutions are there in the country. The number of APS and PAF schools is more than enough to fulfill the requirements of the armed forces and the civilians who wish to get educated there, as for the cadet colleges, yes perhaps we need them more, but the Army doesn’t make them so I don’t know what can be done.

As for your claim that by increasing the number of these schools would help increase the induction process, I agree with you in totality, but due to the reasons mentioned above probably no more of these schools are constructed unless more cantonments and Bases are made, which is what the army was trying to do but was thwarted by the Baloch separatists who claimed that they don’t need cants inside Balochistan. More cants more Army run schools where more kids can go, more cants more interaction of those people with the Army thus making them interested in thinking to join the Army. You have lived in a cant but you forgot to mention that it is not only the schools that interests the people to join the army but also the various other interaction like contractors, visitors, shop keepers, civilian recruits etc etc in the cantt that also get interested in joining the military.

Now lets do some math, how many APS/PAF schools you think would be there in entire Balochistan? The number of bases and cantts in Balochistan will give you a fair number. Let’s have an assumption: we take that there are 10 APS/PAF schools in entire Balochistan (because we are assuming that there are only 10 cantts/Bases in Balochistan). 10 schools mean that 10 batches of matriculate every year, each batch would probably have 35-55 (a very vague assessment) students. How many of these students would be interested in joining the army? Let’s consider that 50% would be, so it makes 27 kids from each school (taking the maximum figure in mind) so 27 x 10 =270 students are interested in joining the Army each year. OK now let’s see how many students the pre-ISSB classes train: the figure is somewhere between 350-450 and most of them are non APS/PAF schoolians. So still the pre-ISSB thingy manages to get more kids in the Army. Though this was just a vague example and may not be accurate at all.

Having said all this I am not at all refuting your choice of having more APS schools and colleges, the more they are the better it is and they have been and would help increase the recruitment base for the military.

I appreciate what Army is doing, but there has to be a policy and clear rationale of doing things even free of charge. As I have mentioned in my previous post, right now the problem is not the ISSB test, but how to convince young Sindhis and Blochs to consider military as a profession in the first place.

You are absolutely right ,w hat do you think the pre-ISSB thing is doing? Isn’t it convincing the masses, 500 kids comes stay, eat, study, learn, get groomed etc etc on the Army’s expense and then leave. The Army has been providing them free boarding and lodging, free messes, visits to various units, interaction with Army troops, equipment to include tanks, artillery guns and small arms (through visits of weekends as you have been doing in APS ) They were made to visit Officer Messes, they dined in with officers talked with them interacted with them and listened to their looonngggg stories of what they did in Siachen and Kashmir. They have been visiting officers BOQs and rooms at will and roaming with them. Don’t you think that when that kid goes back after a month, regardless of being selected or not, wouldn’t he make his other friends ‘aware’ and convinced to join the Army?

This kind of a proposal should be made by the GHQ and forwarded to the GoP through proper channel. All I can do is to write a column which surely will have no impact. If my words have no impact on the members of this forum who happen to be very educated, and accomplished people, than there is something seriously wrong with my writing style or language skills.

Ok, but why dont the GoP instead ask the Army to do the needful and provide the Army with funds to carry on with the measures that have been suggested by you?

Why it has to be the Army to do everything, cant the GoP of Pakistan see that there is a need to have more Balocha and Sindhis in the military? Not only the military but in every field, banking, computing, finance, real estate etc etc. Why don’t the govt take this ‘Noble’ step and take measures to include providing better education to these people, so that more of them are absorbed in the main stream? It is easy to say that the Army should do that and the Army should do this!

Let me clear this for once and all, the military is not short of manpower neither it is short of Balohis nor Sindhis who want to join the Army. If you were thinking that the Army is begging Balochis and Sindhis to join it, then you got it wrong. The number of Balochs and Sindhis that the Army requires every year is very effectively filled. If a unit is supposed to have 600 (an example) Balochis (according to class composition that the Army maintains) on its inventory, I have yet to see one that complains that they have been able to muster on 400 Balochis , rather if they are supposed to have 600 the respective recruitment center of that Arm makes sure that it gets 600. So if someone was thinking that the Army is ‘short’ of these people, no it’s not the case.

BUT, the case is that the Army wants that Balochis and Sindhis should be giving more opportunities and the only thing it can do is to provide them jobs, and the only job that the Army has is to get someone inducted give him a rifle and send him to die! And that’s what the army is doing.

I think that after writing a column to convince the GoP to get more Balochis and Sindhis inducted in the Army, you should also sugeest the same to Mobilink, MCB, WAPDA, PTCL, Beaconhouse, City School, FPSC, Police, Rangers, City Bank and many more. Just a suggestion, no offence!

So in short the Army is not deficient of Balochi and Sindhi manpower, it is just feeling the shame which in actuality is the job of the govt and doing ‘something’ to make the lives of these people a little better.



I don’t think that Baloch or Sindhis are being ignored by the Military. In fact the military profession is being ignored by them. Everyone knows (informed through the news papers) that twice every year, Army receives applications. Everybody is welcome to pay a visit to the recruitment centers, and gather the required information. It is now up to the choice of a person whether he wants to join the Army or not. Not everybody becomes a Doctor or Engineer or a civil servant, or an architect, but this does not mean that a person is being ignored by a profession. The selection criteria of the Civil Services is even more gruesome, one has to appear in CSS or PCS examination before even being considered for an interview. I have passed PCS with distinction and I know what it means to clear those papers. Nobody says that the Baloch or Sindhis are being ignored in the Civil Services. And even if it is said, who cares? Just go, prepare for the examination, pass and join. If this realization that Sindhis and Balochs have been and/or being ignored by the Army is some kind of a Self- consciousness, than it is a different thing, but I don’t think this is true.

Lolz..you got me completely wrong bro!
When did I say that the military is ignoring the Balochs, why should they, where did I say this?
What I wanted to say was that it is us the people of Pakistan who have ignored them, it is Pakistan who has ignored them, it has been the GoP who has ignored them!

Moreover, not many have ignored the military, as you can find out from what I have written above regarding the class composition thing.

As for the PCS, I myself have been through the FPSC and had even gone through the interview thing, so I very well know how gruesome it is

In another of my post, I have mentioned reasons of why Baloch think they were ignored by the people sitting in Islamabad. Their complaints are not much different than those of Mr. Mujib ur Rahman, and by God not baseless altogether. It is the fact of the matter that Islamabad has always tried to run Balochistan as an out post through the help of few loyal (in reality not at all) Sardars and Bugti was one of them. Instead of giving the Sui Gas royalty to the people of Balochistan, money was paid directly to Akbar Bugti to keep him and other Sardars (Atta ullah Mengal, Khair Bukhsh Murri and many others) quite over NFC award. Like Taliban, the GoP is fully responsible for keeping and making these Sardars strong through all this time. Bugti and other Sardars have always been blackmailing the GoP, but for the GoP it was cheaper to deal with the blackmailers than to give the right share of the NFC award to the people of Balochistan. What is in the way of the GoP to eradicate the Fudal system? India did this soon after its independence.

Qsaark, you are great! You have talked my heart out. Thanks for putting the actual story out here, it is nicve to hear this from a ex-Balochistan
resident. Thanks!

It is a good move, but please see my response above.


Just a ‘guud’ move?? Well Qsaark bro your standards are too high
I wonder why didn’t this was done by the Ministry of Education…

There are Schools and there are Colleges throughout Balochistan.

I ver well know that.

Balochistan is my home, I have lived in my home for good 25 years. I don’t need Hamid Mir and Kamran Khan to tell me about my home.

What do you exactly mean by this?
You probably have been living in queta having access to all the facilities in that provincial capital. Moreover, who is asking Hamid Mir to make YOU aware of your homeland, I was suggesting that if they can waste hours in maligning the military and govt for bird flu why don’t they come talk about the misdeeds done to Balochs? Why don’t they hold accountable the govts that have been part of the misdeeds?

You might have heard the names of Kohlu, Rakhni, Nushki, Duki, I have seen these place with my own two eyes. I know what is there and what is not there (at least until 1999).

Well I’ll like to clarify this also.
I have been to all of these places, not only these but many more that I have referred to elsewhere. I have spent quite a large chunk of my service on Balochistan, thanks to the Army. I have been part of Balochistan for a quite a log time. I have experienced it from the top (when I was at a senior post) as a commander (when I have been operating there) and as a under command when I was part of the run of the mill! So I know much about the place and have been to like 80% of the province. So atleast I can say with confidence that I have even seen the places where you probably would not have been to.
I know much about the geography and demography of the Province. I have been to places, stayed there, fought, welfared, interacted, talked and did much more. I know who Luni, Bugti, Marri, Bajrani, Loharani, Gazini, Achakzai, Salarani, Somrani, Shahijah, Pawadi, Qalandrani, Rahmkani etc etc are (most members here would be like ….lolzzz-and mind it I am not a Baloch), I know their characteristics and nature very well, I know which caste and sub-caste is fit for the military etc etc. Like once I happened to be in Kashmir and we received a few Sindhi recruits. Only after a few days we started receiving complains from other soldiers that these Sindhis done work! The situation in Kashmir you know is usually tense and life is not that easy. We have to dig the trenches, go out for patrolling, carry out recce etc etc. I received complains that these Sindhis just done work, a few even have said that we cant dig or walk more. There have been instances when during rain they used to pick up their Rs 2 lota and duck inside the bunkers and leave their G-3s out in the rain. So we have to motivate/pamper/pat/kick (as the situation varied) them, and soon the time came that whenever I had to go ‘out’ I used to make sure that these two sindhi soldiers (Allah Wasaio and Jatoi-though there were many more who were equally guud) go with me because they were one of the best dudes that we had even better than Punjabis, as I knew if we happen to bump into an Indian patrol enroute atleast these two will not show their a$$es to the Indians!

So time can change things, I am not saying that a certain tribe or caste (either from Punjab, Sindh or Balochistan) is not ‘fit’ for the military but traditions and locations does matter. So let’s not get carried away with this competition that who knows Balochitsna more than whom, we both are quite conversant about the area we are talking about.

If the pre-ISSB thing is being run for quite some time, and not many know about it, I would hold ISPR responsible for not properly advertising about this. Until of course, if it is not considered fully legal to carry out pre-ISSB classes.

Well my dear if we need 400 students for the pre-ISSB classes and like 800 parents come to get their kid inducted I think the ISPR has done its job. These were being run in Quetta but people from Turbat, Garruk, Gazan,Panjgur, Kikki etc etc were there, and was like ‘hey where did you people get hold of these people??” And the simple answer was, Sir ji Fauj hai
So you again got me wrong here, I was saying that the people in Balochistan doesn’t know about these classes, but I was emphasizing and criticizing the media for not providing enough coverage to the event. Ofcourse they gave other money making news at hand, this will not get them much.

As for the illegal thing…lolzzz.. you still are stuck on the subject. If Corps Commander Quetta himself is visiting these classes, releasing special funds for them, there are banners, brochures, flyers, announcement all over Quetta and rest of Balochistan regarding the start of these classes, do you think It still is illegal. You really need to visit Quetta again bro!

I am not disagreeing with you;

You are right on this

all I am saying is that perhaps there are better ways of enlarging the recruitment base. The Bulk of Army is not made-up of the officers, but of the NCOs anf JCOs. A true representation of so- called backward provinces can not be achieved through the induction of 100 or so officers every year, we have to induct more Jawans into Army from Sindh and Balochistan.

As I have said earlier, there is no shortage of inductees from these places, but yes in the Officer cadre we do see a little less representation from these areas, and the Army is working on it, though it doesn’t require to.

 

[qsaark]

As I have said earlier, there is no shortage of inductees from these places, but yes in the Officer cadre we do see a little less representation from these areas, and the Army is working on it, though it doesn’t require to.

If there is no shortage of inductees from these places, than carrying out this debate is pointless. I wish you had made this clear to us in some of your earlier posts.

 

[Xeric]

If there is no shortage of inductees from these places, than carrying out this debate is pointless. I wish you had made this clear to us in some of your earlier posts.

You again got it wrong, bro.

 

[Xeric]

The 2nd Selection/Enrollment of Balochi individuals has commenced from 2 May 09, it will stay in progress till 20 May 09.

The following relaxations have been granted to the candidates of Balochistan Domicile holders:-

Category------------------------Standards

-------------------------For other--------For
-------------------------Provinces----Balochistan

Education----------------Matric--------8th Class

Height------------------167.5 cm-----162.5 cm

Chest-------------------78-83 cm-----74-79 cm

Age---------------------17-23 yrs------17-26 yrs

The above mentioned relaxations will be implemented for all arms and services, except following:

Tech in Sigs/EME Corps

CMP Corps (military police)

Recruitment currently being done at:-
Quetta
Loralai
Sibi
Khuzdar
Turbat

Moreover, Mobile Recruitment Teams (MRTs) would also visit remote areas of Balochistan for the purpose of recruitment.

Documents required:-
Local or Domicile Certificate (original and Photocopy)

Education Certificate (Original and Photocopy)

4 Passport Size Photos

Rs 50 as registration fee

For more info:-

Recruitment Center Quetta Zargoon Road: 081-2490-5885

Recruitment Center Loralai Cantt: 0824-410414

Recruitment Center Sibi: 0833-9209-5885 or 0833-500854

Recruitment Center Khuzdar: 0848-786-5885

Recruitment Center Turbat: 0852-413285

Qsaark you'll be having many questions, before you ask them let me again clear up a few things

The Army fulfills (previously and currently) its share of demographic class composition to have a representative strength from each province, federally administrated and the Northern Areas (to include Kashmiris). Having said this, the above quoted relaxations in standard have been made due to the following two reasons:

Provide a chance to 'increase' Baloch representation in the military.

Provide more jobs to Balochis and reduce unemployment in Balochistan.

 

[Sparten80]

I would like to see the Pakistan army incorporating more Pakistani's from Pakistan's Tribal Area and rural areas, especially the Waziri's, Orakzai, Mahsud's as well from Balochistan. The Tribal pashtuns and many others in Pakistan are natural wariors and with appropriate training, there increase in number would be a welcomed addition in the Pakistan army as well as help better integrate the peoples of the Tribal areas, remote areas and rural Balochistan into the army and the nation as a whole. Why not incorporate the martial characteristics and history that has been shaped over hundreds if not thousands of years into the Pakistani army. The Pakistani army has much to offer them, and I am very certain, they have much to offer the Pakistani army and armed forces as well.

I would like to see the following demographic make up in the Pakistani army

38% - Panjabi
28% - Pashtun
15% - Sindhi
9% - Baloch
8% - Gilgit Baltistan
2% - Others

I think such proportions would help in bringing people of the various provinces more into prominence and integrated better within Pakistan. The army is one of the strongest institutions in the country which instills such values and principals.

I am also for the re-institution of the Mandatory Training courses that used to be held for students after finishing High School in Pakistan. Those few weeks of Army training, instill discipline, patriotism and a national pride that only an institution such as the army can do.

Also, I noted that a few individuals here, were passing comments on the lazziness and lack of professionalism of some new soldiers from other provences, I think this is an issue of proper training and discipline. Furthermore, this is not the forum to complain, the complaining should have been done at the time and to the right individual following the chain of command. Many armies turn relatively unprofessional individuals into fully trained, disciplined and professinal soldiers! The US, Canadian and many European armies, many of its lower ranks are filled with high school rejects and the outcasts of society, but through consistent training and routine, they can pull off basic maneuvers. In the Wild and warrior instilled heartland of Pakistan, I think we have many positive qualities inate and genetically in our blood irrespective of which part of Pakistan we belong to. It just requires the right type of training and dedication to bring it out.

 

[Tiger Prowling]

Last thing Pakistan need is racial profiling in its armed forces.

People's should get oppertunity on merit.

But they say one must be able to communicate on same frequency.

Imagine Gorkha soldier calling Malbari soldier for back up. Fewwwwww

 

[Xeric]

Pakistan Army is a National Army.

That said, we dont mind any Pakistani demography. Moreover, the names of our regiments also suggests alot in this regards. Nothing to worry.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

it also has to do with "tradition". all punjabis dont join the PA. the PA "bread-basket" for recruitment was/is the potohar areas, then the pushtuns from the settled areas from NWFP (but not all tribes/clans). there was / is hardly any recruitment from Balochistan / Sindh (for reasons i cannot write - will be considered racist).
this all changed during the mid-70s when the PA was to be transformed into a "National" army. the recruitment standards were reduced (huge mistake in my opinion), for eg: for officers 2nd div (60&#37 was a must. this has been reduced to 40% marks. even in the PAF for GDP pilots the marks required were 60%, but now is 45%. this has has a big impact on the quality of officers joining the PA, PAF and PN.
so yes i am for equal opportunity for all pak nationals but merit must not be compromised.

According to the above ISPR report, sindhis are 15% while pakhtuns are 13.4% in army. So your claim , that almost no recruitment from sindh, makes no sense.
This ISPR figures busted the myth that it is punjabi-pathan army. Pakhtuns are only 13.4 or 14.4%, even gilgat-kashmir has 9%. Sindhis must be now second largest ethnic component of pak army, 17%.

 

[Nishan_101]

Punjab’s dominance in army being reduced: ISPR -DAWN - Top Stories; September 14, 2007

Hmmm... steps towards silencing the indignant trumpets blaring "Punjabi Domination"....

They should recruit only on Merit Basis.

Provide free IISB training to Balochis and Sindhis along with Pushtuns and Punjabis.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Gentlemen, Keep this in mind that the Pakistan Armed Forces are a "Volunteer" service, and not a compulsory service.

Anyone who wishes to join these services has to go through the induction process and if he is found fit, he/she is inducted in the desired service.

There is no quota system based on religion, caste, sect or race in any form, irrespective of people who claim there is.

If people of a certain area do not volunteer, then another area will fill the gap, plain and simple.

Induction based on region, race, language is neither happening nor it will happen in the future.

 

[dawn_news]

They should recruit only on Merit Basis.

Provide free IISB training to Balochis and Sindhis along with Pushtuns and Punjabis.

Well every one should feel part of it. Though i don't agree with lowering standard. Im sure standard will go up in Sindh as well soon.