My Question ? If JF 17 is capable enough why we are purchasing even used F16

[That Guy]

Actually, in whole conversation its you, who came atop as Stupid.
My remarks are repeated by many sane members in their own words.

Sure, keep telling yourself that.

 

[CHI RULES]

Latest F16s are not so maneuverable as with more thrust their weight has also been increased. Once India gets even 36 Rafaels Pak shall be compelled to go for any 4.5th gen fighter jet most chances are of current J series Jets. Without AESA upgrade which is unlikely to happen for Pak F16s (reasons already discussed) we can't counter Rafaels till our Block -III Jf17 is ready (only if it will have AESA,IRST, High ceiling , Mach2+ speed and powerful engine.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Latest F16s are not so maneuverable as with more thrust their weight has also been increased. Once India gets even 36 Rafaels Pak shall be compelled to go for any 4.5th gen fighter jet most chances are of current J series Jets. Without AESA upgrade which is unlikely to happen for Pak F16s (reasons already discussed) we can't counter Rafaels till our Block -III Jf17 is ready (only if it will have AESA,IRST, High ceiling , Mach2+ speed and powerful engine.

The issue is not how PAF will counter Indian threat by JF-17's but why is it looking to purchase old or new F-16's.

To understand this one has to see:
1 Currently PAF has to replace around 200 aircraft.
2. Production rate of JF-17 is not up-to the required rate to quickly replace these old ones.
3. The training process is slow because of no twin seat JF-17 made.
4. At present F-16 pilots are being sent to JF-17's Thou some outstanding pilots do come directly from other platforms.
5. Infrastructure requirements are more in case of inducting a new platform.

 

[Chanakyaa]

The issue is not how PAF will counter Indian threat by JF-17's but why is it looking to purchase old or new F-16's.

To understand this one has to see:
1 Currently PAF has to replace around 200 aircraft.
2. Production rate of JF-17 is not up-to the required rate to quickly replace these old ones.
3. The training process is slow because of no twin seat JF-17 made.
4. At present F-16 pilots are being sent to JF-17's Thou some outstanding pilots do come directly from other platforms.
5. Infrastructure requirements are more in case of inducting a new platform.

Great Points.

 

[Saifullah]

Fade away? You bet. F-16 begun life in late 1960s. First flight was in 1974. The Viper is soon going to celebrate 50th birthday so I reckon this old warbird needs to retire soon ......

Ps. Despite all the dramabazi over the Thunder I suspect when "shite hits the fan" and PAF pilots have to face the latest Indian Sukhoi's they would prefer being in a F-16. Even today at the tip of PAF's spear is the old reliable Viper that we first got in 1983 .....

I know next to nothing about aircraft but i notice the Chinese PLAAF has equipped it's frontline squadrons with Sukhoi's as opposed to the Thunder ....



Oh yeh? Big deal. Our Thunder beats the Viper in "dramabazi"
So there ....

Kudos to your "Logic" sir

F-16 has higher T/W ratio and higher g rate. Also F-16 is much faster.

Will / can a fully loaded F-16 pull 9G ?

 

[500]

This is also true with MLU F-16 having upgraded engines.
Still, JF-17 is not far behind in T/W ratio and what g figures are you comparing?

F-16 MLU
7393 kg empty weight, 3249 kg fuel, 10791 kg thrust.
Thus with half fuel and 500 kg weapons it will have 1.13 TWR

JF-17
6586 kg empty weigh, 2300 kg fuel, 8600kg thrust
Thus with half fuel and 500 kg weapons it will have 1.04 TWR

G-rate of F-16 is 9 and JF-17 is 8.

Will / can a fully loaded F-16 pull 9G ?

Not of course. When we talk about agility we mean in fighter configuration.

 

[Saifullah]

Not of course. When we talk about agility we mean in fighter configuration.

So does it matter if F16 have 9Gs and JF-17 have 8Gs or 8.5Gs ?
F16's plus is Engine thats it.
In terms of agility, JF-17's LERX and Intake ( F16 intake have more Drag compare to JF17) have plus point over F16.
If JF17 gets better Engine then JF-17 by pass on F16 on every aspect.

 

[Bilal.]

F-16 MLU
7393 kg empty weight, 3249 kg fuel, 10791 kg thrust.
Thus with half fuel and 500 kg weapons it will have 1.13 TWR

JF-17
6586 kg empty weigh, 2300 kg fuel, 8600kg thrust
Thus with half fuel and 500 kg weapons it will have 1.04 TWR

G-rate of F-16 is 9 and JF-17 is 8.


Not of course. When we talk about agility we mean in fighter configuration.

8700 kg thrust for JFT.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

8700 kg thrust for JFT.

specs from Paris Airshow - Block I

 

[500]

So does it matter if F16 have 9Gs and JF-17 have 8Gs or 8.5Gs ?

Of course. You can make sharper energy turns. And in sustained turns F-16 is winning thanks to its TWR.

Only place where JF-17 can outperform F-16 is low speed turns, thanks to better wing loading. But its hardly relevant in battle.

In terms of agility, JF-17's LERX and Intake ( F16 intake have more Drag compare to JF17) have plus point over F16.

F-16 also has LERX + it has integrated airframe. As for intake, lower F-16 intake has advantage over side since during turns half of it is not shadowed.

 

[Saifullah]

Of course. You can make sharper energy turns. And in sustained turns F-16 is winning thanks to its TWR.

Only place where JF-17 can outperform F-16 is low speed turns, thanks to better wing loading. But its hardly relevant in battle.

I will ask you again can it pull 9Gs fully loaded i.e fighter configuration ?

shadowed or not if intake is full filling the Engine Combustion air need then that's it doesn't matter shadowed or not.

 

[My-Analogous]

My Question ? If JF 17 is capable enough why we are purchasing even used F16

We need to replace 250 plane within 5 years b/c all our fleet is old third generations. If we produce 25 planes per year then we requires 10 years and it will hurt PAF, Thus used F16 is a good option

 

[Gazi]

JFT Blk1 is Fourth Gen AC for replacement of Aging Fleets of Third Gen Mirage and F7s while F 16 is still our front line Fighter right now especially Blk 52 and its also fourth Gen. Pakistan doesnt have 4.5 Gen AC in its Fleet so far and maybe J10 could fulfill its purpose until Firth Gen J31 Program is Matured and available to Pakistan.

 

[500]

I will ask you again can it pull 9Gs fully loaded i.e fighter configuration ?

Yes it can.

shadowed or not if intake is full filling the Engine Combustion air need then that's it doesn't matter shadowed or not.

At afterburner engine consumes insane amount of air and if one of intakes is shadowed amount of air might be not enough, reducing its power.

 

[Saifullah]

Yes it can.

nvm I hope may be it could.

At afterburner engine consumes insane amount of air and if one of intakes is shadowed amount of air might be not enough, reducing its power.

that would be a major design flaw if it couldn't do that.