F-16 Thread

[EagleEyes]

Pakistan will be getting about 77 F-16s jets consisted of 55 brand new aircrafts and rest will be acquired through third world countries and will be used but of course will have the Mid-life upgrade performed.

The numbers of F-16s are surprisingly still same even with the order of 2 squadrons of J-10 (which yet not have been inked)

Several news papers are quoting that Pakistani officials will soon also visit China to look for the J-10 aircraft, and they might approve the deal.

JF-17 aircrafts will start rolling out by 2007 with 50-50 quantity of the production to both countries until the full transfer of technology is completed.

Pakistani Cabinet approves plan to purchase F-16 fighter jets from Washington

By ASSOCIATED PRESS
April 12, 2006

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan's Cabinet on Wednesday approved a plan to purchase 77 F-16 fighter jets from Washington, a senior minister said.

The decision was taken on the recommendation of the Pakistan Air Force at a meeting in the capital, Islamabad, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told at a news conference.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/42174.html

 

[Neo]

Pakistan set to buy F-16s from US
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad, Pakistan
Published: April 12 2006 20:11

Pakistan’s cabinet on Wednesday gave clearance to the purchase of up to 77 F-16 fighter planes from the US, marking a significant expansion for the country’s air force.
//

The Pakistani government did not reveal the price it would pay for the deal, nor did it say when the aircraft would be delivered. But according to western diplomats in Islamabad, the F-16s could cost Pakistan U$3-3.5bn.

While announcing the cabinet’s agreement to the F-16 purchase, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, Pakistan’s information minister, revealed that the cabinet had also given approval for the purchase of an unspecified number of Chinese fighter aircraft known as FC-10s.

Last November, General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s military ruler, suspended plans for the purchase of new fighter aircraft. Pakistan was then concerned that donors eager to help deal with the aftermath of a devastating earthquake would pull out if the country planned to spend money on planes. Pakistan was seeking more than U$6bn in international aid for relief and reconstruction work. Foreign donors have now offered about $6.2bn.

“Obviously, General Musharraf is confident that the worst following the earthquake is now comfortably behind Pakistan,” said a senior western diplomat in Islamabad.
Buying the aircraft could help General Musharraf politically. Pakistani nationalists have questioned his support for the US-led war on terror, saying the US often benefits more from the relationship than Pakistan.

“The failure to secure new F-16s was often cited as evidence of a policy failure in relations with the US,” said a senior Pakistani official, after Wednesday’s cabinet meeting. “Now, a new agreement for F-16s could help to address that failure”.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/77f14c88-ca52-11da-852f-0000779e2340.html

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Pakistan to buy 98 hi-tech aircraft from US and China
MUSHTAQ GHUMMAN


ISLAMABAD (April 13 2006): Pakistan will purchase 98 hi-tech aircraft from the United States and China besides missiles and other equipment to improve the capabilities of Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

According to an official document, exclusively obtained by Business Recorder, mixed package of hi-tech aircraft and equipment is being purchased from USA and China are as under FC-20 aircraft (36), SD-10 BVR missiles (300), F-16 A/B, ex-Pakistan (26), F-16 C/D (18 with an option for 18 more), BVR, 500(American), targeting pods 18 and joint direct attack munitions (500).The expenditure on the entire package would be met from PAF share in Armed Forces Development Programme (AFFDP-2019), the document says. The Cabinet, according to the document, has allowed PAF to set up Joint Working Group (JWG) with CATIC for procurement of 36 FC-20 aircraft.

The government would also help PAF in securing long-term credit financing for the FC-20 aircraft from Chinese government, besides allowing PAF to initiate a Letter of Request (LoR) for the F-16 package and equipment through the Defence Ministry.

While elaborating the background, Defence Ministry said that PAF gave a presentation to the President and Prime Minister on the state of present fighter fleet and its various hi-tech aircraft options on March 31, 2006.

At present, PAF's combat fleet consists of around 350 aircraft. The bulk of its inventory comprises old Mirages and Chinese-origin A-5, FT-6 and F-7 aircraft. With the exception of F-7 PGs, most of these aircraft are more than 20 years old and are scheduled to retire between 2008 and 2015.

Foreseeing this retirement schedule and the known difficulties associated with replacing all old aircraft with western equipment, PAF embarked upon the co-development of JF-17 aircraft. The induction of JF-17 has been planned so as to have a systematic replacement of the retired fleet.

Regarding hi-tech capability, PAF has seriously lagged over the years, mainly due to various geo-political and economic constraints. In order to redress this capability deficit, PAF has very carefully evaluated the hi-tech options against well-defined air staff requirements.

The requirement of multi-role aircraft with effective and modern operational capabilities, supportability, maintainability and other factors were thoroughly evaluated during the trials of available hi-tech options. In this regard, three aircraft namely, Chinese FC-20, USF-16 C/D and Swedish Grippen were evaluated.

While the US F-16 C/D and Swedish Grippen qualified against the PAF requirements, the Chinese FC-20, in its present state, lagged behind due to the lack of advanced avionics systems and weapons. For the future, however, PAF termed it as a good option with very promising growth potential to become one of the leading frontline fighters to face the challenges of the 21st century.

Further, due to the high cost of Grippen, the F-16 weapon system, along with air-to-air BVR missiles was considered to be the most suitable option to immediately address the critical capability deficit that PAF has accumulated vis-à-vis IAF.

The document suggests that the President had directed the Defence Ministry to move a summary for the Cabinet directing the Ministries of Defence and Foreign Affairs to adopt proactive approach to influence the United States and Chinese Governments for the release of the requisite package.


Copyright Business Recorder, 2006

 

[Owais]

According to an official document, exclusively obtained by Business Recorder, mixed package of hi-tech aircraft and equipment is being purchased from USA and China are as under FC-20 aircraft (36), SD-10 BVR missiles (300), F-16 A/B, ex-Pakistan (26), F-16 C/D (18 with an option for 18 more), BVR, 500(American), targeting pods 18 and joint direct attack munitions (500).The expenditure on the entire package would be met from PAF share in Armed Forces Development Programme (AFFDP-2019), the document says. The Cabinet, according to the document, has allowed PAF to set up Joint Working Group (JWG) with CATIC for procurement of 36 FC-20 aircraft.

what is FC-10 and FC-20??
I heard that PAF is going for FC-1 and a small batch of F-10 (for navy) from china. The article also says that they are going for SD10 BVR a well a AIM120 with only 18 new F16s?.I think they must go fo 50 to 60 new F16C/D block 52 atleast.

 

[melb4aust]

Yeah im a bit concern about FC-20 too. Could you clear that plz...
and
FC-1 is actually the JF-17 thunder, its a chinese name for the thunder.

Going for F-16's is indeed the goverment(Musharaf):p policy to sort personal political benefits out of it and to build the good relationship with US.

Though personally i was against those F-16's and was more in the favour of J-10's( I would also like to start a poll for who's in the favor of F-16 or J-10), in that case Pakistan may not have to rely on US for aircrafts again but its all easy to say and hard to do.

Good luck Pakistan:flag:

 

[melb4aust]

I forgot 1 thing, the artivcal doesnt suggests any thing about (AIM-120) AMRAAM Missiles. I would like more comments on that issue. Cheers:wink:

 

[melb4aust]

Here im starting a new thread with a poll:
What would you like PAF to have
1. F-16 or
2. J-10

Depending on the future outcomes for PAF and considering the political issues involved with the induction as well.

Would look forward for ur useful comments....Thanx

 

[EagleEyes]

J-10s export version is F-10, in case of Pakistan the name will be changed to FC-20 (So its basically the J-10 with whatever configurations Pakistan desires). Also not much news is out regarding the AIM-120 as far as i know, but of course there are rumours that we will be recieving them.

What i am sure though is with the FC-20 we will be recieving some Chinese, Russian equivalent weaponries.

 

[KAHUTA]

I forgot 1 thing, the artivcal doesnt suggests any thing about (AIM-120) AMRAAM Missiles. I would like more comments on that issue. Cheers:wink:

That was my concern also, one article mentioned 500 AIM-120 BVRAAMS. Has the US even offered the BVR missiles to Pakistan?

 

[EagleEyes]

Well if your read an article please try to share with us, because personally i haven't read any article that stated something like this. All i read so far is that Pakistan will be recieving the AIM-9M missiles and Harpoons that will be for the navy.

Its most likely that Pakistan will be recieving AMRAAM, but no conformation officially so far, only rumours remain at their best.

 

[Neo]

J-10s export version is F-10, in case of Pakistan the name will be changed to FC-20 (So its basically the J-10 with whatever configurations Pakistan desires). Also not much news is out regarding the AIM-120 as far as i know, but of course there are rumours that we will be recieving them.

What i am sure though is with the FC-20 we will be recieving some Chinese, Russian equivalent weaponries.

Initial batches are likely to be delivered with Sino-Russian systems, but one can assume that future versions will be integrated with western avionics and weapons.

Good thing is that PAF is inducting three new types simultaniously, we need that to replace ageing fleet of AQ-5,s, FT-6,s and F-7P/PG,s

 

[Owais]

I think we must buy new F16 C/D Block 52 in large numbers (atleast 55). the reason is that F16 have good avionics as compared to F10. the block 52 have AN/APG68 V(9) radar which provides both improved air-to-air capabilities and air-to-ground capabilities. These include:

• Detection range = 140+ Km
• The radar has a programmable signal processor that employs very high-speed integrated circuit (VHSIC) technology.
• Larger search volume and improved track performance in Track While Scan mode;
• Improved track performance in Single Target Track mode;
• Two-foot resolution in new Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode, which allows autonomous delivery of precision, all-weather, standoff weapons;
• Increased detection range in Sea Surveillance mode;
• Improved target detection and map quality in Ground Moving Target Indication mode.
• Also have ASEAD capablity.

The Block 52 is a version which has special provisions for the adverse weather delivery of the JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition).

On the other hand, J10 seems to be more manuverable than F16 due to its TVC engine. but without a suitable avionics, it will be a shooting practice for MKIs and Mirage 4000s.

 

[Kaiser]

I think we must buy new F16 C/D Block 52 in large numbers (atleast 55). the reason is that F16 have good avionics as compared to F10. the block 52 have AN/APG68 V(9) radar which provides both improved air-to-air capabilities and air-to-ground capabilities. These include:

• Detection range = 140+ Km
• The radar has a programmable signal processor that employs very high-speed integrated circuit (VHSIC) technology.
• Larger search volume and improved track performance in Track While Scan mode;
• Improved track performance in Single Target Track mode;
• Two-foot resolution in new Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode, which allows autonomous delivery of precision, all-weather, standoff weapons;
• Increased detection range in Sea Surveillance mode;
• Improved target detection and map quality in Ground Moving Target Indication mode.
• Also have ASEAD capablity.

The Block 52 is a version which has special provisions for the adverse weather delivery of the JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition).

On the other hand, J10 seems to be more manuverable than F16 due to its TVC engine. but without a suitable avionics, it will be a shooting practice for MKIs and Mirage 4000s.

Where gonna get both as confirmed yesterday so I think this thread should be closed. Owais stop being an idiot, there is no such thing as India getting Mirage-4000 (a test bed plane) and your over rating the mki.Pakistan was evaluating the eurofighter which would have given us a clear egde over india but, it would have been highly expencive, and would have been a overkill for the mki (thus revoking a even larger arms race).Pakistan see's potential in the J-10 to beomce on the leading fighters in the future so its gonna go for an initial order of 36-48 but, in the future might increase the order to much more.

 

[Kaiser]

J-10 is referd to FC-20 as confirmed by pakdef sources.The types of F-16's are still unconfirmed and there numbers but its likely to be 55 latest and 25-30 a & b (upgraded to mlu after order).

We dont need to upgrade the Chinese avionics in the J-10 there "ok" not good and not bad but in the future j-10 is destined to be one of the leading fighters ( on par with ef-2000, rafale, JSF, and f-16 block 60)

 

[Owais]

your over rating the mki.Pakistan was evaluating the eurofighter which would have given us a clear egde over india

From which source did you hear that PAF is going for EUFTyphoon?? you know its a 55million euro a peice.
BTW: why Indians are so stupid to go for a test bed plane?

your over rating the mki

no bro., MKI has israeli avionics installed (having radar detecting range of 400km also acts as mini AWAC) with high maneuvariblity.
what I was trying to say is that If F10 is fitted with western avionics, it will be much better than F16. with chinese avionic, it don't have a chance.