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Is the “Pakistan Military” truly Pakistani in origin?

I believe ROTC is only for citizens not foreigners. Nor can expat join Pak Army through ROTC.. any expat has to let go of his dual nationality and appear before ISSB.. I believe they don't have to give preliminary tests that's an added advantage.
And which retired gen became COAS? : 😂


Than keep quiet. What stake do you have in Pakistan? How much tax you paying ? You aren't even Pakistani 😂


And agar Dil mein itna hi Dard hai tou let's see you protest against your countrys military waging wars in Pak and a dozen other Muslim states.

Idhar Bhai k mouh mein dahi jam Jai gi. 😂

Tum log tou apni community k Nahin ho.
Because no matter where I go, I will always be a Pakistani, and my extended family is mostly in Pakistan, and we pay our dues in remittance. Anyways, I doubt a low IQ person like you can comprehend anything outside of your bubble. You are too busy jerking off the Napak fauj. Dumb and dumber is apt for Napak fauj, and its followers.
 
Because no matter where I go, I will always be a Pakistani, and my extended family is mostly in Pakistan, and we pay our dues in remittance. Anyways, I doubt a low IQ person like you can comprehend anything outside of your bubble. You are too busy jerking off the Napak fauj. Dumb and dumber is apt for Napak fauj, and its followers.
Again not your fault, the abusive clown inside you is popping out.

Am zuban mein apko chutiya kahien gai
 
Again not your fault, the abusive clown inside you is popping out.

Am zuban mein apko chutiya kahien gai
Says the citizen of one of the lowest ranked countries in the world, if that can't open your eyes, I am afraid nothing will. Chutiya to tum ho, or perhaps you are one of those that benefit from this crooked "system" of Pakistan.
 
Faujeets above angry that civilians won’t slurp up their ISPR BS anymore.
 
*Guard dog.

Dog spread rabbis.

LINK to original - From “Ancient Pakistan” facebook page

Pakistan Armed Forces - Origins of Arrogance & Civilian Disdain
View attachment 923521

On the day Prime Minister Imran Khan was at the Kremlin in Moscow meeting with President Putin, little is known that senior representatives of the Pakistan Armed Forces were in Washington meeting with senior Pentagon officials.

While the Government of Pakistan was attempting to build a Eurasian alliance (with China and Russia) and strengthening its geopolitical position in an increasingly vocal "Global South" (Asia and Africa), the Pakistan Armed Forces were busy trying to undermine Pakistan's sovereignty and ouster PM Imran Khan.

It's quite clear now after recent events where the loyalties of our armed forces are, and they certainly are not with Pakistan, despite several ISPR music videos which pretend they do.

The announcement by the former COAS where he termed Russia's military operation as an "invasion" should clearly explain to you the mentality of our armed forces. They have always been a problem for Pakistan politically and for decades we pretended that it wasn’t.

In order to understand this problem, we need to discuss where this all originated from.

> Jinnah's Visit To Army Staff College
On 14 June 1948, Jinnah visited the Army Staff College in Quetta where he met with officers and made a public speech at the Officers Mess. To make a long story short, he was shocked by the mentality of the officers and expressed his alarm at their casual disdain for civilian leadership. There is no record of what discussions took place in private between the senior officers and Jinnah, but it does appear that Jinnah was put off by what they said.

Interestingly, the senior-most officer present, next below the British commandant, was none other than Lt. Col. Mohammad Yahya Khan. Two participants of that training course would later rise to the ranks of lieutenant general - they were none other than Major Sahibzada Yaqub Ali Khan and Major Abdul Majid.

Jinnah's view of the military wasn't hidden and upon making his public speech at the Officers Mess, he made his point clear:

“One thing more. I am persuaded to say this because during my talks with one or two very high-ranking officers I discovered that they did not know the implications of the oath taken by the troops of Pakistan...I want you to remember...that the executive authority flows from the head of the Government of Pakistan, who is the Governor General and, therefore, any command or order that may come to you cannot come without the sanction of the executive head. This is the legal position.”

Interestingly, Jinnah's visit is highlighted on the Army Staff College‘s official website, but makes no mention of the contents of his speech.

The military were well aware of Jinnah's stance and insistence of civilian democratic leadership in the newly independent Pakistan. On the very day of Pakistan's independence on 14 August 1947, Jinnah, who had just become Governor General, scolded one young army officer who claimed to have said:

“Instead of giving us the opportunity to serve our country in positions where our natural talents and native genius could be used to the greatest advantage, important posts are being entrusted, as had been done in the past, to foreigners. British officers have been appointed to head the three fighting services, and a number of other foreigners are in key senior appointments. This was not our understanding of how Pakistan should be run.”

Jinnah was not amused and replied back bluntly:

“Do not to forget that the armed forces are the servants of the people and you do not make national policy; it is we, the civilians, who decide these issues and it is your duty to carry out these tasks with which you are entrusted. I should like you to study the constitution, which is in force in Pakistan at present and understand its true constitutional and legal implications when you say that you will be faithful to the constitution of the Dominion.“

What both these incidents indicate is that some within the army had already developed extra-constitutional ambitions within less than a year of Pakistan's independence, even while the father of the nation was alive. How and why did that happen?

Although a universal disdain for civilian leadership is present in military brass around the world, the situation in Pakistan was a little different. Disdain was coupled with arrogance and a superficial superiority complex. To understand the origins of this, we need yet another history lesson.

Sources:
1. https://www.dawn.com/news/844868/civil-military-relations
2. https://www.nation.com.pk/22-Nov-2012/quaid-s-visit-to-staff-college-quetta
3. http://www.jinnahofpakistan.com/2010/04/responsibilities-of-defence-force-14th.html
4. https://www.aajenglish.tv/news/30305592

> Colonial Origins
Contrary to popular belief, the Pakistan Army was not formed in 1947, but rather 1920. How is that possible? The same reason why the Pakistan Railways was established in 1861 - we simply inherited it from our former colonial rulers. In the case of Pakistan Railways, we inherited it from the North Western State Railway.

But where did the Pakistan Army originate from? Here's a brief timeline:

>1857:
- British Raj established - "Presidency armies" formed throughout the colony.

> 1895:
- Presidency armies abolished.
- Replaced with 4 commands; the Punjab, Bengal, Bombay and Madras commands.

> 1908:
- Punjab Command and Bengal Command merged into Northern Army.
- Bombay Command and Madras Command merged into Southern Army.

> 1920:
- Northern Army and Southern Army abolished.
- Reverted back to four commands; this time as Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western commands.

> 1942:
- Northern and Western commands merged to form the North Western Army.
- This was done to better guard the frontier regions of North West Frontier and Baluchistan.

> 1945:
- North Western Army reverted to Northern Command.

> 1947:
- Northern Command renamed to Pakistan Army.

So the Pakistan Army was essentially inherited from the former colonial force present in what would become Pakistan. Similarly, the remaining commands (Western, Eastern and Southern), in what would become the Republic of India, were inherited by the Indian Army.

This is why Frank Messervy is considered the first General of the Pakistan Army. He was made General Officer Commander-in-Chief of the Northern Command in 1946. In 1947, when it was renamed to the Pakistan Army, he was granted the honourary rank of general until 1948.

> North Western Army Culture
The imperial culture of the British Indian Army was one of divide and control.

  1. British officers, who were always higher ranking, were kept separate from "native officers", who were normally lower ranking.

  2. Interaction between officers and civilians was discouraged, especially after 1857, where resentment and distrust against civilians had been further entrenched (especially against the Muslim population as highlighted in the Hunter Commission). The common people of British India were seen as its biggest enemy, and hence the military wanted to ensure that officers were separated as much as possible from the civilian population.

  3. British Indian Army, apart from hospitals, decided to build their own gated neighbourhoods, clubs, golf courses, resorts etc. These were very well maintained and among the best in the entire colony. As a result, the civilian population viewed officers living a luxurious lifestyle.
  4. Furthermore, the North Western Army had a particular daunting task as it had to regularly come in contact with rebelling Pashtun tribes, Baloch tribes and skirmishes in Punjab and Sindh. Of all the commands, the North Western Army was the most stretched and heavily utilized. You would well imagine what the average officer thought of civilians during this period.
> Pakistan Army Inheriting A Mess
Unfortunately in 1947, the Pakistan Army inherited this military culture and nothing was done to expunge the new Pakistan Army of its colonial arrogance and disdain for civilians. Even prior to independence, there was minimal interaction between the political leadership and the future leaders of the Pakistan Army.

After independence, the interaction remained cold and was not helped by the unwise administrative decision to keep civil and military leadership separated, with Karachi as the capital and Rawalpindi as the army headquarters.

Even the nearest provincial capital (Peshawar) was about 200 kilometers away. The farthest provincial capital, Dhaka, was light years away. This perhaps explains why the people of East Bengal hardly ever figured in the calculations of the GHQ, except as an irksome nuisance.

> Questions To Ask Yourself

Place yourself in 1857 and ask yourself these questions:

Why would a colonial power want to establish a military force in its colony? Would it be to protect the common people (the colonized) and serve them? Or would it be to protect the integrity of the colony (the colonizer)?

The answer is obviously the latter. The British formed military forces in all of its colonies to keep the common people (or “natives”) in line by any means necessary. The 1857 War of Independence obviously played a big role in having such a strong force, but it appears the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and subsequent expansion of the USSR also scared the British. Then World War 1 and subsequent rise of Nazi Germany and Colonial Japan leading to World War 2 did not help matters either - all were used as an excuse to maintain a large military force. Sound familiar?

So, if we inherited this colonial military, why today are all of you surprised at the history of military coups?

Why are you surprised by arrogance of military generals or gated communities like DHA or the fact English is still the official language of the military? Has ISPR ever heard of a language called Urdu?

In contrast, the Turkish Army to this day has maintained some of its Ottoman traditions going back over 900 years. Why couldn't the Pakistan Army similarly adopt changes in 1947 to rid itself of colonial disparagement and become a truly independent military force for the people?

We need to have a serious discussion on the role of the Pakistan Armed Forces in politics and where the loyalties of this military actually are.

70 years have past, yet GHQ still thinks it's 1945.

Now do you understand why no PAF jet ever intercepted drones in our airspace?
Now do you understand why the Abbottabad raid was allowed to happen?
Now do you understand who pushed for military coups in our country?

1) EU/US do not request, they pressurize or blackmail.
2) Abbotabad raid was just bullshit, CIA agent Osama was already dead before 9/11, even guradian news reported that, benazir said same.
 
Says the citizen of one of the lowest ranked countries in the world, if that can't open your eyes, I am afraid nothing will. Chutiya to tum ho, or perhaps you are one of those that benefit from this crooked "system" of Pakistan.
Proudly, now since we have established that you aren't Pakistani, nor do you have an iota of decency. Parenting fail 101.

Here is my advice, if you want to interact like a normal person, get your head out of your arse or IKs lap .. And see a doctor for your mouh ki bawasir.
 
1) EU/US do not request, they pressurize or blackmail.
2) Abbotabad raid was just bullshit, CIA agent Osama was already dead before 9/11, even guradian news reported that, benazir said same.

1. What does pressure or blackmail have to do with our air force unable to shoot down drones that violate our airspace? PAF didn’t shoot down any drones because the GHQ allowed drones to murder our citizens.

2. Okay, it was fake. Why didn’t the ISPR refute the claims of the United States? Why did they go along with the American story and kept quiet? Why didn’t ISPR or GHQ vehemently deny the American claims? I’ll tell you why. Because the GHQ was playing along.…they sold the name of this country and its international reputation all for dollars.

Deny this all you want, it’s a fact.
 
I believe ROTC is only for citizens not foreigners. Nor can expat join Pak Army through ROTC.. any expat has to let go of his dual nationality and appear before ISSB.. I believe they don't have to give preliminary tests that's an added advantage.
And which retired gen became COAS? : 😂


Than keep quiet. What stake do you have in Pakistan? How much tax you paying ? You aren't even Pakistani 😂


And agar Dil mein itna hi Dard hai tou let's see you protest against your countrys military waging wars in Pak and a dozen other Muslim states.

Idhar Bhai k mouh mein dahi jam Jai gi. 😂

Tum log tou apni community k Nahin ho.
I were you then I would just shut up instead of making fool of myself further.
 
Again not your fault, the abusive clown inside you is popping out.

Am zuban mein apko chutiya kahien gai

Chutiye like you don't call others Chutiye... Those days are gone when stooges of NaPak army like you starts distributing the certificates of treachery and nationalism to those who toe your line and those who don't.
 
dunno, whoever did was a piece of shit.
Do you think I support any use of force? Bhai sb I'm even against the forcefully disappeared persons issue. Something your IK did nothing about.

Remember Sahiwal? That happened under IKs watch. What about model town massacre? What did PTI do?
What about the killings of TLP goons?

You cant pick and choose.. metha metha hap hap karwa karwa thoo nai chalta.

The same folks who protect the likes of Rao Anwar, Ehsan ullah Ehsan and Uzair Baloch are also behind letting people off the hook for Sahiwal.

Lol IK couldn't get that psychopath Dirty Harry's name mentioned in the FIR when his own Punjab govt was in power.

Interesting that you put Arshad Shareef's murder as "use of force".

Meanwhile, your own former chief is going around and sprouting verbal diarehia that Zarb e Azab was a hoax. Kudos to the merit of the institution where a dhakan like Bajwa goes up the ladder to be a CC and then Army Chief.

I have no delusions about IK. I think he will compromise to get back into power. But his reckoning will come when he does that and it will a lesson for him and all others after him that Pakistanis have had enough of the likes of Bajwa and Dirty Harry killing, torturing and siphening off billions while at the same time using tax payer money to present themselves as saviours.
 
I think I have mentioned this before on this forum, when I was studying in the U.S. university I took ROTC (Reserve Officers' Training Corps) course because its an Easy A. One day my commanding officer called me in his office and asked me If I want to join Pakistan Army as a commissioned officer. He said I can reccomend you for West Point (free of charge) for four year course and direct Lieutenant colonel (or some other big rank I cant remember). This is Pakistan Army folks...so we know who controls Pakistan Army!!

Pakistan Army's training courses in the U.S. must be stopped then and only Then we will have "Pakistan" Army after 20 years, right now Its U.S. Army branch in Pakistan.

Note: India doesn't not even allow its students in the US to even enroll in ROTC

Oh not just that.
The day Fauj's official language is changed to Urdu,
our Units give up colonial silver and other memorabilia
wear shalwar qameez as uniform
and live in the city like everyone else, instead of ASKARI

We will fix the issue.
 
There’s no point crying over spilt milk.

Now that the Military Inc has been exposed to the bone, what are the solutions?

Some practical options for a start

1. Civilian head leading ISI
2. Summon all foreign diplomats against meeting the COAS
3. Jinnah’s golden words of army remaining in their aukaat in every office (instead of Jinnah’s pics). Maybe even print it on every bank note for good measure (went overboard there)
4. Limiting Chief’s tenure to 2 years and no options for extension
5. No military secretary to eavesdrop on political leader’s conversations
6. Military personnel able to approach civilian courts
7. Cut down to ISPR to size, atleast by 90%.

More solutions welcome.

Army officers and soldiers should live along side and in the same way as all citizens do.
The ASKARI thing has to stop , they can't keep carving out specialized living quarters
for themselves away from the very people they are supposed to protect and defend.

Service laws have to be amended, to ensure that no officer partakes in any business,
or any employment, other than he is getting paid to do.

The colonial disease of land allocation upon retirement has to stop. You do a job, you get paid.
IT is absolutely criminal to make a profit out of serving one's own country.

Officers cannot be promoted past Lt Colonel, unless details of their family ( specially connections abroad ) are provided.

Regards.
 
1. What does pressure or blackmail have to do with our air force unable to shoot down drones that violate our airspace? PAF didn’t shoot down any drones because the GHQ allowed drones to murder our citizens.

2. Okay, it was fake. Why didn’t the ISPR refute the claims of the United States? Why did they go along with the American story and kept quiet? Why didn’t ISPR or GHQ vehemently deny the American claims? I’ll tell you why. Because the GHQ was playing along.…they sold the name of this country and its international reputation all for dollars.

Deny this all you want, it’s a fact.

1) country is weak financially and military wise, if you look at Ukraine-Russia war, in spite of stocks of nuke, Russian economy is sinking, our country was stuck in FATF. We were unable to get out from it.

2) May be Obama want 2nd term for president, highly chances govt/millitary was at same stage to accept this bullshit of Abotabad for US.
 
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