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Modi's 'Mad Dog Posture' - Credible threat or a populist farce?

@Alfa-Fighter, this is from India's own internal Army report, the Henderson-Brooks report:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...list-Neville-Maxwell/articleshow/33094229.cms
It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

Are you accusing your own Army of lying? :lol:

You attacked us while we were in the worst famine of our history, at China's weakest point, yet you still lost.

Now the tables have turned. Even the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day".

Or are you going to accuse your own Army of lying again?
 
@Alfa-Fighter, this is from India's own internal Army report, the Henderson-Brooks report:
It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

Are you accusing your own Army of lying? :lol:

You attacked us while we were in the worst famine of our history, at China's weakest point, yet you still lost.

Now the tables have turned. Even the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day".

Or are you going to accuse your own Army of lying again?

Dude, that is from an interview of a biased reporter. Not the report.
 
@Alfa-Fighter, this is from India's own internal Army report, the Henderson-Brooks report:
It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

Are you accusing your own Army of lying? :lol:

You attacked us while we were in the worst famine of our history, at China's weakest point, yet you still lost.

Now the tables have turned. Even the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day".

Or are you going to accuse your own Army of lying again?
Well.... the report said , some other factual points......

We did not attack in 67 , Chinese did and that time Indian army was prepared unlike 62. Moreover Same things happen in 80's also that time Indian Army Air dropped full battalion in front of Chinese just 5 meters aways... Chinese Send SOS and agree to goes back.

Most of the cases Chinese Came and Indian Army confirm them and they go back and Indian Army stays.

The statement you quoting was years back, after that indian Army raised Special Mountain Attack Corps especially to attack inside China and Defensive divisions. unlike in 62 where Indian only have defensive div and now it has dedicated offensive corp for china.

Moreover Chinese was not interested in solving the border problem, as not result yield after ages of talk. So india decided to raise military posture.
 
Dude, that is from an interview of a biased reporter. Not the report.

According to the Henderson-Brooks report, India set up military outposts far beyond the McMahon Line, in pure Chinese territory, that India did not even claim!

Dhola Post that triggered war was on China's side of McMahon Line | Business Standard

Even Indian Army commanders on the ground were confused, because their own maps showed that they were on pure Chinese land.

Then Nehru ordered the Indian Army to "throw the Chinese out", of our own land!

That was the beginning of the 1962 war. It was Indian military forces who came into pure undisputed Chinese territory and then tried to forcibly throw us out of our own land. You started the war, that is clear from your own internal military report.

And despite attacking us during the worst famine in our entire history, our weakest point in the past 200 years, you still lost.
 
According to the Henderson-Brooks report, India set up military outposts far beyond the McMahon Line, in pure Chinese territory, that India did not even claim!

Dhola Post that triggered war was on China's side of McMahon Line | Business Standard

Even Indian Army commanders on the ground were confused, because their own maps showed that they were on pure Chinese land.

Then Nehru ordered the Indian Army to "throw the Chinese out", of our own land!

That was the beginning of the 1962 war. It was Indian military forces who came into pure undisputed Chinese territory and then tried to forcibly throw us out of our own land. You started the war, that is clear from your own internal military report.

And despite attacking us during the worst famine in our entire history, our weakest point in the past 200 years, you still lost.
lol actually history was something else . Nehru order Army not fire , even when Chinese stand in front of their post...... so most of India post lost like that... then Indian Gen. gone to Nehru and told him, if he do not give order to fire , he is talking over the india immediately..... after that only started to firing back.

Even that time CIA /US advised india not to use AF which consider by military a great blunder to listen CIA advise. If India used AF that time, Chinese would have been stopped that time only.

Henderson-Brooks a known... we don't know much about history what happened .... but after that Chinese tried again in 1967 and 80s' and got full reply....

As of now India given Chinese a map detailing its LCA and asked china to observe it. Chinese don't have given India a MAP consider what they think LAC should be. this is the pretext chines army used now IA is increase it force to counter china moves.
 
According to the Henderson-Brooks report, India set up military outposts far beyond the McMahon Line, in pure Chinese territory, that India did not even claim!
Accidentally making a post is not attacking you. Besides, HB talks about immediate events, tactical reasons. Why not start from 50'. Why not describe why Nehru had to order forward policy?
 
Brilliant thread. Even though "mad dog" is used just as a posture here but interestingly also applies to Modi in its literal meanings too.
 
Cho-La incident ( and the Indian response to 80's adventurism of China) proved that even minor skirmishes will not happen on India-China border. Posturing by China will be responded in kind.
 
i know ....
having opinion is one thing and making it as atttiude is another
modi have controversial past .. accepted
tagging him all bad adjective when highest court of india cleared it.. SC resect by all indian above all ......so that name calling is either childish or satisfiying ego of few who cant see beyond the bend ..
or they just dont understand what indepdant judicary is all about.
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Protest is our right when somthg worng is hapnig..
taking action on same is their right and responsibilty...
seems Responsibility is repalce by resistance in this case
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Reminder - 2
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1. Mao
if same thing happened .. i apologize behalf of my fellow indians
if that is so.. please write to MOD to add in Policy that inclduing gandhi and jinnah MAO also be in same list ...
@Horus @Chak Bamu @Oscar@WebMaster
Can we add Mao Zedong in list of father of nation which should not be abuse / degraded

2. Head of state ..
Please be clear on calling, naming Head of state ..
i wrote it last time also but either ignored or decision awaited.
Respect is dered to Head of state ..
Same happens in Human / civil society..
having opinion is one thing .. you have right to have it
but
no right to abuse .. seems this is given free hand on same issue
Mods are culprit too in this.. sorry that a sad fact

these issue
setting bad precedent for PDF ..
218776_upload_2014-10-25_22-27-5.png

Reminder - 2
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@Chak Bamu @Oscar @Fulcrum15@WebMaster
i know its usless to call mod for this as i did many times but no result...

1.Calling PM of India as Terrorist /Mass murder..

Court Clears Narendra Modi in Riots Case - India Real Time - WSJ
The attacks on Muslims exploded across Gujarat after around 60 people were killed when a train carrying Hindu activists was set on fire near the town of Godhra. A Supreme Court-monitored Special Investigation Team in 2012 said it found no evidence that Mr. Modi had any role in the state-wide killings

Please See BOLD part that indian SC cleared him when themselves were monitoring probe.. enough said..

you may have perosnal opinion about modi .. fine but as ADMINISTRATOR calling head of nation terrorist is right?
on what basis PDF Management alllowed to call indian PM terorist..

1. is he decalred Terrorist / Muderd in indian couert .. NO
2. is he decalred Terrorist / Muderd in international couert ..NO
3. is he tried in Int court of jutice for genocide .. NO

US Court summon
yes.. he was summmon but for why ...
New York has issued summons against the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi for his alleged role in presiding over the anti-Muslim pogrom in Gujarat during 2002 when he was Chief Minister of the state.
US court issues summons against Modi - The Hindu

So its Alleged not proven,,
as per Law of natural jusice..
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence
Right to be Considered Innocent until Proven Guilty

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Then how and What paramet PDF Managet allowd calling him those adjective..
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Silence of Mod
You have right to remain silent but not at cost of Truth and Duty...
its you Duty to stand by on side of Truth based on Facts and Data .and logic...
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I rest my case here...

My friend, I am too busy these days to visit PDF and actively moderate. You are right, Modi should not be called names like that. However, he does have a cloud of suspicion hanging over him since more than a decade. That has consequences, especially in light of escalation on our borders. So, I would like to take some sort of action, but I am afraid it will be too little too late.

BTW a forum is as good as its posters. The incessant troll wars are such a drain. Hopefully rampant trolling will be checked in near future.
 
Old but related.

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting

BY RUPAM JAIN NAIR AND MEHREEN ZAHRA-MALIK

NEW DELHI/ISLAMABAD Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:40am BST

(Reuters) - To judge from the shrill outrage of India's TV news channels, the past week's bloody clashes along the border dividing Kashmir are all Pakistan's fault: one network has been plugging the Twitter hashtag #PakBorderDare.

However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

"The message we have been given from the prime minister's office is very clear and precise," said a senior Indian Home Ministry official. "The prime minister's office has instructed us to ensure that Pakistan suffers deep and heavy losses."

In his first extensive comments on the violence, Modi told a political rally on Thursday - when 1,000 Indian mortars rained across into Pakistan - that "it is the enemy that is screaming".

"The enemy has realised that times have changed and their old habits will not be tolerated," he said.

The exchange of mortar and gunfire across a populated border area of Jammu, in the lowlands of Kashmir, has been India's most serious brush with Pakistan in a decade. Almost 20,000 Indian civilians have fled their homes to escape the fighting, taking refuge in schools and relief camps.

The guns fell quiet on Friday, hours before the Nobel committee named an Indian child rights crusader and Pakistan's teenage education activist Malala Yousafzai as this year's Peace Prize winners. But heavy firing resumed on Saturday And continued into the early hours of Sunday.

Modi's robust approach towards Pakistan, supporters say, is aimed at emphasising India's superior strength and making Pakistan's military think twice before firing across the border.

It is a strategy he also used to stand up to India's larger neighbour, China, during a border standoff between several hundred Indian and Chinese troops on the Tibetan plateau that coincided with President Xi Jinping's visit to New Delhi last month.

But the new stance risks more violence in the Himalayan region of Kashmir, already one of the world's most volatile fault lines, and has eroded a border truce that has largely held between India and Pakistan since 2003.

The nuclear-armed rivals have fought two of their three wars since independence in 1947 over Kashmir, which is divided between them and claimed in full by both.

Since Modi's election victory in May, military commanders have been encouraged to step up border patrols and retaliate with more force if they come under attack. New Delhi has insisted there can be no talks with Pakistan unless it ends shootings and pushing militants into the Indian side of Kashmir.

"This is what we feared would happen if Modi came to power," said Ikram Sehgal, a former Pakistani military officer and chairman of one of the country's largest security companies.

"This could easily escalate into something that won't be good for Pakistan or India."

RISKY GAMBLE

India may be gambling that Pakistan can ill afford to inflame hostilities in Kashmir while its army is engaged in a full-blown offensive against jihadi militants close to Afghanistan.

But the stakes are also high for India.

An editorial in the Indian Express on Friday called for cooler heads, saying further escalation would damage India's reputation as a responsible nation and attractive investment destination, and could rekindle a separatist insurgency on its side of Kashmir.

Officials say India's new policy is being orchestrated by Ajit Doval, the country's national security adviser, a decorated former intelligence official renowned for his role in dangerous counter-insurgency missions. He has long advocated tough action against Pakistan-based militant groups.In conversations with Reuters as head of a right-wing think tank in New Delhi before he joined the new government, Doval said India must lay down core security policies, one of which was "zero tolerance" for acts of violence.

In August, after days of cross-border firing between India and Pakistan, Doval attended a meeting at the Home Ministry along with the head of the para-military Border Security Force (BSF) and a decision was taken to give a free hand to the ground commanders in Jammu, a top security official in the region told Reuters.

Until then, the BSF, which guards the Jammu section of the border with Pakistan, had complained that instructions on how to respond to provocations were unclear.

"It is a very tough stand that our top bosses want us to take against Pakistan and the tone is very different from the previous government," said the Home Ministry official.

"The previous government indulged in lip service. Publicly the former home and defence minister would showcase an assertive stand against Pakistan but actually neither BSF nor the army was given a free hand."

A spokesman for India's defence ministry did not respond to requests for comments.Pakistani military leaders say they have been taken aback by the level of aggression of Indian forces over the last week.

At a time when the Pakistan army is combating militants in the tribal areas in its northwest they do not want the distraction of battling India on its eastern flank, they said.

"India is deliberately putting pressure on Pakistani security forces by opening this new front," said a senior Pakistani military official posted on the border. "The message from India is clear: 'We will teach you a lesson.'"

Indians in the border areas of Kashmir, who have lived through decades of cross-border firing, said they themselves had noticed a change in tactics by the Indian forces.

"Pakistan fires one, our boys fire six back," said Atma Ram, 71, who was standing about 300 metres (yards) from the electrified fence that separates the two countries in the Suchetgarh area near Jammu. "They are giving a response we should have given before."

(Additional reporting by Sanjeev Miglani in ARNIA, India and by Fayaz Bukhari in SRINAGAR, India; Writing by Andrew MacAskill; Editing by John Chalmers, Frank Jack Daniel and Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters
 
My friend, I am too busy these days to visit PDF and actively moderate. You are right, Modi should not be called names like that. However, he does have a cloud of suspicion hanging over him since more than a decade. That has consequences, especially in light of escalation on our borders. So, I would like to take some sort of action, but I am afraid it will be too little too late.

BTW a forum is as good as its posters. The incessant troll wars are such a drain. Hopefully rampant trolling will be checked in near future.
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First let me appreciate you for replying..
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Yes i agree .. that MOD team here works g8 time and effort .. so thing take time .. fine ..
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Modi
thanks you accepted at least that is the issue.
i just wanted PM/president position to be respected as policy of pdf
as here we cant go behind Jiinah and Gandhi .. accepted..
then how can we go ahead and Abuse same constitution and position they wanted to create ?
we are defeating purpose and vision of father of nation ..of both country
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Troll..
troll happen either due to members .. ot no clear policy .. or issue which close to heart than brain ..
atleast we can clear policy level if not other too as earliest..
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Mao..
just a request... can we add Mao of china in same respcet level of gandhi and jiinah..
many would be disagree but he did what its best for his nation..
so please consider ...
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hope issue will get sorted soon
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Thanks ...
 
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Mao..
just a request... can we add Mao of china in same respcet level of gandhi and jiinah..
many would be disagree but he did what its best for his nation..
so please consider ...
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No need man. People can attack us as much as they like, as long as we are confident in ourselves none of that matters.
 
No need man. People can attack us as much as they like, as long as we are confident in ourselves none of that matters.
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its not about people its about policy dear ...
respect Should be / would be given where its due..
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its not about people its about policy dear ...
respect Should be / would be given where its due..
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i may not be agree with Mao and its policy even against it..
but
what he did for china its . enough to respect him..
 

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