Crisis deepens as India blocks Chenab flow

[SU 30 MKI]

The truth is that Chenab River belongs to Kashmir, not India and you have no right to block the river in a disputed territory. Kashmiri's should have the right to decide what they want to do with their water and I assure you that no Kashmiri muslim would like to see Pakistani farmer suffer over their water.

Your government is again abusing Kashmir to blakmail Pakistan.
Yeah...truth hurts!

Under what deal you gave portions of J&K to China, NO Kashmiri like to see their land sell by other. Kashmir's dont have that right?

 

[Neo]

Under what deal you gave portions of J&K to China, NO Kashmiri like to see their land sell by other. Kashmir's dont have that right?

Land was not sold but transferred as part of NA, not AJK.

 

[Spring Onion]

Here it clarify India did stop the Chinab River water to Pakistan.


Pakistan may move World Bank against India over Chenab water
17 Sep 2008, 1556 hrs IST,PTI

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will seek arbitration by the World Bank over India's alleged violation of the Indus Water Treaty India if New Delhi did not concede the breach of the pact, a report said on Wednesday.

Islamabad had claimed that, in "gross violations of the Indus Water Treaty," India reduced the water flow to fill up the Baglihar dam lake in Jammu and Kashmir, causing to a "loss of agriculture" for farmers in Pakistan.

Pakistan would take up the issue with India on a water commissioner-level meeting likely to be held in New Delhi and would demand compensation for the agriculture loss to it, said a Daily News report.

"We will demand compensation estimated at 0.2 million causes in water loss. If India does not accept the violation, Pakistan will go to the WB for arbitration," official sources were quoted as saying.

India, on the other hand, has clarified that reduced flow in the Chenab river in Pakistan was a result of "very little" availability of water in a lean year.

"There was reduction because the flow was very little this year. We have also explained to the Pakistan High Commission on the situation," Foreign Secretary Shivshanker Menon said in New Delhi on Tuesday.

Pakistan Water and Power Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, who chaired a high-level meeting, has directed the Pakistani Indus Water Commission chief to hold formal discussions with his Indian counterpart.

He claimed India had stopped 200,000 acre-feet water from August 1 to September 12 to fill the Baglihar Dam lake in Jammu and Kashmir.

Pakistan may move World Bank against India over Chenab water-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

 

[third eye]

Here it clarify India did stop the Chinab River water to Pakistan.

These Bunyas will never stop.
Pakistan may move World Bank against India over Chenab water
17 Sep 2008, 1556 hrs IST,PTI

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will seek arbitration by the World Bank over India's alleged violation of the Indus Water Treaty India if New Delhi did not concede the breach of the pact, a report said on Wednesday.

Islamabad had claimed that, in "gross violations of the Indus Water Treaty," India reduced the water flow to fill up the Baglihar dam lake in Jammu and Kashmir, causing to a "loss of agriculture" for farmers in Pakistan.

Pakistan would take up the issue with India on a water commissioner-level meeting likely to be held in New Delhi and would demand compensation for the agriculture loss to it, said a Daily News report.

"We will demand compensation estimated at 0.2 million causes in water loss. If India does not accept the violation, Pakistan will go to the WB for arbitration," official sources were quoted as saying.

India, on the other hand, has clarified that reduced flow in the Chenab river in Pakistan was a result of "very little" availability of water in a lean year.

"There was reduction because the flow was very little this year. We have also explained to the Pakistan High Commission on the situation," Foreign Secretary Shivshanker Menon said in New Delhi on Tuesday.

Pakistan Water and Power Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, who chaired a high-level meeting, has directed the Pakistani Indus Water Commission chief to hold formal discussions with his Indian counterpart.

He claimed India had stopped 200,000 acre-feet water from August 1 to September 12 to fill the Baglihar Dam lake in Jammu and Kashmir.

Pakistan may move World Bank against India over Chenab water-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

Dear Jana,

May I request you to kindly exercise discretion in your choice of words.

 

[Spring Onion]

Dear Jana,

May I request you to kindly exercise discretion in your choice of words.

Well Sir i will. my appology.


BTW That word was in common use in undivided India and did not carry any negative impression.

Now coming back to Chenab water stealing by India.

Sir why Indians resort to such kind of things always.

Their born haterd towards Muslims and Pakistan is leading them nowhere.
Such tactics cant help much destroying Pakistan.
Its time they should accept that Pakistan is a reality.

 

[Neo]

Blockade of Chenab River inflicts Rs37bn loss to agriculture ​

Wednesday, September 17, 2008
By Khalid Mustafa

ISLAMABAD: Punjab, the food basket of entire Pakistan, has sustained a huge monetary loss amounting to almost Rs37 billion in the wake of a blockade of Chenab River by India.

According to a senior official in the Punjab irrigation department, over 10 million acres of land in the province has been affected and the standing paddy crop in the area has suffered a lot, as it was the time of maturity and the province badly needed the last watering, which could not be completed just because of the blatant violations of Indus Waters Treaty 1960 by India and continuing to fill up the dead shortage of Baglihar HPP beyond August 31, 2008.

Under the treaty, India cannot reduce the flow in Chenab River below 55,000 cusecs between 21st June and August 31, 2008, whereas Pakistan had been receiving a discharge of as low as 20,000 cusecs during August-September 2008.

The official further said that the government had projected the rice production at 5.7 million tonnes, but the reduction in flows in Chenab River at this point of time will reduce the production by 15 to 20 per cent. This means that rice production will come down from the expected target of 5.7 million tonnes to 4.7 million tonnes.

To a question, he said that these are the preliminary estimates. However, Punjab irrigation department has started working to exactly ***** the losses, which the agrarian economy of the province will sustain.

To a question he said that 10 million acres land in areas of Sialkot, Gujranwala, Sheikhupura, Hafizabad, Faisalabad, Okara, Lahore, Pak Patan, Vehari and Bawalnaghar have been affected. Out of 10 million acres of land, 5.6 million acres of land has adversely been affected in the areas of Sialkot, Gujranwala, Jhang, Faisalabad and Sheikhupura.

When contacted, Pakistan Commissioner of Indus Water Syed Jamaat Ali Shah, who was on his way to Lahore after attending the meeting in Islamabad held on Tuesday with Minister for Water & Power, Raja Pervez Ashraf in the chair over the interference of flows of River Chenab at Marala head works in Pakistan, said that Pakistan has the option to move Neutral Expert or Court of Arbitration seeking for penalty against India for violation of the treaty.

“First the issue will be taken up at the level of Permanent Commission of Indus Waters (PCIW) for solution once and for all and incase of failure, Pakistan has the option to move Neutral Expert and Court of Arbitration.”

He said that Neutral Expert under the treaty can be moved for compensation of water loss and Arbitration Court for financial loss in case India refuses to pay the compensation.

In the forthcoming meeting of PCIW, he said that Pakistan would come up with solid proof based on undeniable data about the blatant violation of the treaty committed by India.

To another query, Shah said that India has stored 0.2 million acre feet of water for Baglihar project to make it operational in the current month of September.

He vowed that he is to soon visit the site of the Bagluhar project as he has sought dates for the visit from Indian Commission of Indus Water to this effect. However, he said that the Indian Commission is still unmoved over the demand of Pakistan seeking the data of inflows in Chenab River. “My counterpart has so far shown inability in letting us know about the exact inflows of the Chenab River.”

Meanwhile, a very crucial meeting on the reduction in flows of River Chenab at Marala head works was held in the Ministry of Water & Power under the Chairmanship of Minister for Water & Power, Raja Pervez Ashraf. The meeting was attended by senior officers of Ministry of Water & Power, Foreign Office PCIW, Law & Justice, WAPDA, Irrigation Department, Punjab and the related institutions.

The meeting was apprised that India had committed a blatant violation of the Indus Water Treaty by reducing Chenab flows to Pakistan and continuing to fill up the dead shortage of Baglihar HPP beyond August 31, 2008.

Pakistan Commissioner for Indus Water (PCIW) gave a detailed presentation on the issue and informed that he had already taken up the issue with his Indian counterpart. This was followed by a comprehensive discussion. The members were apprised that the initial filling of dead storage of Baglihar Plant in AJ&K on river Chenab resulted in to a substantial reduction of water at Marala.

This has caused a massive agricultural loss to vast areas of Marala command canals. It has also resulted in early depletion of Mangla dam reserves so as to mitigate some of the adverse affects on certain canals. The overall loss to the national economy (loss of water, damage to agricultural crops, overconsumption of energy for running tube wells, etc) had thus been colossal, which are being assessed by the Government of Punjab.

 

[third eye]

Well Sir i will. my appology.


BTW That word was in common use in undivided India and did not carry any negative impression.

Now coming back to Chenab water stealing by India.

Sir why Indians resort to such kind of things always.

Their born haterd towards Muslims and Pakistan is leading them nowhere.
Such tactics cant help much destroying Pakistan.
Its time they should accept that Pakistan is a reality.

Jana,

Thank you for the prompt & positive reply.. communal, religious & sexist generalisations are best avoided.

See , since I am not privy to the goings on , I cannot hazard a comment.

Let me assure you that I am a part of a very large group ( possibly 90 % of all Indians) who feel that a partition was required & the right thing to have happened for if it hadn't in '47, it would definitely happened later with more disastrous consequences. What you hear in the media are essentially peripheral groups who want to get noticed, & what can be better that anti Pak /anti Govt/ communal/ religious utterances to come into limelight.

Once a family out grows the ancestral house, its only best for the sons to move on , split the family assets & set up house & home elsewhere. This way the love & harmony remains as against the bickering that happens in an unhappy joint family.

What was wrong was not the partition but the manner it went about. There is no point blaming the brits for it coz in our haste to be independent we accepted the shoddy manner in which we were divided.

Today, among the young ( 35 yrs & below), there is very little acrimony towards Pak. What is there is a sense of curiosity given the fact that we have so much in common ( language, food, customs, rituals to name a few).

Pakistan as a reality is has been accepted essentially for the reasons I have mentioned above.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Topic is India's blockage of water flow in violation of the IWT, not the NA's or Aksai Chen.

Take Kashmir discussions to the relevant thread please.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

 

[Spring Onion]

India is abiding by international regulation?

Dont be so naive to close your eyes even to the acceptance of India that India is blocking water to Pakistan which according to the International regulation India was bound to release.

 

[Goodperson]

India is abiding by international regulation .

Dont be so naive to close your eyes even to the acceptance of India that India is blocking water to Pakistan which according to the International regulation India was bound to release.

You post without Knowing the facts just for the sake of posting, All your post end up bashing Hindus or calling Modi a terrorist or Blaming security forces for Kashmir or rapes of women in India.

Here is the link to Indo-Pak treaty

World Bank Group - System Maintenance

This treaty divides the Indus River River system into two groups.

The Eastern group - consisting, Sutlej , Beas and Ravi and their tributaries. According to the treaty, they belong to India and India can do whatever the hell they want to do with their water before it enters Pakistan.

and

The Western group - consisting, Indus , Jhelum and Chenab and their tributaries. According to the treaty, Pakistan has exclusive rights to these waters except (AND THIS IS THE GENEOUS OF AYUB KHAN), India can USE these waters to generate electricity as run-of-the-river projects, provided no water is diverted.

Run-of-the-river dams are not true dams as far as their capacity is concerned. After the dam fills up, it can not restrict water and normal flow is achieved.

That "neutral expart" said India constructed the Baglihar dam within the limits of IWT.

Now those who are proposing China to divert Tsangpo, Chineese are probably doing that. That is the only major Indian river that flows through China. India relies little on the water of Tsangpo in Assam and Arunachal pradesh. But It affects Bangladesh a lot.

International Court of Justice does not have jurisdiction over IWT because it is a bilateral issue.

Questions

1) Can India hold back water until the resevoir fills?

A - To fill a run of the river reservoir it takes several weeks to a few months whereas a full scaled hydro-power dam may take several years to fill.

2) How did India get such authority?
A- It is in treaty, Run of the river dams, on "the Western group "rivers, are legal under IWT, India has every right to fill it.

 

[Spring Onion]

You post without Knowing the facts just for the sake of posting, All your post end up bashing Hindus or calling Modi a terrorist or Blaming security forces for Kashmir or rapes of women in India.

Here is the link to Indo-Pak treaty

World Bank Group - System Maintenance

This treaty divides the Indus River River system into two groups.

The Eastern group - consisting, Sutlej , Beas and Ravi and their tributaries. According to the treaty, they belong to India and India can do whatever the hell they want to do with their water before it enters Pakistan.

and

The Western group - consisting, Indus , Jhelum and Chenab and their tributaries. According to the treaty, Pakistan has exclusive rights to these waters except (AND THIS IS THE GENEOUS OF AYUB KHAN), India can USE these waters to generate electricity as run-of-the-river projects, provided no water is diverted.

Run-of-the-river dams are not true dams as far as their capacity is concerned. After the dam fills up, it can not restrict water and normal flow is achieved.

That "neutral expart" said India constructed the Baglihar dam within the limits of IWT.

Now those who are proposing China to divert Tsangpo, Chineese are probably doing that. That is the only major Indian river that flows through China. India relies little on the water of Tsangpo in Assam and Arunachal pradesh. But It affects Bangladesh a lot.

International Court of Justice does not have jurisdiction over IWT because it is a bilateral issue.

Questions

1) Can India hold back water until the resevoir fills?

A - To fill a run of the river reservoir it takes several weeks to a few months whereas a full scaled hydro-power dam may take several years to fill.

2) How did India get such authority?
A- It is in treaty, Run of the river dams, on "the Western group "rivers, are legal under IWT, India has every right to fill it.

Forget about the Hindus and Modi here no point of them.

Your post shows your frustration.

Now coming back to the distribution of water under interntaional treaties wow wow you have come up only with those which shows the right of India to use water from those rivers why altogather the conditions for that and also Pakistan's right to use the water from Chenab and other rivers.'

AS you had mentioned yourslef that India has right to fill the dams only if water is not diverted in this case India has stolen our water and diverted it to Baghliar.

And as far as the verdict of WB on Baglihar well it was also not based on fairness, The Indian official and Indian lobby played a role.

Anyway that is a separate issue.

But still Baglihar is consructed in Kashmir and Kashmir is not Indian territory.

 

[Spring Onion]

1) Can India hold back water until the resevoir fills?

A - To fill a run of the river reservoir it takes several weeks to a few months whereas a full scaled hydro-power dam may take several years to fill.

2) How did India get such authority?
A- It is in treaty, Run of the river dams, on "the Western group "rivers, are legal under IWT, India has every right to fill it.

I am quoting bellow from another post here


"Pakistan had been asking the Indian side to share the schedule for dam filling and allow site inspection of the Baglihar dam but they did not provide the relevant information. On August 7, New Delhi informed Islamabad through an email that it would be filling Baglihar dam between August 10 -31, with the assurance the river flows would not fall below 55,000 cusecs on the Pakistani side."


Did India fulfill the above conditions which were agreed upon by the two sides.???

NO It did not a hypocrat country that is notoriouse to go back on its words can never abide by International laws.

 

[Goodperson]

Forget about the Hindus and Modi here no point of them.

Your post shows your frustration.

Now coming back to the distribution of water under interntaional treaties wow wow you have come up only with those which shows the right of India to use water from those rivers why altogather the conditions for that and also Pakistan's right to use the water from Chenab and other rivers.'

AS you had mentioned yourslef that India has right to fill the dams only if water is not diverted in this case India has stolen our water and diverted it to Baghliar.

And as far as the verdict of WB on Baglihar well it was also not based on fairness, The Indian official and Indian lobby played a role.

Anyway that is a separate issue.

Do some homework as a Journalist before posting. Baghliar verdict was taken as a win by Pakistanis Initially later when Indian press took it as confirmation of Indian position at Baghliar Pakistanis realized their mistake go back and read the reports you as a Journalist should have access to those.

But still Baglihar is consructed in Kashmir and Kashmir is not Indian territory.

Back to usual ranting.

Then why did Pakistan take India to UN ?

 

[Goodperson]

I am quoting bellow from another post here


"Pakistan had been asking the Indian side to share the schedule for dam filling and allow site inspection of the Baglihar dam but they did not provide the relevant information. On August 7, New Delhi informed Islamabad through an email that it would be filling Baglihar dam between August 10 -31, with the assurance the river flows would not fall below 55,000 cusecs on the Pakistani side."


Did India fulfill the above conditions which were agreed upon by the two sides.???

NO It did not a hypocrat country that is notoriouse to go back on its words can never abide by International laws.

How coviniently you missed reading next few lines in blue from the post.

Indian officials stressed that under the provision of the Indus Water Treaty, India had the right to fill the reservoir between June 26 and August 31. “There is no bar on the content of water,” a senior official said.

 

[Spring Onion]

India violating Indus Basin Treaty: Pak
Afzal Khan writes from Islamabad

Pakistan has blamed India of blocking its share of water from the Chenab in violation of the Indus Basin Treaty (1960) and indicated it could seek intervention of the World Bank that had guaranteed the treaty.

Water and power minister Raja Pervez Ashraf on Tuesday presided over a top-level meeting here to discuss the crisis that had jeopardised kharif (summer) crops, including rice, cotton and sugarcane.

Water and power secretary Ismail Qureshi told reporters that Pakistan was awaiting Indian response to a demarche sent through the Foreign Office, a few days back. Pakistan has also proposed that its experts be allowed to visit Baglihar Dam being built by India on the Chenab in India-held Kashmir. Under the 1960 treaty, Pakistan was given exclusive rights on two of the five rivers of Punjab, the Jhelum and the Chenab, while India was allowed the same rights on the Ravi, the Beas and the Sutlej.

Qureshi said the Indus Basin Treaty allowed India to build hydroelectric plants on its side but Pakistan had the right to receive 100 per cent water for irrigation purposes. He said India was supposed to release a minimum of 55,000 cusecs of water by August 31 but only about half of it was filtering into Pakistan. During an emergency, the government had to divert some water from Mangla dam to bolster supply to hundreds of acres of land irrigated by the Chenab.

He said Pakistan recently allowed an Indian delegation to visit the sight of the Neelam Valley Project planned in Azad Kashmir on the Jhelum. India on its part was obligated to facilitate a similar inspection of Baglihar Dam to the satisfaction of Pakistan that it was not using the Chenab water to fill the dam beyond the agreed dates.

India was supposed to fill the Baglihar dam up to August 31 and that too only if 55,000 cusecs of water was released downstream. Today, the water flow into Pakistan is approximately 20,000 cusecs, significantly less than the average low of 35,000 cusecs. Pakistan suspects that India is filling Baglihar beyond the period it is allowed to and over and above what is permissible, Qureshi said.
He said the Indian High Commission in Islamabad had indicated that its government was expected to respond to the Pakistani demarche within next couple of days.

Pakistani officials say the reduced supply from India has directly threatened the fields of basmati rice on either side of the Chenab, dealing a potentially heavy blow to the economy.


The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - World


The above clearly shows India a cheating Nation. Theives who are not having moral high ground to abide by the internatioal law.