NATO copters violate Pak airspace

[RabzonKhan]

What sovereignty? We ceded much of our territorial sovereignty in FATA years ago, “In international law, sovereignty means that a government possesses full control over its own affairs within a territorial or geographical area or limit.”

We get extremely angry and emotional when for few minutes our “sovereignty” is violated by NATO, but, why aren’t we angry at heavily armed Taliban, AQ, Uzbek and Chechen terrorist who control much of FATA.

It’s high time to get each and every inch of our country back... then, NATO will have no reason to violate our “sovereignty”.

 

[India Rising]

i think there is trust deficit between NATO and pakistan...... if in case there is china in place of US there won't be any problem.

 

[KS]

Firslty i am surprised you feel you have the right to lable people...

Secondly you underestimate the people who post here, by a large margin. In the end this will be your downfall, your overconfidence. We are not blind, keep that in mind.

Jingos in my lingo means overly nationalistic people --- anything derogatory ??

BTW do I need to quote posts by you,sir, calling other posters arbitrarily as 'Trolls' ??

 

[Vajra_Yuddh]

Folks, I think that the violation happens due to mistakes by the regional air force's mistakes too. For example if the gunship crossed into Pakistani territory, as a standard procedure the PAF air traffic controller has to communicate to the gunship pilot telling him to change course direction and head out of Pakistani airspace.

Here 3 situations can come up:-

1) The gunship pilot acknowledges mistake and complies with the ATC by either requesting an escort (in case of bad weather or something) or simply ask the coordinates and direction to return if very close to border.

2) The gunship pilot in case of having some radio problem, switches his alert system (similar to commercial jets) to tell that his radio isn't working and his entry wasn't intentional. In this case, a fighter escort is sent to direct him out and if the countries are allies, or neutral the pilot is asked to land at the nearest base while the matter is immediately notified to diplomatic mission of that country.

3) The gunship pilot intentionally enters the airspace, assaults or attempts to assault some particular targets, ignores ATC warnings and also the 3 warnings of fighter escorts and engages in a hostile manner.

Now this clearly seems to be a dual sided mistake. If there is no ATC in that area, then there will definitely be ground radars that will pick up and communicate similar procedures. If you see what happened, I think it was simply an over-estimation of distance and terrain and the pilot eventually realized his mistake and left.


People here are simply blowing this as a potential threat. I laughed when I heard gunships would come to your national capital . Even NATO is not stupid enough to do that undeclared.

 

[SQ8]

Not disputing the one half --- other half the US fires on its own volition inside the sovereign territory of Pakistan.



Exactly they are for local consumption only and in no way reflects the realities.These 'protests' are worth nilch to US.If they deem necessary they will do.



Depends on who executes the pilot ---- If in anyway it is found out that FC or the Army is complicit then I dont need to say what will happen.

Also even if its the Taliban themselves,then it will provide even more reason for the US to extend the scope of the drone attacks and bring in other aircraft if deemed necessary.

P.s.: My post was always addressed to those jingos who think that PAF should shoot down a Attack chopper if it crosses again. I just want them to know its not that simple.Because you shoot down an attack shopper -- what will you do the next time if some B-52s or A-10s come escorted by F-15s and F-18s..Still you will want to try to shoot them ?

The incursion that involved the intrusion of the MH-60's into our airspace found an army AH-1 inbound at its postion...and interceptors scrambled. It is easy to do that..
The terrain is rough.. and we have a radar network there..courtesy of the Afghan war..
If B-52's A-10.. anything comes in..then we unleash the Taliban we negotiated to hold back on the Americans..
If are to play Cambodia..then Afghanistan will become the next vietnam...it can be done.
Moreover..
The American would have to be damn stupid..and damned irresponsible to attempt anything as such.
They are smart enough not to risk own lives where there isnt a need for it.
All the chopper incursions.. are what happens in war.. You are after an enemy.. he is wily.. call it target fixation.. what not. mistakes happen.
Or should I mention Kargil shootdowns.. where the Migs crossed the lines..and did not return...since it was war.. and we were far from your allies.
It is an IAF Bahadur pilots own testimonyon the tactics he had to employ to hit troops on mountaintops...and avoid crossing the international border.
Those that did.. one is dead..the one we caught.
Its that simple.

 

[KS]

The incursion that involved the intrusion of the MH-60's into our airspace found an army AH-1 inbound at its postion...and interceptors scrambled. It is easy to do that..
The terrain is rough.. and we have a radar network there..courtesy of the Afghan war..

Agreed..No disputes in that.Again Im saying all this scrambling hoopla is only for domestic consumption.Pakistan will not and cannot shoot down a USAF property.Its like shooting your own foot (or maybe head)

If B-52's A-10.. anything comes in..then we unleash the Taliban we negotiated to hold back on the Americans..

Sorry but I dont find anything sensible in doing that....What will you get in return ?? If you think its a meek surrender from the US then you are grossly mistaken. They always find it easy fighting against 'uniformed' soldiers than against irregulars and PA or PAF is no match for US Army or USAF.

If are to play Cambodia..then Afghanistan will become the next vietnam...it can be done.
Moreover..
The American would have to be damn stupid..and damned irresponsible to attempt anything as such.
They are smart enough not to risk own lives where there isnt a need for it.

Yes hope it doesnt go to that end.Pakistan has more to loose than US in that case.

All the chopper incursions.. are what happens in war.. You are after an enemy.. he is wily.. call it target fixation.. what not. mistakes happen.
Or should I mention Kargil shootdowns.. where the Migs crossed the lines..and did not return...since it was war.. and we were far from your allies.
It is an IAF Bahadur pilots own testimonyon the tactics he had to employ to hit troops on mountaintops...and avoid crossing the international border.
Those that did.. one is dead..the one we caught.
Its that simple.

Why is it so difficult for you guys to understand that you cant do the same that you did to 1999-India to a 2010-US??

Or are you equating USAF with IAF ??

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Jingos in my lingo means overly nationalistic people --- anything derogatory ??

BTW do I need to quote posts by you,sir, calling other posters arbitrarily as 'Trolls' ??

Troll= Is a term everyone on the internet can understand and comprehend, it can be googled should one wish and is liberally applied to those who derail or flame.

Jingo = Something you have made up... Could mean anything, i could use terms in pushto or farsi you wouldn't understand and may find offensive... So lets stick to English or Weblish shall we.

 

[KS]

Troll= Is a term everyone on the internet can understand and comprehend, it can be googled should one wish and is liberally applied to those who derail or flame.

Jingo = Something you have made up... Could mean anything, i could use terms in pushto or farsi you wouldn't understand and may find offensive... So lets stick to English or Weblish shall we.

It doesnt matter what it means --- You accuse me of branding someone unilaterally while you yourself have done it plenty of times.

BTW this will do you a lot of good.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/forum-information/41367-troll-fatwas.html

Yeah we will stick with the forum rules !

 

[GentlemanObserver]

It doesnt matter what it means --- You accuse me of branding someone unilaterally while you yourself have done it plenty of times.

BTW this will do you a lot of good.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/forum-information/41367-troll-fatwas.html

Yeah we will stick with the forum rules !

Hahah... Firstly before i get a warning for derailing the thread i just want to clarify something. The troll fatwas are pretty balanced around here, just check some of the genuine posts by Paksitani members being declared troll posts by your esteemed countrymen.

I know the rules sunny jim, better than you think. No need to copy paste them, your not a mod so if i am breaching anything i will let the mods inform me of my trespasses.

Till then if you don't like my posts, report them. Don't go around typing nonsense like "Jingo" or "Ringo" or "50/50" or whatever made up nonsense you type to have a dig at us Pakistanis.

Good day to you now..

 

[KS]

Hahah... Firstly before i get a warning for derailing the thread i just want to clarify something. The troll fatwas are pretty balanced around here, just check some of the genuine posts by Paksitani members being declared troll posts by your esteemed countrymen.

I know the rules sunny jim, better than you think. No need to copy paste them, your not a mod so if i am breaching anything i will let the mods inform me of my trespasses.

Till then if you don't like my posts, report them. Don't go around typing nonsense like "Jingo" or "Ringo" or "50/50" or whatever made up nonsense you type to have a dig at us Pakistanis.

Exactly --- you stole my words.I am not a mod and I'm sure you too arent one !

Good day to you now..

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Exactly --- you stole my words.I am not a mod and I'm sure you too arent one !

Acha yarr we lost Karan because all this tit for tat. Here have a cup of chai and a biscuit, lets stick to the thread before the mods ban us both.

 

[Vajra_Yuddh]

Firslty i am surprised you feel you have the right to lable people...

Secondly you underestimate the people who post here, by a large margin. In the end this will be your downfall, your overconfidence. We are not blind, keep that in mind.

Sir you aren't blind I fully agree. But I want to know that what military solution can you apply against this intended situation if at all it is intentional. NATO copters must surely have an objective to intentionally enter your territory that is often unmarked between Afghanistan and Pakistan in most areas.

Due to this not being unmarked, it becomes difficult and in a join operation like WOT, errors like this might have a bit regularly though I doubt it was intentional. Diplomatic protest and sticking to protocol is the only logical solution here than many members demand here "shooting the copters down". That would needlessly antagonize an ally for no reason.

Who knows whether the incursions are accidental or not since area is not marked clearly.

 

[Bhim]

In my lay man understanding, Pakistan is 'Major Non NATO Ally' on WOT.

That means it allows NATO to actively pursue terrorists on its soil.

Or are there restrictions and limits imposed by Pakistan to the extent of cooperation to fight terrorism?? In that case its not a full ally.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

In my lay man understanding, Pakistan is 'Major Non NATO Ally' on WOT.

That means it allows NATO to actively pursue terrorists on its soil.

Or are there restrictions and limits imposed by Pakistan to the extent of cooperation to fight terrorism?? In that case its not a full ally.

That means it allows NATO to actively pursue terrorists on its soil.

Not without an agreement... There is no agreement in place..

Or are there restrictions and limits imposed by Pakistan to the extent of cooperation to fight terrorism?? In that case its not a full ally.

Every country has restrictions, the UK has several US bases but they "due to public pressure" refused to host and Extraordinary rendition flights to and from Gitmo on UK soil.

 

[CENTCOM]

Reports of helicopters crossing into Pakistan today are false

KABUL, Afghanistan (Nov. 26) – International Security Assistance Force is aware of a claim by the Xinhua News Agency that two NATO helicopters crossed into Pakistan’s air space today.

ISAF confirmed through operational reporting and the U.S. Embassy in Pakistan that no ISAF aircraft crossed the border and there have been no reports of injuries. ISAF was not contacted for comment prior to the publication of the Xinhua article.

DET-US Central Command
CENTCOM