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Countries that have shown interest in BAFs' modernization program

I think we should also look at JF-17 as one of the mainstay like PAF and use J10B as the higher end fighter with less number. So it should be a combination of cheaper JF-17, replacing the F-7BG's and J10B replacing the Mig-29's. I think that would a good long term plan.

This is because I can foresee that many Muslim nations in mid-east and elsewhere will adopt JF-17 as it is lower cost, and Bangladesh must have interoperability with Muslim nations armed forces with as many similar equipment as possible. Russia will be loosing out to China in this market, as Chinese engines are maturing and will be mature enough in a matter of 3-5 years, if not already. And helping a fellow Muslim country Pakistan with its JF-17 production, would show our commitment to improvement of relationship and looking towards the future. It also makes good strategic sense, because we face the same threat perception at both sides of the same menace.
 
I think we should also look at JF-17 as one of the mainstay like PAF and use J10B as the higher end fighter with less number. So it should be a combination of cheaper JF-17, replacing the F-7BG's and J10B replacing the Mig-29's. I think that would a good long term plan.

This is because I can foresee that many Muslim nations in mid-east and elsewhere will adopt JF-17 as it is lower cost, and Bangladesh must have interoperability with Muslim nations armed forces with as many similar equipment as possible. Russia will be loosing out to China in this market, as Chinese engines are maturing and will be mature enough in a matter of 3-5 years, if not already. And helping a fellow Muslim country Pakistan with its JF-17 production, would show our commitment to improvement of relationship and looking towards the future. It also makes good strategic sense, because we face the same threat perception at both sides of the same menace.

I don't think Pakistan would be willing to give you the Jf-17 because of the never-ending game of Hide & Seek being played between your Pro-India & Neutral-to-Pakistan Governments in Power !

Imagine the insight the Indians could get if the Awami League were to let them take an in-depth look into the Jf-17s ?

Nor do I think that the Chinese would be willing to part with the J-10B just yet - Pakistan is the exception of course !

The J-10As are more likely an option !
 
I think we should also look at JF-17 as one of the mainstay like PAF and use J10B as the higher end fighter with less number. So it should be a combination of cheaper JF-17, replacing the F-7BG's and J10B replacing the Mig-29's. I think that would a good long term plan.

This is because I can foresee that many Muslim nations in mid-east and elsewhere will adopt JF-17 as it is lower cost, and Bangladesh must have interoperability with Muslim nations armed forces with as many similar equipment as possible. Russia will be loosing out to China in this market, as Chinese engines are maturing and will be mature enough in a matter of 3-5 years, if not already. And helping a fellow Muslim country Pakistan with its JF-17 production, would show our commitment to improvement of relationship and looking towards the future. It also makes good strategic sense, because we face the same threat perception at both sides of the same menace.

Really, how many muslim countries are beating the door down to order the JF-17, how many have they actually sold? I am sorry but considering the recent past I dont see why we need to show any commitment to improving relations with pakistan, we should consider them like any other nation.

On the other hand, the J-10b would be a good buy, if the Chinese offer them to us at reasonable prices. The long term buy would be a squadron of J-31s to complement two squadrons of J-10bs.
 
I don't think Pakistan would be willing to give you the Jf-17 because of the never-ending game of Hide & Seek being played between your Pro-India & Neutral-to-Pakistan Governments in Power !

Imagine the insight the Indians could get if the Awami League were to let them take an in-depth look into the Jf-17s ?

Nor do I think that the Chinese would be willing to part with the J-10B just yet - Pakistan is the exception of course !

The J-10As are more likely an option !

Good then, no JF-17's for Bangladesh, thanks for pointing out reservations Pakistan may have. We can easily get similar or better planes from China. And we do not need your speculation about what we can or cannot get from China. That is a bilateral matter between China and Bangladesh.
 
Really, how many muslim countries are beating the door down to order the JF-17, how many have they actually sold? I am sorry but considering the recent past I dont see why we need to show any commitment to improving relations with pakistan, we should consider them like any other nation.

On the other hand, the J-10b would be a good buy, if the Chinese offer them to us at reasonable prices. The long term buy would be a squadron of J-31s to complement two squadrons of J-10bs.

Yes a combination of J-10B and J-31 would be perfect.

The reason I mentioned JF-17 is because of following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder
Potential customers[edit]
Egypt is currently discussing a deal with Pakistan to co-produce the JF-17 for the Egyptian Air Force.[113] The Azerbaijani Air Forces has negotiated with China for the purchase of several dozen JF-17s, worth approximately $16–$18 million each.[114][115][116] The Sudanese Air Force is also reported to be negotiating for 12 aircraft.[117] The Air Force of Zimbabwe reportedly ordered 12 JF-17 in 2004,[118] but there are no current sources that confirm payment or intent of delivery.[119][120][121] In 2008 several other countries including Bangladesh, Iran and Nigeria were identified as potential buyers.[4][122] In early 2010 it was reported that China had been in talks with around 5 to 6 countries on the JF-17, some of whom had sent air force pilots to test-fly the fighter.[123] Algeria, Argentina, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Uruguay showed interest in the fighter plane.[82][124]

However, the market for this type of aircraft is believed by some analysts to be limited.[125] As of October 2013, the JF-17 has yet to achieve any export orders; AVIC has also conducted presentations of their developing Shenyang J-31, which is intended as a cheaper alternative to the F-35.[126] Argentine officials at the 2013 Paris Air Show said that they have had multiple discussions with Chinese officials over potential co-production of the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) FC-1/JF-17 multirole combat aircraft. The discussions are the first formal effort that could lead to the co-production of a modern Chinese fighter in Latin America. FAdeA officials said the co-produced FC-1 could be called the 'Pulqui-III', recalling FAdeA's Pulqui-II, Latin America's first swept wing jet fighter.[127]

But since Pakistan may not like this proposal, according to some Pakistani poster above and Bangladesh may not also feel comfortable about this kind of purchase from Pakistan, I guess we should rule it out. My main motivation was for a cheaper plane, but then JF-17 block II actually costs as much as J-10A/B, so JF-17 may actually turn out to be a poor man's version of J-10.
 
I want to ask a naive question. Are the majority Bangladeshi pro China or Pro India? i can feel that majority of Bangladeshi in PDF is pro China.
 
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But since Pakistan may not like this proposal, according to some Pakistani poster above and Bangladesh may not also feel comfortable about this kind of purchase from Pakistan, I guess we should rule it out. My main motivation was for a cheaper plane, but then JF-17 block II actually costs as much as J-10A/B, so JF-17 may actually turn out to be a poor man's version of J-10.
JF17 is a joint programme, we shall negotiate with Pakistan to export it. As to J10 fighters, it is all different story. China want a longterm friendly relationship with Banladesh in both military and economy field. I think BAF will really interested in J10B if your airforce spend enough time to know it.
 
BAF knows China will provide products of stringent specification/high quality training/maintenance. Some of the tech also could be offered as TOT step by step. Most importantly, no political string attached.
 
I don't think Pakistan would be willing to give you the Jf-17 because of the never-ending game of Hide & Seek being played between your Pro-India & Neutral-to-Pakistan Governments in Power !

Imagine the insight the Indians could get if the Awami League were to let them take an in-depth look into the Jf-17s ?

Nor do I think that the Chinese would be willing to part with the J-10B just yet - Pakistan is the exception of course !

The J-10As are more likely an option !
Pakistan's national security will be placed as very important consideration when China doing business with others. I think the approval for J10B'S export to to other countries will at least 5 year later, Pakistan is an exception in this case. J10A is a decent fighter providing both air and gound/sea attacking ability in cost effective way. one more thing, J10A is far matured than J10B.
 
I don't think Pakistan would be willing to give you the Jf-17 because of the never-ending game of Hide & Seek being played between your Pro-India & Neutral-to-Pakistan Governments in Power !

Imagine the insight the Indians could get if the Awami League were to let them take an in-depth look into the Jf-17s ?

Nor do I think that the Chinese would be willing to part with the J-10B just yet - Pakistan is the exception of course !

The J-10As are more likely an option !
I'm not denying that India has huge influence on Bangladesh, but i don't think BAF will allow IAF check in JF17 if our concern is written in the contract.
 
I want to ask a naive question. Are the majority Bangladeshi pro China or Pro India? i can feel that majority of Bangladeshi in PDF is pro China.

Your feeling is correct, India has caused us nothing but trouble, which is natural, because Hindu's have been enemy of Muslims ever since Muslim invaders came to South Asia. The reason we have these two countries Pakistan and Bangladesh, is literally because we cannot get along with them and decided to have our separate country (former Pakistan) rather than live under Hindu majority India. But then we found that West Pakistan, to our surprise, started acting like the colonial ruler, so we decided to separate from them as well.

To understand majority (90% Muslims) feeling of Bangladeshi's towards Chinese you have to go back a little in history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Hamid_Khan_Bhashani
Chinese connection
Bhashani was known to have a Chinese connection and was the leader of pro-Chinese politicians of East Pakistan. During the 1965 war between Pakistan and India, Bhashani disappeared for several days. It is said[by whom?] that he flew from Panchbibi, Bogra to China, at the behest of president Field Marshal Ayub Khan, to secure support of China for Pakistan.

http://www.banglapedia.org/HT/B_0527.htm
There is reason to believe that frequent contact during prison life with the communists made the Maulana more conscious about socialist ideology with which his personal political outlook and lifestyle were quite in accord. He became president of the Adamjee Jute Mills Mazdoor Union and the East Pakistan Railway Employees League. The Maulana was made to preside over two massive workers’s rallies organised by the communists on May Day in 1954 in Dhaka and Narayanganj. The same year he was made president of the East Pakistan Peasants’ Association. Soon after, he was made president of the East Pakistan chapter of the communist-dominated International Peace Committee. In that capacity, he went to Stockholm to attend the World Peace Conference in 1954. He visited several countries of Europe, gaining firsthand knowledge of the socialist movements of the world.

At home, the United Front came close to collapsing mainly because of conflicts between the Awami Muslim League and the Krishak Sramik Party over the question of power sharing. The Maulana tried his best to overcome the problems of practical politics. But he was particularly disappointed at the turn of events under which H S Suhrawardy formed the Awami coalition government at the centre with himself as prime minister and with Ataur Rahman Khanas chief minister in East Bengal. Meanwhile, serious differences of opinion arose between the Maulana and Suhrawardy on issues concerning the basic principles of the Pakistan Constitution then being finalised for promulgation. The Maulana opposed the constitution’s provision for separate electorate for the minorities which Suhrawardy supported. He also opposed Suhrawardy’s pro-American foreign policy and favoured closer relations with China.

In 1957, the Maulana called a conference of the party at Kagmari, and used the occasion to launch a bitter attack on Suhrawardy’s foreign policy, thereby signaling an imminent split in the organisation. Things came to a point of no return when Maulana Bhasani called a conference in Dhaka of leftists from all over Pakistan and formed a new party called the national awami party(NAP) with himself as president and Mahmudul Huq Osmani from West Pakistan as secretary general. From then onwards the Maulana followed left-oriented politics openly.

Bhasani was interned once again when Pakistan’s army chief General Mohammad Ayub Khan seized power in 1958. After his release from confinement in 1963, the Maulana went on a visit to China and also to Havana in 1964 to attend the World Peace Conference. Bhasani bitterly opposed Ayub Khan’s proposal for creating a selective electorate of ‘basic democrats’ and fought for holding all elections on the basis of universal adult franchise. In 1967 the socialist world split into pro-Soviet and pro-China blocs. The East Pakistan NAP also split with the Maulana leading the pro-China fraction.

Maulana Bhasani branded the Ayub government as a lackey of imperialist forces and launched a movement to dislodge him from power.

http://amitavghosh.com/blog/?p=3893

File photo of Aisin Gyorro Puyi, Last Emperor of China



From Mao-Tse Tung-er Deshe by Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani, p. 42

I am on my way to meet the last monarch of the mighty Manchu empire: the last emperor of the Qing dynasty, Pu Yi. For 250 years the Qing dynasty ruled and misruled China; it was they who opened China’s doors for foreign looters…


Pu Yi conspired against the people of China with Japanese and Western imperialists. And now the same Pu Yi has committed himself to the building of a socialist society. What sort of man is this Pu Yi?

…At one time Pu Yi was training to be a curator in a Chinese botanical garden. But in 1961 a commission was specially created to write a new history of China and he was transferred to an office of the People’s Consultative Conference to help with the research. That was where I met Pu Yi. He is a slim, inoffensive-looking man of middling stature. I couldn’t find any resemblance between him and the Pu Yi of my imagination. His bright, smiling face and his shining eyes betrayed no signs of the sly conspirator. I was amazed – could this be the same Pu Yi who helped the Japanese against Chinese revolutionaries? Who wanted to keep China prone while he floated high on the froth of luxury? I could not quite believe it. How old could he be? Thirty, or at the most thirty-five? But Pu Yi corrected me himself, saying that he was actually 57 years old. He looked very young for his age.

I entered his office at four in the afternoon and when I left it was eight thirty.

https://defence.pk/threads/role-of-...ans-in-history-in-bangladesh-landmass.241738/

Pakistan: Prophet of Violence

Friday, Apr. 18, 1969

Wreathed by a wispy beard, his face reflects an almost otherworldly serenity. As he plays with his grandchildren in a tiny village 60 miles north of the East Pakistan capital of Dacca, Abdul Hamid Bhashani, 86, looks the part of a Moslem maulana or guru, and to millions of Bengali peasants, he is. But the kindly grandfather is also Pakistan's most outspoken advocate of violence.

As much as any one man, Bhashani inspired the riots that last month forced President Ayub Khan to step down from the presidency. Now Bhashani is the most severe single threat to a fragile peace brought to the troubled and geographically divided land by the imposition of martial law. Under fear of harsh penalties, Pakistan's other politicians, including Bhashani's chief Bengali rival, moderate Sheik Mujibur Rahman, have kept silent. Not Bhashani, who continues to receive newsmen and followers at his bamboo-walled hut. "What have I to fear?" he asked TIME Correspondent Dan Coggin, as he adjusted his soiled straw skull cap and straightened the green sweater that he wore inside out. "I would welcome being hanged for my people."

Secessionist Sentiments. Such potentially explosive expressions run exactly counter to the aims of General Yahya Khan, the army commander who has taken over as President. In his first press conference, Yahya last week declared that he gives top priority to keeping the peace. He also said that it would take some time before the country could be returned to constitutional rule. But Bhashani has served notice that he may start new trouble soon unless the President begins to confer with Pakistani politicians, including himself, about ways to settle the country's problems. Bhashani plays on the secessionist sentiments in East Pakistan. He rails against domination by the much better-off West and demands that the new government redress the old inequities—or else. Says he: "What the people did against Ayub, they can do against General Yahya. But this time, the demonstrations will be even deadlier."

Would the Pakistanis really revolt against the army? "Is it possible for the army to kill 125 million Pakistanis?" counters Bhashani angrily. "Have the North Vietnamese quit fighting? We are Southeast Asians like them. When the flame of discontent is lit, the people will stop at nothing."

Living Saint. Bhashani's rhetoric, of course, outruns the facts. So far, Pakistanis have shown no desire to take on the troops, and Bhashani's own following is limited mainly to peasants in the East. But there are a formidable 30 million to 40 million country folk who revere him as a living saint. During the past 60 years, he has built up his following by siding with the impoverished peasants, first against the British raj and later against the rich absentee landlords. Living and dressing simply, he walks from village to village, dispensing a pastiche of religion and politics that he calls "Islamic socialism."

Other Moslem holymen contend that Islam and Bhashani's brand of socialism do not mix. His critics also charge that he is seizing ,on secessionist tendencies chiefly because an independent East Pakistan would be so weak that it would be susceptible to influence from China and the neighboring Indian state of West Bengal, which is now ruled by a Communist government. Bhashani, while not a Communist, is a radical leftist with close personal and political ties to Peking.

An eclectic theologian, Bhashani completely ignores the fatalistic aspect of Mohammedanism. "My religion is revolutionary, and I am a religious man," he argues. "Therefore, it is my religion to rise up against wrong." He scorns the established order that the Koran bids the faithful to support. In his view, the status quo must be completely upset so that the new order in which he believes may take root. Bhashani also makes no apology for his allegiance to China, heightened during his first visit to Peking in 1952. Says he: "I admire everything about China except its godlessness."

Chinese Protection. After Mohammed Ayub Khan took power ten years ago, Bhashani became the unofficial go-between who helped Ayub establish better relations with Peking. It was a role that shielded him from arrest while other Pakistani leaders were being packed off to Ayub's prisons for criticizing the army-backed regime.


When the big riots broke out last month, Ayub may have wished that he had jailed Bhashani anyway. Operating apparently on Chinese orders to start a Maoist revolt, Bhashani's well-trained party workers led some of the worst rampaging, in which hundreds of people, including a dozen minor officials, were murdered and many houses burned down. Bhashani shrugs off the violence as "male-ganimat," or retribution, which is condoned by the Koran.

http://www.banglapedia.org/HT/B_0527.htm
There is reason to believe that frequent contact during prison life with the communists made the Maulana more conscious about socialist ideology with which his personal political outlook and lifestyle were quite in accord. He became president of the Adamjee Jute Mills Mazdoor Union and the East Pakistan Railway Employees League. The Maulana was made to preside over two massive workers’s rallies organised by the communists on May Day in 1954 in Dhaka and Narayanganj. The same year he was made president of the East Pakistan Peasants’ Association. Soon after, he was made president of the East Pakistan chapter of the communist-dominated International Peace Committee. In that capacity, he went to Stockholm to attend the World Peace Conference in 1954. He visited several countries of Europe, gaining firsthand knowledge of the socialist movements of the world.

At home, the United Front came close to collapsing mainly because of conflicts between the Awami Muslim League and the Krishak Sramik Party over the question of power sharing. The Maulana tried his best to overcome the problems of practical politics. But he was particularly disappointed at the turn of events under which H S Suhrawardy formed the Awami coalition government at the centre with himself as prime minister and with Ataur Rahman Khanas chief minister in East Bengal. Meanwhile, serious differences of opinion arose between the Maulana and Suhrawardy on issues concerning the basic principles of the Pakistan Constitution then being finalised for promulgation. The Maulana opposed the constitution’s provision for separate electorate for the minorities which Suhrawardy supported. He also opposed Suhrawardy’s pro-American foreign policy and favoured closer relations with China.

In 1957, the Maulana called a conference of the party at Kagmari, and used the occasion to launch a bitter attack on Suhrawardy’s foreign policy, thereby signaling an imminent split in the organisation. Things came to a point of no return when Maulana Bhasani called a conference in Dhaka of leftists from all over Pakistan and formed a new party called the national awami party(NAP) with himself as president and Mahmudul Huq Osmani from West Pakistan as secretary general. From then onwards the Maulana followed left-oriented politics openly.

Bhasani was interned once again when Pakistan’s army chief General Mohammad Ayub Khan seized power in 1958. After his release from confinement in 1963, the Maulana went on a visit to China and also to Havana in 1964 to attend the World Peace Conference. Bhasani bitterly opposed Ayub Khan’s proposal for creating a selective electorate of ‘basic democrats’ and fought for holding all elections on the basis of universal adult franchise. In 1967 the socialist world split into pro-Soviet and pro-China blocs. The East Pakistan NAP also split with the Maulana leading the pro-China fraction.

So, in all of Pakistan, as far as I can tell, then East Pakistan leader Bhasani was the closest to Chinese Communist Party and Mao Tse Tung, I am guessing and Ayub Khan used this connection to get close to China. The tragedy and irony is that China took the side of West Pakistan in 1971 war, while Bhasani, who wanted independence of Bangladesh, was arrested by RAW and kept in house arrest in India, when he crossed over to India, so that he cannot play any role in the war.

Ideally the two wings of Pakistan, both of whom were friendly to China, should have amicably separated without bloodshed, but major bloodshed was initiated by West Pakistan Army, responding to some riots instigated by RAW agents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight

1971 war was mostly fought by leftist activists many of whom were China supporters and followers of Bhasani, but India hijacked this war, sent in its Army, and installed an India friendly govt. in power, which was eventually overthrown in 1975. Pro-India Awami League however managed to make a come back at least 3 more times. Now just 5 days back, their term has ended and they are about to get overthrown again, almost 90% Bangladeshi's are hoping and praying.
 
Your feeling is correct, India has caused us nothing but trouble, which is natural, because Hindu's have been enemy of Muslims ever since Muslim invaders came to South Asia. The reason we have these two countries Pakistan and Bangladesh, is literally because we cannot get along with them and decided to have our separate country (former Pakistan) rather than live under Hindu majority India. But then we found that West Pakistan, to our surprise, started acting like the colonial ruler, so we decided to separate from them as well.

To understand majority (90% Muslims) feeling of Bangladeshi's towards Chinese you have to go back a little in history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Hamid_Khan_Bhashani


http://www.banglapedia.org/HT/B_0527.htm


http://amitavghosh.com/blog/?p=3893


https://defence.pk/threads/role-of-...ans-in-history-in-bangladesh-landmass.241738/



http://www.banglapedia.org/HT/B_0527.htm


So, in all of Pakistan, as far as I can tell, then East Pakistan leader Bhasani was the closest to Chinese Communist Party and Mao Tse Tung, I am guessing and Ayub Khan used this connection to get close to China. The tragedy and irony is that China took the side of West Pakistan in 1971 war, while Bhasani, who wanted independence of Bangladesh, was arrested by RAW and kept in house arrest in India, when he crossed over to India, so that he cannot play any role in the war.

Ideally the two wings of Pakistan, both of whom were friendly to China, should have amicably separated without bloodshed, but major bloodshed was initiated by West Pakistan Army, responding to some riots instigated by RAW agents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight

1971 war was mostly fought by leftist activists many of whom were China supporters and followers of Bhasani, but India hijacked this war, sent in its Army, and installed an India friendly govt. in power, which was eventually overthrown in 1975. Pro-India Awami League however managed to make a come back at least 3 more times. Now just 5 days back, their term has ended and they are about to get overthrown again, almost 90% Bangladeshi's are hoping and praying.
Here's wishing you all the best - Hindufree Bangladesh
 
Pakistan's national security will be placed as very important consideration when China doing business with others. I think the approval for J10B'S export to to other countries will at least 5 year later, Pakistan is an exception in this case. J10A is a decent fighter providing both air and gound/sea attacking ability in cost effective way. one more thing, J10A is far matured than J10B.

Bro, I don't think that China would be willing to sell the J-10B to any other country than Pakistan right now because its going to be your mainstay fighter for decades to come & I don't think the Chinese Military Planners would be open to putting it on the market until plans for a J-10C being inducted into the PLAAF are in the final stages !

At any rate I don't think that the BAF is going to be acquiring the J-10s anytime soon - I reckon they'd instead acquire more upgraded Mig-29s instead of going for a completely new platform like the J-10s especially considering their Budget & their Threat Perception !
 
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I'm not denying that India has huge influence on Bangladesh, but i don't think BAF will allow IAF check in JF17 if our concern is written in the contract.

I don't think Pakistan would be willing to risk that considering that the Jf-17 is going to be our mainstay for the next few decades !

But like I said I do think the BAF would most probably keep a High-Low of upgrade Mig-29s & upgraded J-7s respectively !
 

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