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Crisis deepens as India blocks Chenab flow

if you push us into a corner, if you try to starve us to death, we would fight rather than starve.

Water is our life line, and if you cut it, be sure that you will not find peace in the future.

I doubt India's trying to starve anyone to death,that's just ridiculous,I'm sure the U.N or someone would make a massive fuss about it.

but if they are, looking at it from a purely strategic perspective, what better time than now? strike when the iron's hot right.
 
you seem to have forgotten our war of independance in 1857,

do you know who crushed it ?

and our fight for independance under the leadership of subhash chandra bhose.

did it enjoy Pan-Indian support ?

As for the post partition violence, any one with a degree of familiarity with the history, would know that it occured because many muslims did not leave certain districts of Punjab, having been assured they would be part of Pakistan. places such as gurdaspur, ferozepur, filor, etc. A few days after partition, it was announced that these places were in fact India, and a wave of ethnic cleansing commenced, to drive the muslims out of the area, to clear the route to kashmir. The sole road to kashmir goes through district gurdaspur. This ethnic cleansing then switched to both sides, as trains full of dead muslims started reaching the pakistani towns.

First Hand Accounts.
Chowk: India Pakistan Ideas Identities

The indians and pakistanis were not masters of their destinies, but were unfortunate victims of the machinations of people like sardarji patel, jawaharlal nehru, mountabatten, etc.

I strongly disagree

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NEW DELHI: India will not block Chenab River water to Pakistan, Indian National Security Advisor MK Narayanan said in an interview aired on Sunday.

Talking to NDTV, he said Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari held ‘a very good’ meeting in New York last month. Noting that Chenab water was raised in the meeting, he said the Indian prime minister was clear on the matter that India would not block Chenab water. “India does not want a conflict on the issue,” he said. Narayanan said India wants to carry forward the peace process and does not want it to derail. Singh opened the first phase of the Baglihar Dam power project on the Chenab River on Friday, and said India had addressed Pakistan’s concerns.

To a question, he said India would deal with whoever is in power in Pakistan. The Indian official said the Joint Anti-terrorism Mechanism had not ‘worked well’ so far but “at least both sides are listening to each other”. Referring to the recent bombings in India and the Orissa communal violence, he said Bajrang Dal is a dangerous organisation. “There is a need to deal with it effectively.” app
 

New Delhi: India and Pakistan will hold talks in New Delhi on October 23 to discuss the issue of reduced water inflows in the Chenab river due to the construction of the Baglihar hydel project in Jammu and Kashmir, the first 450 MW phase of which Prime Minister Manmohan Singh inaugurated on Friday.

A six-member Pakistani delegation, led by Water Commissioner Syed Jamat Ali Shah, would inspect the dam in Kashmir between October 18 and 22 before the two-day talks in New Delhi.

Pakistan says it has faced water losses of over 0.2 million cusecs in the Chenab river due to the water storage in Baglihar Dam in violation of the 1960 Indus Water Treaty, Pakistani newspaper Daily Times reported on Friday.

No change in Pakistan's Kashmir policy: Zardari

Pakistan is planning to demand compensation for a massive loss of more than Rs 40 billion due to the water losses in the river, according to the daily.

Inaugurating the 450 MW Baglihar hydel project, Manmohan Singh underscored that Pakistan's "justified concerns" had been taken care of while building the project, which is in accordance with the Indus treaty.

“We have taken care that justified concerns of our neighbours are taken care of and there are no complaints," the Prime Minister stressed.

Omar Abdullah to stay away from PM's meeting

Pakistan plans to approach the World Bank for arbitration if India did not address its concerns over the reduced the water flow in the Chenab.

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari had raised the Cehnab issue with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York last month.

Soon after the talks, India invited Pakistan's Indus Water Commissioner to resolve issues relating to the Chenab water and assured Islamabad that it will abide by its commitments under the Indus treaty.
 

ISLAMABAD, Oct 12 (APP):Pakistan would be compelled to seek the intervention of neutral experts if blatant violations of Sindh-Tass Treaty continues by the Indians, Indus Water Commissioner Syed Jamaat Ali Shah said Sunday. In a telephonic conversation with Geo News he urged the Indians to continue water supplies to Marala as per Indus water treaty inked between the two countries in 1960.


Baglihar hydroelectric power project is a run-of-the-river power project on the Chenab in the southern Doda district in the Indian occupied Kashmir.

He said India filled Baglihar dam in the month of August thus creating water shortage in Pakistan.

He hoped that if the dam was operated in line with the treaty, then Pakistan would have no water shortage due to this project on the Chenab River.
 

NEW DELHI: India will not block Chenab River water to Pakistan, Indian National Security Advisor MK Narayanan said in an interview aired on Sunday.

Talking to NDTV, he said Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari held ‘a very good’ meeting in New York last month. Noting that Chenab water was raised in the meeting, he said the Indian prime minister was clear on the matter that India would not block Chenab water. “India does not want a conflict on the issue,” he said. Narayanan said India wants to carry forward the peace process and does not want it to derail. Singh opened the first phase of the Baglihar Dam power project on the Chenab River on Friday, and said India had addressed Pakistan’s concerns.

To a question, he said India would deal with whoever is in power in Pakistan. The Indian official said the Joint Anti-terrorism Mechanism had not ‘worked well’ so far but “at least both sides are listening to each other”. Referring to the recent bombings in India and the Orissa communal violence, he said Bajrang Dal is a dangerous organisation. “There is a need to deal with it effectively.” app

already posted here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ns-india-blocks-chenab-flow-5.html#post206237
 

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s Indus Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah Saturday warned that India planning construction of 10 more dams after Baglihar due to which Pakistan could face intense shortage of water in coming years.

Talking to a private TV Channel, the Syed Jamaat Ali Shah said a key meeting with India will begin in New Delhi from October 18 to discuss Baglihar and other water disputes between the two countries.

He said Pakistan will also demand compensation of the losses due to violation of the Indus Basin Treaty. He said with construction of the Baglihar Dam Pakistan economy would suffer around one trillion losses per annum. It will be the fourth largest dam of the world. Chenab provides water to 21 major canals and irrigates about seven million acres agriculture land in Punjab. The flow of River Chenab has been closed for last three months which has made about 3.5 million agriculture tracts into barren land destroying the standing crops.

Coordinator World Water Council Z.H. Dahri when contacted for comments, he said India is cleverly possessing the water resources of Pakistan while the rulers witnessing the situation as silent spectators. He claimed that India is utilizing 100 percent water of Chenab, 70 percent water of Jhelum and 65 percent of the Indus water. He disclosed that India is building 14 dams on Indus apart of one at Kargil. The country is also building 48 big and small dams at Chenab and Jhelum rivers, he added. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has inaugurated disputed Baglihar Dam on Friday.
 
"However it(IWT) contained provisions for India to establish river-run power projects with limited reservoir capacity and flow control needed for feasible power generation."

I hope the 10 new dams don't suffer the fate reserved for most Indian Dam projects.
 
It really seems as they dont want peace but fuke_n war look at all there actions how can we have peace unreal!!!!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It really seems as they dont want peace but fuke_n war look at all there actions how can we have peace unreal!!!!!!!

A nuclear war? man understand the implications of what you're saying, you want to have a nuclear war over a dam? so instead of a few people dying you want to kill millions? how come calling in the UN or bringing china or the US into the picture never occurred to you.

India faces severe power shortages and they're trying to do whatever they can to reduce if not eliminate it, so the water dried up a little bit, did it ever occur to you that it could've been some kind of mistake or someone just didn't do what they were supposed to and **** happened. why give everything such a sinister turn?

every country has some kind of disagreement with the other but it seems no one is as willing to kill each other as much as we are. :tdown:
 

EDITORIAL (October 15 2008): President Asif Ali Zardari has reiterated his government's deep concern over the very heavy price exacted on Pakistan due to the construction of Baglihar dam by India on the Sutlej River in Jammu and Kashmir. Its construction has indeed led to serious economic consequences for Pakistan, ranging from lower hydel electricity output, already a serious concern in the country, and lower water supply available for irrigation, which, in turn, would affect major crop outputs.

President Zardari categorically stated that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had assured him on the sidelines of the sixty-third United Nations General Assembly meeting that India was committed to the World Bank brokered 1960 Indus Water Treaty and "we expect him to stand by his commitment."

Business Recorder fully supports the President's stand on the Baglihar dam whose construction was a violation of the intent behind the Indus Water Treaty which was essentially to protect Pakistan, as a lower riparian country, from being deprived of its due share of the Indus water system.

The Treaty awarded the Eastern Rivers to India and the Western Rivers to Pakistan; however, India was allowed restricted use of the Western Rivers and was strictly forbidden to interfere in the process with the flow of their waters towards Pakistan. Thus the very construction of the Baglihar dam is a violation of the intent and objective of the Treaty.

It is prudent, at this point, to take note of the new ground realities. The Treaty allowed arbitration by a neutral expert, whose award was to be considered final and binding, in case of its non-conformance by either of the two countries. The previous Pakistani government did take the issue of the Baglihar construction to the World Bank in 2005 and the 2007 award is already public knowledge with both India and Pakistan claiming victory. The award overruled all objections raised by Pakistan over the construction of the dam with the exception of a critical one: the Neutral Expert appointed by the World Bank and accepted by the two countries, Professor Lafitte, ruled that India must reduce the maximum permissible pondage from 37.50 million cubic meters (MCM) to 32.56 MCM. Pakistan, reportedly, had requested 6.22 MCM.

In this context when Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh promised President Zardari that India will abide by the Treaty he was, cleverly and diplomatically, referring to the arbitration award already in force. It is unfortunate that President Zardari was not briefed adequately on the issue, which, in all probability, led him to conclusions that were not supported by the new ground realities, foremost among them being the fact that the dam construction was in its final stages of completion and presented a fait accompli to the arbitrator.

The question is who is to blame for Pakistan's defeat in the arbitration in spite of tall claims made by the former minister concerned, Liaqat Jatoi? Why was the arbitration clause invoked so late and not in the initial stages of the dam's construction? Some analysts lay the blame on the architects of the Indus Water Treaty who failed to insist on an explicit provision barring India from constructing a submerged spillway.

The Treaty (Annexure D, section 8, para (e)) bars India from constructing a gated spillway as a rule but is allowed to do so in exceptional cases where it deems that "necessary". Others lay the blame on the Pakistani team that pleaded the case before the neutral expert, a team which obviously failed to convince Professor Lafitte to take into consideration the purpose and objective of the Treaty as mandated by the Vienna Convention (article 31) which stipulates that a judge is not entitled to construe a treaty purely on the basis of the text but must keep its object and purpose in mind as well.

Whoever is at fault, it is fairly evident that Pakistan must evolve a new strategy in order to deal with the consequences of the Baglihar dam and its consequent impact on Pakistan's economy! Threatening India with a worsening of bilateral relations, is unlikely to sway that country which has clearly emerged as an economic giant in the region reaping the benefits of a democracy dividend that Pakistan is only now trying to benefit from.

What is the solution? There are some jurists who maintain that Pakistan can challenge the award. The example of the World Court's judgement in the 1960 case concerning the Arbitral Award made by the King of Spain is pertinent, which is based on the assumption that in certain circumstances an award could be vitiated with nullity. At the same time the Pakistan government must attempt to internationalise the negative fallout of Baglihar and remain engaged with India in an effort to amicably resolve the issue.
 
By Athar Parvaiz

SRINAGAR, Oct 15 (IPS) - As Pakistan and India wrangle over the waters of the Chenab, Kashmiris -- through whose homeland the river and four other tributaries of the mighty Indus flow -- have reason to be agitated.

Soon after Indian Prime Minister inaugurated the 450 Mw Baglihar hydro-electric dam project across the Chenab, during a visit to Jammu & Kashmir state last week, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari warned that disrupting the flow of the river could reverse recent improvements in ties between the two neighbours.

"Pakistan would be paying a very high price for India's move to block Pakistan's water supply from the Chenab River," the official Associated Press of Pakistan quoted Zardari as saying on Sunday.

Zardari made reference to the World Bank-mediated 1960 Indus Water Treaty which allows the two countries share the Indus river and its five tributaries -- the Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Beas and Sutlej -- and provides mechanisms for dispute settlement.

Under the treaty, Pakistan received exclusive use of waters from the Indus and its westward flowing tributaries, the Jhelum and Chenab, while the Ravi, Beas and Sutlej rivers were allocated for India's use.

India, which has a right to ‘’run-of-the-river’’ projects has rejected Pakistan's contention that the Baglihar dam reduces the flow of water and says the project is crucial for power-starved Kashmir.

In 2005 Pakistan had sought the World Bank's intervention to stop construction of the Baglihar dam and the hydroelectricity power project, but Bank-appointed experts cleared the project while asking India to restrict the overall height of the dam.

Earlier India had to stop construction of Tulbul Navigation Project on the River Jhelum on account of objections raised by Pakistan. While India maintained that the project was designed to improve navigation, especially during the winter when the water level recedes, Pakistan said that the Wullar Barrage [as Islamabad calls the project] is a storage project which will affect the flow of water. Work on the project has remained stalled for 20 years.

Under the treaty, Pakistan is to receive 55,000 cusecs of water, but authorities there complain that this year Pakistan's share was drastically reduced, causing damage to crops. "Pakistan received between 13,000 cusecs during the winter and a maximum of 29,000 cusecs during summer. This averages around 22,000 to 25,000 cusecs -- less than half of Pakistan's share,’’ newspapers in Pakistan, citing authorities, say.

India and Pakistan may be talking to each other to settle their disputes over the Indus water, but the people in Indian Kashmir say that the two countries are actually reaping the benefits of what are their resources. Thanks to the Indus Water Treaty, only 40 percent of the cultivatable land in the state can be irrigated and 10 percent of the hydroelectric potential harnessed.

"Who represented Kashmir then [1960] at the table? What was the ‘locus standi’ of the two countries to abuse waters of a region that had independent identity till 1947, and on which they disputed each other's claim afterwards?" asks human rights activist, Shayik Nazir.

"The issue that remains at the center of Indus water treaty is that the treaty was signed at a time when Jammu & Kashmir was passing through a phase of both economic and political innocence. There was a political leadership in the state which was working in what one can say as national interest [of India] at that point of time", says political analyst Gul Mohammad Wani.

"The popular political leadership; the legitimate political leadership [in Jammu & Kashmir] was out of the political scene. We had a government which had absolutely no legitimacy and no credibility in the estimation of the people of the state and it was during those times the treaty was signed."

Srinagar-based economic expert Arjimand Hussain Talib says that the treaty drastically limits the economic benefits to Kashmir. "And then the power houses which are being built on these are generally owned by the Indian government without taking into consideration the fact that they basically flow through Jammu and Kashmir", Arjimand told IPS.

"They don't share the profits and the resources which are generated through these (rivers) with the Jammu & Kashmir state except for the 12 percent royalty on power that it gets,’’ he added.

Shakeel Qalandhar, president of the Kashmir Industries and Commerce Federation, says that Kashmir's economy would have greatly progressed, but for the 1960 treaty. "Through these three main rivers, we could have generated hydroelectric power not less than 30,000 Mw, but we are generating just over 300 Mw in the state sector and 1,600 Mw in the central sector. In all it is less than 2,000 Mw whereas we require 2,500 Mw of electricity for our own consumption -- domestic and industrial.’’

According to Qalandar, every year Jammu & Kashmir purchases power [from the National Hydroelectric Power Corporation] worth billions of dollars. "It is a tragedy that despite having the potential of generating 30,000 Mw of power, 25 percent of our population is without electricity and 55 percent is without safe drinking, despite huge water resources in the state."

Over the last few years, the state government of Jammu & Kashmir and industrial groups in the state have been demanding compensation from the central government for the losses incurred by the state because of the Indus Water Treaty.

Motions were moved in the state assembly on three different occasions by the legislators asking the federal government to review the treaty and pay compensation to the state. "Our state is suffering due to the wrong decision of the then leaders and we are losing billions of dollars annually", contended legislator, Depinder Kour, while moving a resolution in the assembly a few years ago.

"Ours is a land-locked state. We don't have industries and other economic resources except the water. But because of the treaty, India and Pakistan benefit while Jammu & Kashmir suffers huge economic losses. That is why we are seeking compensation,'' says Mohammad Yousuf Tarigami, state secretary of the Communist Party of India (CPI).
 
I do not understand what this article is trying to say.Something that J&K people do not want to share water with Pakistan?
 
19 Oct 2008, 0136 hrs IST, Naveed Ahmad

ISLAMABAD: Could India and Pakistan launch a fight to the last drop of the Chenab river’s water? The construction of the 450 MW Baglihar hydel proje
ct on the Chenab river is becoming a new cause for bilateral tension.

For, even as the project doubles Jammu and Kashmir’s power generation capability from 309 MW, a full Baglihar dam will mean depleted water flow to Pakistan. This, at the time the kharif crop is planted in its Punjab and Sindh provinces.

It is a difficult situation, compounded by the apparent inability of both sides to understand each other’s position. When he commissioned the Baglihar project 12 days ago, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh declared that Pakistan’s concerns had been addressed. But he said nothing about reduced water flow to Pakistan and what, if anything, India planned to do about it. Despite Manmohan Singh’s earlier assurances to Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari, India has consistently obstructed the Chenab’s flow into Pakistan. Its Indus River System Authority claims it received just 19,351 cusecs on October 9 and 10,739 cusecs on October 11 at the Marala Head Works against the minimum limit of 55,000 cusecs. The cut in water was far below than the World Bank-mediated deal.

Pakistan remains determined to press its case, as Indus water commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah told this correspondent before leaving for Delhi to talk to his Indian counterparts this week. Shah said he would insist that India compensate Pakistan for the loss of over 0.2 million acre feet (MAF) of water last month, by releasing water from the Ravi, Sutlej and Chenab rivers. There are signs that Pakistan is not willing to accept India’s assertion that its water gauges readings are wrong. "There is more than one way to gauge the situation and clearly, the Baglihar dam is to blame," Shah said.

Pakistan’s refusal to back down underlines the singular importance of the issue. According to estimates, the dam will deprive Pakistan of 321,000 MAF of water, adversely affecting 13 million acres of irrigated land along the Chenab and Ravi rivers. Punjab’s irrigation secretary, Babar Hassan Bharwana, has already gone on record to say the water shortfall has severely affected 405 canal and 1,125 distributaries, leaving rice, wheat, sugarcane and fodder crops in many districts of Pakistan’s Punjab and Sindh provinces to wither.

Bharwana says his department so far released only 10,000 cusecs from the Mangla dam for power generation and irrigation needs were met with water from the Chenab. But the Baglihar dam will change all that, for the worse. Bharwana says, "Now the situation will change and reserves in the Mangla dam might be depleted before it can be filled, increasing shortages during the rabi season."

Pakistan’s growing sense of the Baglihar dam as a catastrophe in the making is compounded by the doom-laden prophecies of some of its key economists. They say reduced water supply to Pakistan would cost it nearly three billion rupees, a sizeable sum for a country wracked by dwindling financial reserves.

The Baglihar dam affects Pakistan’s power supply as well. A senior official at the Water and Power Development Authority says the Tarbela and Mangla dams are working at one-tenth of their power generation capacity.

Unsurprisingly then, Pakistan has long been vociferous about the dam. Nearly four years ago, it asked the World Bank (WB) to appoint a neutral expert to settle its differences with India over the dam. Islamabad said the project violated the bilateral Indus Water Treaty of 1960, which governs distribution of river waters.

The WB expert, Swiss engineer Raymond Lafitte, pronounced on the issue in February last year, but this left much of Pakistan feeling shortchanged. Analysts here said he had given India unfair leverage to rig filling criteria and treaty provisions. This, they allege, is proved by India’s ongoing "tampering" with the water flow.

Lahore-based development expert Sultan Ali Barq says Lafitte was wrong in allowing India to release the water stored at dead storage level - the level below which water cannot be drawn down or depleted except in emergencies. So what is to be done about this, one of the knottier, if less spectacular low-intensity conflicts between India and Pakistan? Barq says the dispute could be brought to a speedy end if India assured Pakistan an uninterrupted supply of 55,000 cusecs at the Marala Head Works. He says that both countries could avoid constant wrangling over water, if the Indus Water Treaty were renegotiated.

Desperate times demand desperate measures. Islamabad has long feared India would use the river waters issue to force its will on its smaller neighbour. Professor Shaista Tabassum of Karachi University, who writes on water disputes, says Pakistan’s water insecurity dates to April 1, 1948, when India stopped its canal waters from flowing into Pakistan, leaving about 5.5% of west Pakistan’s planted area and nearly 8% of its cultivated area without irrigation at the start of the crucial kharif season.

But Mushahid Hussain, chairman of the Senate’s Foreign Relations Committee, acknowledges that in the chequered history of Pakistan-India relations, the Indus Waters Treaty is the only accord that has withstood wars, ‘near’ wars and terrorist attacks. Some good may come of the Baglihar dam dispute too, he says, because "the question of Chenab waters is a litmus test, from Pakistan’s perspective, of India’s willingness to sustain an agreement with sincerity and its intentions."

India’s attitude and actions on Baglihar, Hussain says, will have "implications for other areas like Siachen, Sir Creek and Kashmir as well." But despite his measured words, even Hussain admits that Pakistan would be forced to see India’s "intransigence" on the Chenab waters issue as a threat to Pakistan’s lifeline, and to "the letter and spirit of the peace process."
 

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