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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Congrats to India for beautiful bird. The same induction/deal may rise up the competition for many in the region while warranting the necessity of up-gradation and stepping up and through the same, we will be seeing more new capable platforms or weaponry to be inducted by time. Congrats once again.
 
What is point of Storm shadow if Air Launched version of Brahmos is already on its way? (via Su30)
Or is IAF is looking for diversity of choice?
And how many Rafael B and C versions among these 36?
For now the Brahmos-A can only be fired from 40 specially modified MKIs and that too along the centreline. It will not be until the Brahmos-NG that more platforms (Rafale, MiG-29K etc) will be able to carry the Brahmos ALCM and that too multiple units. The Brahmos NG is still at least 5 years away.

India's Rafales will be able to fire the SCALP ALCM from day one (Ie sometime in 2019) and at too multiple such missiles. I don't think the Rafale will be able to fire the Brahmos before 2025.
 
For now the Brahmos-A can only be fired from 40 specially modified MKIs and that too along the centreline. It will not be until the Brahmos-NG that more platforms (Rafale, MiG-29K etc) will be able to carry the Brahmos ALCM and that too multiple units. The Brahmos NG is still at least 5 years away.

India's Rafales will be able to fire the SCALP ALCM from day one (Ie sometime in 2019) and at too multiple such missiles. I don't think the Rafale will be able to fire the Brahmos before 2025.
Israel's spice 250 too I believe
 
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

Might turn out to be a bit of controversy, but LCA now uses Elbit Targo HMDS and not DASH. Were you guys aware of this? However, I'd expect the Rafales to operate the same HMDS as Mirages, atleast for now.

tejas_hmds.png


http://elbitsystems.com/product/targo/


Good Day!

A bunch of horse-crap. It's still using the DASH III.

Honestly , from videos (Eg: Bahrain Airshow) The HMDS looks like the Elbit Targo HMDS.
(Unless both Targo and DASH looks the same)


There are no bolts on the back of the TARGO HMS and it's visor interface is different.

These are from the R-73 shoot in April 2013.
India%2527s+indigenous+Light+Combat+Aircraft+%2527Tejas%2527+on+Tuesday+successfully+completed+air-to-air+close+combat+missile+firing+tests+%25282%2529.jpg


India%2527s+indigenous+Light+Combat+Aircraft+%2527Tejas%2527+on+Tuesday+successfully+completed+air-to-air+close+combat+missile+firing+tests+%25284%2529.jpg


From Aero India 2015.
3M7A0323-X2.jpg


From Bahrain 2016.
stunning-cockpit-gopro-video-of.jpg



From this video you can correlate the back of the helmet with one from the April 2013 R-73 launch photos, they both match. TARGO itself was revealed sometime in 2014 so it's anachronistic. Also the Targos visor is different.

A TARGO Fighter for comparison.
mg_01041.jpg
 
Rafale deal will bring good business for us: Samtel chief

Defence MSME major Samtel Avionics is betting big on the Indian market even as the Indian defence industry is poised for a quantum leap, says Puneet Kaura, MD and CEO, Samtel Avionics. The Samtel Avionics, which has a joint venture with Thales, is exploring various options to meet the offset obligations of Dassault Aviation that manufactures Rafale jets. In an interview with BusinessLine, he said procurement of the French Rafale fighter jets will bring big business for the firm. Excerpts:

Now that the $8-billion Rafale deal is in place, what benefit does it bring to you?

We have the same aim for Rafale that is similar to our Mirage upgrade experience. In Rafale, we are looking at supplying infra red search and track system, some work on the electronic warfare suite, we are also looking at avionics, including computers and displays. This was also our original plan when the MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) was in discussions. I don’t see any reason why it should change.

But the procurement of these jets will be done in flyaway condition. How will this benefit you?

Rafale will bring big business to the Indian market. They need offsets and this will stretch beyond 2018-19, which is the time required to set up and start manufacturing things like this. There will still be a pipeline of 130-140 more planes to be made for the global market. And plus, let’s say India buys two more squadrons then it comes back to 167-170 planes. And then, they can always use the last leg, the last 6-10 aircraft they can still use even if the timeline is short for manufacturing from India.


Does the scaling down of the project from 126 jets to 36 impact you?

See we are starting somewhere at least. It has been 15 years that this discussion is going on. We have to look at the reality. The initial plan was too ambitious.

Of late biggies such as Lockheed Martin, SAAB and Boeing all have expressed their intention to set up their assembly lines here. What kind of opportunities does that bring for MSMEs like you?

We are working with all consortium partners. We are already engaged with many of them as supplier. So these will augment our business. We are engaged with a lot of American, Russian, European and Israeli companies.

Tell us about your Mirage 2000 upgrade experience?

This was a good experience. We were able to set up a world-class production line similar to what they have in France, transferred the technology and manufactured about 21-22 ship sets. Now we are looking at all the other Mirages that are coming up that will be using this facility for this product for global supply chain. Then there are whole lot of indirect offsets that we are planning to do. We are looking at developing global supply chains for locally designed, developed products. The product lines for those are under discussions right now. This is what we call ‘Go Global.’

For MSMEs like you won’t Make-II be more beneficial where the projects are fully funded?

This is definitely more beneficial. Once the product is developed it is easier for the government to invest. Make-II gives more confidence to the supplier that the customer will buy because it will be based on a contract with a timeline.

What is your opinion on how the Strategic Partnerships chapter is shaping up? The government is yet to finalise it and it seems the big firms are opposed to having only one SP in one segment?

See part of the problem is that every category there is a PSU that exists. I do not think we have the market for two SPs. It is not an easy task. Let’s see how it unfolds. But they are first looking at fighters to start with the SPs because there is a huge gap there. So let us see how it goes.

Now that you have gained a deep foothold in the market, are you planning to expand your portfolio?

In the electronic space, we are already looking at avionics that includes cockpit avionics and electronics that go into back-end of the aircraft. We are looking at sensor suites, high-end sensors, so we are looking at multiple product lines. Then there is vehicle electronics such as armoured vehicles and tanks. Still there is huge shortage of players in electronic space and then there is huge demand also for electronics.

Are there any plans to expand production units?

We have three production units. These are independent to each other. Instead of going for JVs, we are now looking for joint working groups by either through ToT and giving royalty to foreign OEMs or joint manufacturing without equity infusion.

(This article was published on September 23, 2016)

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...siness-for-us-samtel-chief/article9141228.ece
 
Try not to pay too much mind to the orders number. Norway has only funded the order of less then 20, but it's buying (has authorized) 52 F-35s to replace our F-16s on a one-to-one basis.

It's natural to only fund a certain amount, receive and integrate them into combat units and get familiar with them, then fund the rest. You don't want to place orders for systems that'll have issues while in service. Nation's order a small number, trial and test them in limited or IOC service then decide whether or not to pursue additional orders... and more often then not they do.

He was trying something else , replied him in his own words.

Never mind , the reasons as you said are obvious , that some don't understand while others don't want to.
 
Just a quick question - Will any of the rafales be manufactured in India or not?
 
Just a quick question - Will any of the rafales be manufactured in India or not?

Off the Shelf Purchase....

After the Grand Success of Make in India, the new campaign is in full effect "Buy from Several Countries"
 
is it part of the deal signed?
Not really but this off the shelf purchase lays the groundwork. Dassualt are in talks separately to manufacture >90 Rafales in India (as confirmed by their CEO in Febuary).

The IAF would not be spending 1.8bn EUR on Indian specific upgrades for their Rafales if they were only going to go for 36 units. Such a high cost of Indian specific upgrades only makes sense when spread out over a far larger fleet.

Combined orders for the IAF and IN for the Rafale could touch 200 units.
 
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