Musharraf justifies relationship with Israel

[Kompromat]

While I can understand your sentiments, but why against the Israelis only? Are the Chechens and Kashmiris not undergoing the same and even others?

If we have diplomatic relations and talk to the Russians and Indians, and Greeks etc. etc., then why can't we talk to the Israelis?

Emotions aside, logically (even from an Islamic standpoint) we are not consistent in our approach. This is my humble opinion.

Turks gave some tough love to the Israelis but the only way they were able to do so was because they had relations with the Israelis and by way of this, some leverage. We are nowhere. As much as we want to be players in the ME game, we have no leverage on either side.

Let everything aside all that matters to me is the end results & if that liquidates into an Independent Palestinian state and a total end to Israeli Nazism , then me and many like me in Pakistan would welcome it.

As for leverage , any decision taken to solve this dispute has my appreciation but we must take every step carefully as we also have Kashmir on table to be solved and for that matter we need support of our OIC members no matter what level of support that might be.

The issue is even if Pakistan accepts Israel as a state and start diplomatic relationship i am not convinced that Pakistan would be able to play any important role or have any sort of influence on a regime that holds a "world record" in human rights violations , extra judicial killings , use of mossad death squads , white phosphorus bombs and defying more UN resolutions (posted above) than any other country in the world.

With due respect dear brother Pakistan having Israel on a diplomatic relations list cannot do more better for the plight of our Palestinian brothers than what we are doing right now.

Turkey has had relations with Israel and what did they get 9 dead bodies of innocent and peaceful Turkish activists killed in cold blood in international waters , people who were trying to get food to the starving kids of ghaza ?

This is What Pakistan should expect too . Egypt almost surrendered to Israel because if its nuclear power which has significant influence on what Egypt decides to do.

If this is whats being done already with those who have tried to befriends with zionists then we shouldn't expect anything different.

Thanks.

 

[Kompromat]

Average Israeli people would probably be more respectful towards Pakistanis than arabs are. arabs view Pakistanis as 3rd class citizens.

You cannot blame anyone for having certain perceptions about you , you are who you are and you are like this because you haven't done anything to change this.

We are a 3rd world country ,very much so and if people like you kept coming and kept blaming others for what totally is our own incompetence than we would stay who we are for eternity.

Unity , Faith , Discipline Our old man died telling this to us , its a recipe for greatness and an image changer.

apna maqam khud paida kar

 

[Kompromat]

I don't understand what's wrong in nurturing diplomatic relation with a country? Blackblood is coming so strongly with so called Muslim brotherhood but is it so not applicable with India? India's illegal operation in Kashmir (as considered by Pakistan), still we have trade ties, then why not Israel...

No offense intended but this religious ideology keeps you isolated from the world, not that you shouldn't help your brothers, but it doesn't mean you should consider yourself one family and rest of the world other... And then you say the entire world suppress you..

Pakistan needs to know what its getting into.

Read this.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/87980-israel-must-like-mad-dog-too-dangerous-bother.html

 

[ajtr]

The General Wants Back into His Labyrinth​

Pakistan's former military leader has announced he's returning from exile and wants his old job back. Here's what he would do differently -- and why he wouldn't want Hamid Karzai as his counterpart next door.

Pervez Musharraf: I call Nawaz Sharif a closet Taliban. He's a man who is -- who has been -- in contact with Taliban. He is a man who, today, appeases the clerics and mawlawis [Sunni Islamic scholars] -- the extremists. Moreover, he has tried [his hand at leadership as prime minister] twice in the past -- and he has failed. Why are we giving him a third chance to destroy Pakistan? My new party is an alternative to the people of Pakistan with the hope of changing the conditions of the people of Pakistan and the state.

Pervez Musharraf:: If you see my Facebook [page], which I launched eight months back, I have a fan [base] of 350,000 now today .

FP: Is it true, however, that some parts of the state security apparatus has sympathies with the Taliban -- as they did in the past?

PM: Yes, yes, that's right. Elements who have sympathy toward Taliban or al Qaeda in the past were there. They must still be there. But to blame the Army or the ISI is just having a very negative impact. As I said, the Army is there doing their job; it has suffered so many casualties. If anyone thinks that [there are rogue elements] at a strategic level -- at the level of the government or the Army headquarters or the ISI headquarters -- that there is an instruction being given down to cooperate with the Taliban -- this is absolutely baseless.

There may be some elements who are [cooperating with the Taliban]. But even there, we must understand and differentiate between strategy and tactics. Strategically, we have to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda. But the moment [the West starts to] micromanage how to do that, we are in conflict with those [security forces] that are operating on the Pakistan side.

 

[RazPaK]

Hey f'that man. As a pakistani whose father helped the arab cause in terms of the airforce, I 100& support the palestinian war against oppresion. If pakistanis ignore the israeli occupations of arab land then how can we support the kashmiri cause? I don't want to look at this situation as an arab, or a nationalist pakistani trying to see what is in it for me. As a muslim I support these people for the abuse and the oppression these muslims brothers of mine, go through. Any pakistani that doesn't support the Palestinan cause is stuck in the colonial mindset. As muslims from Asia, all we want is outside countries to stop making decisions for us. We want to be left alone, so that our societies can evolve and progress on their own

Pakistani Zindabad

 

[MyPakistan1947]

You cannot blame anyone for having certain perceptions about you , you are who you are and you are like this because you haven't done anything to change this.

We are a 3rd world country ,very much so and if people like you kept coming and kept blaming others for what totally is our own incompetence than we would stay who we are for eternity.

Unity , Faith , Discipline Our old man died telling this to us , its a recipe for greatness and an image changer.

apna maqam khud paida kar

I'll never support the arabs. Never.

 

[Developereo]

What I am only saying is that the British partitined Palestine on religious grounds. The 1948 boundaries of Israel were around areas of Jewish majorities.

The decision to give Palestine to Jews was made when they were only 3% of the population. Jewish migration had to be implemented to boost the number of Jews so that a viable state could be formed.

The timeline is well documented.

Pre-WW1: Theodor Herzl forms the Zionist movement and calls for a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Pre-1917: Low key Jewish migration including legal and clandestine deals to start buying up land in Palestine. Jewish population reaches 3%.

1917: Near the end of the WW1, when the Central powers (Germany+Ottomans) were losing and Bolshevik Russia was emerging, the Brits signed the Balfour Declaration giving Palestine to the Zionists.

1917-1948: Large scale Jewish migration by the Western powers. Jewish groups were the first to use terror in the Middle East. The Irgun gang and the Haganah both used terrorism against British and Arab civilians to achieve their goals.

he even nearly put india and pakistan on the right tracks to solve the kashmir issue.......

He was wiling to give Kashmir to India by accepting the LOC as a final solution. That alone is reason enough to kick him away.

 

[Icarus]

Musharraf always speaks and takes decisions based on his own illusionist mindset.

We give support to Palestinians not to make Arabs happy but because of the principle and our belief of them deserving freedom and rights to their occupied land.

I am sick of this childish BS of Pakistan having relationship with Israel. Israelis zionists are committing human rights violations everyday , killing people , raping women , using phosphorous bombs , blockading food supplies thus having a full NAZI like attitude towards Palestinians.

To all those who say that we should overlook that "Sharam se Doob maro !"

One needs to understand intl politics, do you know the single largest source of funding to the TTP ? It's donations from our muslim brothers in the oil rich gulf, Saudia, and Pakistani's overseas(Particularly Britain). So God forbid if you should be involved in a bomb blast, remember that every ball bearing that tears through your flesh and the explosive that knocks your eardrums out while simultaneously peeling the skin off your flesh, do remember that it's a gift from another muslim brother, through a muslim brother, to a muslim brother.
That's one side of the coin, now the other. We all want to see an end to the Palestine conflict, quite simple. But how can we convince Israel about the wisdom of ending this conflict, when we don't even acknowledge their existence ? It's almost like trying to convince a wall. However, if we have a proper channel through which we can discuss ways to resolve the Palestinian issue then we stand more chance of finding a solution. That's why I believe we should acknowledge Israel's existance.
You have to look at the bigger picture........

 

[Luftwaffe]

I think the conclusion is first fix things in our backyard before jumping into another Dimension. You guys are thinking of a longshot not exactly there ain't going to be any rewards in return.

 

[rameez ahmed]

Whatever this maniac Musharraf says are not the words of the entire Pakistani Muslims..... He was nothing but a pathetic Dictator in Pakistan, who supported Islamic Modernism to destroy Islam in Pakistan, during his rule ...

A common Pakistani man will never accept the terrorist state of Israel unless the issue of Palestine is solved... We never accepted Terrorist state of Israel during the last 60 years, and we will not accept them unless their terrorism against Palestine is finished.. Even Quaid e Azam stated that Pakistan will not accept Israel unless Palestinian issue is solved..

If few Pathetic arab leaders like that of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, etc have sold themselves to Israeli terrorist state and US, it doesn't mean that all arabs are friends of the terrorist state of Israel... Don't fall in that mistake.

If any Pakistani Muslim on this forum is thinking that we should be making relationship with this Israeli terrorist state for military weapons and economic ties, then he/she should be ashamed of themselves even for thinking about it and being Materialistic in such a crucial issue of Muslim Ummat... These muslims should fear Allah and should think that how will they face Allah after death, for their support of Israeli aids; the aid from the country who is killing our brother Muslims and is feeling proud of such Massacring ..

 

[PureAryan]

Sorry but you are probably mistaken. Gandhi certainly had staunchly supported a unitary state and not a division on the basis of religion. Under Nehru, the GoI took a similar stand at the UN and provided a plan of a single state with autonomous Jewish and Arab majority union.

However, the creation of Pakistan on the basis of religious majorities was one of the reasons the British used to justify the creation of Israel on the basis of Jewish majority regions.

Another ignorant bharati which has no idea of pakistani history, Pakistan wasn't created on 1947 like bharat, It has been in existence since 7000BC, Pakistan is a cradle of civilization

It was because of you people(hindustanis) we became slaves of brits, We were living separately from hindustan until 1844 when brits with their slave soldiers of bharat attacked and invaded sindh and punjab and made us slaves

Judging by your name, you must be muslim, Then i guess Maulana Azad must be your hero,

However, the creation of Pakistan on the basis of religious majorities

Let me say this final time, bharti muslims were converted to islam after the establishment of delhi sultanate in 13 century, while we pakistani muslims have been muslims for 1300 years, Arabs invaded Sindh and Punjab in 711 AD, You bharati muslims have nothing to do with Pakistani muslims, Even during Delhi Sultanate the sultan used to distinguish sindh muslims(pakistan was knows as sindh in those days) from the newly coverted hindh muslims we were always separate from you, Stay away from us, You bharti and bengali muslims were always united and also were converted 500 years after pakistan

Pakistan wasn't created on basis of religion
"We are a Nation with our own Distinctive Culture and Civilization, Language and Literature, Art and Architecture, Names and Nomenclature, Sense of Values and Proportion, Legal Laws and Moral Code, Customs and Calandar, History and Tradition, Aptitudes and Ambitions; in short, we have our own Distinctive Outlook on Life and of Life. By all Canons of International Law, We are a Nation". (Quaid-e-Azam) Mohammad Ali Jinnah in one of his letters to Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

One needs to understand intl politics, do you know the single largest source of funding to the TTP ? It's donations from our muslim brothers in the oil rich gulf, Saudia, and Pakistani's overseas(Particularly Britain). So God forbid if you should be involved in a bomb blast, remember that every ball bearing that tears through your flesh and the explosive that knocks your eardrums out while simultaneously peeling the skin off your flesh, do remember that it's a gift from another muslim brother, through a muslim brother, to a muslim brother.
That's one side of the coin, now the other. We all want to see an end to the Palestine conflict, quite simple. But how can we convince Israel about the wisdom of ending this conflict, when we don't even acknowledge their existence ? It's almost like trying to convince a wall. However, if we have a proper channel through which we can discuss ways to resolve the Palestinian issue then we stand more chance of finding a solution. That's why I believe we should acknowledge Israel's existance.
You have to look at the bigger picture........

The Pakistani Community in Britain loathes the Taliban. Can you tell me which "charities" are fronts for the TTP? I'd rather not donate my moeny there.

Another thing, the Arabs have done NOTHING for Kashmir. They just sign deals with India, think about that, when people are moaning about how we'd be signing a deal with the country that commits human rights violations..India does the same in Kashmir, yet, the arabs are perfectly happy to sign contacts with them with our blood on the line.

 

[DV RULES]

we should work closer behind the scenes with them; strictly professional, cautious approach.

if Palestine issue is resolved, we should establish ties with them as I think we have some values and goals in common. Some similar history as well (the only 2 states founded on religious grounds; situated in region that are hostile, etc)

I agree with you Partially because at this moment there is very interesting situation in that region because some Latin American countries accept the Palestine as independent state and Israel and US opposed their acceptance of Palestine. Actually this is a drama

1. Acceptance of current lined Palestine to protect and stop their struggle for further movement.
2. Israel permanently will take control of Jerusalem area.
3. Palestine leader diplomatically can’t claim on Jerusalem area and on boundaries of 1947(UN Partition plan) File:UN Partition Plan Palestine.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
4. To calm down Arab movement against Israel.
5. To force Palestine to accept current boundaries.

They want to step out from this problem to concentrate on Lebanon, Syria & Iran.
Our position and policy about Israel is in correct line.

 

[Icarus]

The Pakistani Community in Britain loathes the Taliban. Can you tell me which "charities" are fronts for the TTP? I'd rather not donate my moeny there.

Another thing, the Arabs have done NOTHING for Kashmir. They just sign deals with India, think about that, when people are moaning about how we'd be signing a deal with the country that commits human rights violations..India does the same in Kashmir, yet, the arabs are perfectly happy to sign contacts with them with our blood on the line.

If you ask me, don't donate to any charity, ask any of your relatives to donate to Edhi for you in Pakistan and you can wire the money to them. That's where I donate my money.
Many people send the Taliban private donations as well, my cousin is a chemical engineer and even he got convinced by some of his friends that the Taliban were Islamic Mujahideen and that sending them donations was his Islamic duty. It took me 4 hours on the telephone to sort him out but even then he was not sufficiently convinced. Only after I went to England, talked to him in person and showed him on video, the barbaric behaviour of these animals did he realize that anyone so cruel cannot be on the path of righteousness.
And right, the Arabs either avoid the Kashmir issue or the support India on it.

 

[EjazR]

@PureAryan

Your Pakistan Studies propaganda does not pass on as history. Its best to make opinions based on facts and reality. Islam actually came first to Kerala much before to Sindh or Afghanistan were muslims have been present for over 1400 years. But the fact of the matter is, a longer muslim lineage is nothing to proud of. It is YOUR actions TODAY that counts. A new convert muslim can have a higher status than you even if you have a 1300 year history of being muslim. So brandishing a "muslim history" is just hot air.

Maulana Azad(who incidentally has a Bengali father and a Meccan mother) is a hero for every Indian and as he should be Muslims around the world if only you read up on him.

@Developereo
The fact of the matter is when Israel was created in 1948, they used the principle of religious majorities to draw the line as it was used in the sub-continent. It doesn't matter who migrated when, this was the BASIS of creation of Israel.

This is FACT, that the only two countries created on the basis of religious majorities are Israel and Pakistan and no one can deny this. That is all.