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India-Pakistan Ties: Who's at Fault For Failing to Resolve Disputes?

RiazHaq

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http://www.riazhaq.com/2017/09/india-pakistan-ties-whos-at-fault-for.html

India's former foreign secretary Shyam Saran is the latest of a series of ex Indian officials to reveal causes of failures to resolve disputes in India-Pakistan talks in the last two decades. Mr. Saran was part of the process to resolve Siachin and Sir Creek disputes regarded as "low-hanging fruit".



Similar revelations have been made earlier by former Indian RAW chief A.S. Dulat about the last minute interventions by Indian Deputy Prime Minister LK Advani that resulted in the failure of the Agra Summitbetween former Pakistan President Musharraf and ex Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee.

Siachin and Sir Creek:

In “How India Sees the World: Kautilya to the 21st Century”, the author Saran recalls the crucial meeting of the CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) on the eve of India-Pakistan Defense Secretary-level talks in May 2006, where the draft agreement, that had been approved by the Army and other stakeholders, was to be discussed. However, he said two key players, the-then National Security Advisor MK Narayanan and then Army Chief General J.J. Singh made last minute interventions to scuttle the proposal, according to a report in The Hindu newspaper.

“When the CCS meeting was held on the eve of the defense secretary–level talks, [Mr.] Narayanan launched into a bitter offensive against the proposal, saying that Pakistan could not be trusted, that there would be political and public opposition to any such initiative and that India’s military position in the northern sector vis- à-vis both Pakistan and China would be compromised. [Gen] J.J. Singh, who had happily gone along with the proposal in its earlier iterations, now decided to join Narayanan in rubbishing it,” Mr. Saran writes.

Agra Summit Failure:

“This is when L. K. Advani surprised Musharraf by asking for Dawood Ibrahim. This took Musharraf back and a shadow was cast thereafter on the Agra summit.” “As Mr. Mishra put it: “Yaar, hote-hote reh gaya … Ho gaya tha, who toh.” Ex Indian Intelligence Chief A.S. Dulat

The above quote is from A.S. Dulat who has served as Chief of India's Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and as Special Director of India's Intelligence Bureau. He was speaking with Indian Journalist Karan Thapar of India Today on a variety of subjects including Kashmir and Musharraf-Vajpayee Agra summit.

Dulat has essentially confirmed the fact that Indian hawks like the BJP leader L.K. Advani are responsible for sabotaging the India-Pakistan summit.

Who's to Blame?

REvelations by Dulat and Saran have debunked the myth promoted by Indian security analysts, Indian politicians and some western think tanks that regularly blame Pakistan for the failure of past bilateral diplomatic efforts by citing what they believe is the adverse role of Pakistani military in framing Pakistan's policy toward India. This rationale does not explain why the diplomatic initiatives undertaken by Pakistani military leaders from General Zia to General Musharraf have not borne fruit.

Wikileaks on Indian Establishment:

A more rational explanation for the policy failures has surfaced in secret US embassy cables leaked by Wikileaks and published by The Hindu. After a meeting with India's National Security Adviser and former Indian intelligence chief M.K. Narayanan in August 2009, American Ambassador Timothy Roemer concluded that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was isolated within his own government in his “great belief” in talks and negotiations with Pakistan.

Ambassador Roemer said that although Narayanan's hawkish stance on Pakistan was well known, his willingness to “distance himself from his boss (Manmohan Singh) in an initial courtesy call would suggest that PM Singh is more isolated than we thought within his own inner circle in his effort to "trust but verify" and pursue talks with Pakistan particularly in the wake of the hammering his government took from opposition for the July Sharm al-Sheikh statement with (Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza) Gilani.”

Summary:

There have now been multiple revelations by former Indian officials like Shyam Saran and AS Dulat as well as leaked US diplomatic cables detailing the causes of failures to resolve disputes in India-Pakistan talks in the last two decades. These disclosures thoroughly debunk the myth promoted by Indian security analysts, Indian politicians and some western think tanks blaming Pakistan, particularly the Pakistani military, for the continuing failures to resolve bilateral disputes with India.


Related Links:

Haq's Musings

MQM-RAW Connection

Ex-Indian Spy Documents RAW's Successes in Pakistan

Has Modi Stepped Up India's Cover War Against Pakistan?

Ex RAW Chief AS Dulat Blames Advani For Agra Summit Failure

Taliban or RAW-liban?

India-Pakistan Cricket Diplomacy

Counter-insurgencyOperation ZarbeAzb

India's Abiding Hostility Toward Pakistan

India's Israel Envy: Will Modi Attack Pakistan?

Who Killed Karkare?


http://www.riazhaq.com/2017/09/india-pakistan-ties-whos-at-fault-for.html
 
As far as the only fact presented is for dawood. He was well with-in his diplomatic relations to ask for the same. He is well known to be sitting in pakistan. He is rather a good example for shaing pakistan at international arena.

For the relation, its for both parties to agree. Siachen is still ready to close if pakistan accept to demarch it even now.
 
its EGO of diplomacy and benefits of politicians whom stopping to solve issue rather they are creating more and more issues
 
Honestly, the attacks in 1947 by Jinnah's tribals and then the 1965 attack caused way too much bad blood.

When Vajpayee tried, yall did Kargil.

When Manmohan tried, yall did Mumbai.

When Modi tried, yall did Uri, Pathankot etc.

Things have changed now. Now a lot of water has gone under the bridge. There was a time when Indians wanted peace with Pakistan and to just live and let live because that's what Indians have been (pacifist) for millenia but after so many backstabbings by the Pakistan Army, there's way too much bad blood now.

The common Indian on the street wants to just get rid of Pakistan let alone talk to Pakistan and resolve issues.

Also with the new generation coming up, we are far more confident of ourselves and our abilities. We know two things.

1. We don't need to try anymore. Given our rising power and all, we can pretty much reduce Pakistan to a mere nuisance and even work towards its dismemberment gradually.

2. Even if we did try, the PA doesn't want peace because the PA doesn't wanna lose its grip over your country.

In short, there's too much bad blood on both sides now and especially on the Indian side and we Indians feel that we didn't start it but now we will finish it.

its EGO of diplomacy and benefits of politicians whom stopping to solve issue rather they are creating more and more issues

No. There's only one dynamic in this equation and that is Pakistan's rogue army and its Generals.
 
You seem to be saying its all India fault, them feel free to say so, we are in no hurry to solve any issue, so you can carry on for long.
 
BTW what is this Siachen dispute? 1. It's part of J&K which is part of India 2. Yall are not even on Siachen. You are under Siachen lol
 
He was well with-in his diplomatic relations to ask for the same. He is well known to be sitting in pakistan.

He was not "well with-in" his diplomatic right because there is no such mutually accepted mechanism for exchange of criminals. This was India trying to dominate the talks. India has settled border issues with its smaller neighbors on its own terms. Next Advani the Hindu facist probably would've asked to establish Hindutva in Pakistan. Hindus tend to bite more than they can chew.
 
He was not "well with-in" his diplomatic right because there is no such mutually accepted mechanism for exchange of criminals. This was India trying to dominate the talks. India has settled border issues with its smaller neighbors on its own terms.
Yes this was done to dominate the talks since the meet and greet sessions were over and you need to come to the meat that would be included in the MOU/ agreements that need to be released thereafter. It's not like that of pakistan where "taking notice" does the job. I agree there is no mechanism but exchange has been done in the past.

Next Advani the Hindu facist probably would've asked to establish Hindutva in Pakistan. Hindus tend to bite more than they can chew.
When hindus and muslims of India bite off, they chew and create new state called bangladesh.
 
As usual this riazhack is full bs.
The correct question to ask is - why does Pakistan manufacture issues
 
http://www.riazhaq.com/2017/09/india-pakistan-ties-whos-at-fault-for.html

India's former foreign secretary Shyam Saran is the latest of a series of ex Indian officials to reveal causes of failures to resolve disputes in India-Pakistan talks in the last two decades. Mr. Saran was part of the process to resolve Siachin and Sir Creek disputes regarded as "low-hanging fruit".



Similar revelations have been made earlier by former Indian RAW chief A.S. Dulat about the last minute interventions by Indian Deputy Prime Minister LK Advani that resulted in the failure of the Agra Summitbetween former Pakistan President Musharraf and ex Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee.

Siachin and Sir Creek:

In “How India Sees the World: Kautilya to the 21st Century”, the author Saran recalls the crucial meeting of the CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) on the eve of India-Pakistan Defense Secretary-level talks in May 2006, where the draft agreement, that had been approved by the Army and other stakeholders, was to be discussed. However, he said two key players, the-then National Security Advisor MK Narayanan and then Army Chief General J.J. Singh made last minute interventions to scuttle the proposal, according to a report in The Hindu newspaper.

“When the CCS meeting was held on the eve of the defense secretary–level talks, [Mr.] Narayanan launched into a bitter offensive against the proposal, saying that Pakistan could not be trusted, that there would be political and public opposition to any such initiative and that India’s military position in the northern sector vis- à-vis both Pakistan and China would be compromised. [Gen] J.J. Singh, who had happily gone along with the proposal in its earlier iterations, now decided to join Narayanan in rubbishing it,” Mr. Saran writes.

Agra Summit Failure:

“This is when L. K. Advani surprised Musharraf by asking for Dawood Ibrahim. This took Musharraf back and a shadow was cast thereafter on the Agra summit.” “As Mr. Mishra put it: “Yaar, hote-hote reh gaya … Ho gaya tha, who toh.” Ex Indian Intelligence Chief A.S. Dulat

The above quote is from A.S. Dulat who has served as Chief of India's Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and as Special Director of India's Intelligence Bureau. He was speaking with Indian Journalist Karan Thapar of India Today on a variety of subjects including Kashmir and Musharraf-Vajpayee Agra summit.

Dulat has essentially confirmed the fact that Indian hawks like the BJP leader L.K. Advani are responsible for sabotaging the India-Pakistan summit.

Who's to Blame?

REvelations by Dulat and Saran have debunked the myth promoted by Indian security analysts, Indian politicians and some western think tanks that regularly blame Pakistan for the failure of past bilateral diplomatic efforts by citing what they believe is the adverse role of Pakistani military in framing Pakistan's policy toward India. This rationale does not explain why the diplomatic initiatives undertaken by Pakistani military leaders from General Zia to General Musharraf have not borne fruit.

Wikileaks on Indian Establishment:

A more rational explanation for the policy failures has surfaced in secret US embassy cables leaked by Wikileaks and published by The Hindu. After a meeting with India's National Security Adviser and former Indian intelligence chief M.K. Narayanan in August 2009, American Ambassador Timothy Roemer concluded that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was isolated within his own government in his “great belief” in talks and negotiations with Pakistan.

Ambassador Roemer said that although Narayanan's hawkish stance on Pakistan was well known, his willingness to “distance himself from his boss (Manmohan Singh) in an initial courtesy call would suggest that PM Singh is more isolated than we thought within his own inner circle in his effort to "trust but verify" and pursue talks with Pakistan particularly in the wake of the hammering his government took from opposition for the July Sharm al-Sheikh statement with (Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza) Gilani.”

Summary:

There have now been multiple revelations by former Indian officials like Shyam Saran and AS Dulat as well as leaked US diplomatic cables detailing the causes of failures to resolve disputes in India-Pakistan talks in the last two decades. These disclosures thoroughly debunk the myth promoted by Indian security analysts, Indian politicians and some western think tanks blaming Pakistan, particularly the Pakistani military, for the continuing failures to resolve bilateral disputes with India.


Related Links:

Haq's Musings

MQM-RAW Connection

Ex-Indian Spy Documents RAW's Successes in Pakistan

Has Modi Stepped Up India's Cover War Against Pakistan?

Ex RAW Chief AS Dulat Blames Advani For Agra Summit Failure

Taliban or RAW-liban?

India-Pakistan Cricket Diplomacy

Counter-insurgencyOperation ZarbeAzb

India's Abiding Hostility Toward Pakistan

India's Israel Envy: Will Modi Attack Pakistan?

Who Killed Karkare?


http://www.riazhaq.com/2017/09/india-pakistan-ties-whos-at-fault-for.html


Pakistan india ties do not exist. They are even more non-existent than the tooth fairy and purple unicorns. The whole premise of such an article is ridiculous.
 
Sometimes complex problem requires simple mechanism to resolve issues...

Pakistan Gov always says the importance of Kashmir as a root cause of all the problem.But India Gov and people in general do not really beleive that if Kashmir is resolved, Pakistan will stop meddling in our affairs and we will be like other EU nations... Even there are many people in India who also feel that there is definitely an issue in Kashmir that is humanitarian in nature..They would like to come forward and support them...But they can not support with the fear and anxiety that Kashmir issue is used by Pakistan to cause further damage to India rather than fixing the Kashmir problem only...For example, support our so called sikular parties like Congress, Commies and regional parties would definitely come forward to take up Kashmir issue...but there is no guarantee that after Kashmir issue is resolved, Pakistan will not find another reason to corner India in future...

That is one of the reason, why our so called sikular people do not even try to be with Kashmir people because they feel, Kashmir is used as a pawn by Pakistan rather than kashmir cause itself....

In order to bridge that divide, India and Pakistan should resolve certain low risk items like Sircreek...Siachen...We need to build mutual trust amonst each other...We need to understand that both nation should want to be successful on its own merit...India should not consider a downfall of Pakistan as a victory not Pakistan should see it otherwise...Till the point, we do not have that kind of trust with each other, nothing is going to be resolved....

He was not "well with-in" his diplomatic right because there is no such mutually accepted mechanism for exchange of criminals. This was India trying to dominate the talks. India has settled border issues with its smaller neighbors on its own terms. Next Advani the Hindu facist probably would've asked to establish Hindutva in Pakistan. Hindus tend to bite more than they can chew.

Hindutva in Pakistan??? What are you taking man???...
 
What happened to Mumbai terror attack? Hand over Hafeez Saeed. India will be forced to start talks.
 
Pakistanis go to great lengths to make simple issues sound complex. Their behavior is mostly like a common criminal that until he is caught, denies his crime; then when confronted with video evidence he will start blaming the conspiracy of the cosmos.
 

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