PAK pilots on Sukhoi's

[Bossman]

comparing aircrafts and pilots is like looking at one part of the equation. The other parts are maintainence and pilot availiablity. SUs despite being superior aircraft on paper are very maintainence instensive and despite assembling them locally IAF has limited overhaul capability. India does not even locally manufacture basic items with high turnover like tires. Secondly IAF has severe shortage of pilots, while PAF has almost twice the number of pilots compared to the number of planes. This suggests that PAF will be able to maintain a higher sortie rate than the IAF.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Those older two seats flankers are most likely SU-30MKK, since J-11BS has just recently entered into the service.

I tend to believe these are J11BS. Maybe Pakistan is getting interested in J11BS, and China is letting PAF try them out to find out if these birds are up to the requirements of PAF.

 

[Silk]

If j10 is 10% better then jf17 for almost triple the costs then PAF is prossibly researching for a better option (longer range, more ordnance, good strike capability). J11 is a bigger and better platform then J10A.

 

[Black Widow]

comparing aircrafts and pilots is like looking at one part of the equation. The other parts are maintainence and pilot availiablity. SUs despite being superior aircraft on paper are very maintainence instensive and despite assembling them locally IAF has limited overhaul capability. India does not even locally manufacture basic items with high turnover like tires. Secondly IAF has severe shortage of pilots, while PAF has almost twice the number of pilots compared to the number of planes. This suggests that PAF will be able to maintain a higher sortie rate than the IAF.

good... when you will stop giving such lame explanation...

 

[Black Widow]

i think generally people take PAF pilots above IAF because of their tough training , past records and experience....

One more fanboy stuff.... Think before you speak..

 

[krash]

good... when you will stop giving such lame explanation...

When will you stop visiting these forums...? Your flame posts are getting boring....please show a little creativity

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

oh is it? what if both the drivers are masters of their own vehicles??
nyway.. don't take that comment seriously. it's just a light laugh!!

lol that ll allow the sneaky one to look around opponents car and find weakness...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Ahm... two things quickly...

firstly... in one of the pictures where the chinese girls are giving PAF pilots flowers... one of our boys is wearing glasses? Dont you need 20 20 vision to be a pilot... or is he just associated staff?

secondly... when are we inviting our Chinese counter parts to fly one of our F 16s??

 

[fatman17]

Santro

You suuggested the PAF pilots poo pooed the TVC concept in a WVR environment and claim its obselete.

But theres only 2 TVC fighters in the world today io think

F22 RAPTOR & SU30MKI. So how can it be obselete. TVC gives pilots AOA that are not possible on other fighters.

More importantly i think the Americans would not have incorprated this if it was deemed vital.

PAK FA will also have TVC

Mig-29VT or SMT something like that!?

 

[fatman17]

I tend to believe these are J11BS. Maybe Pakistan is getting interested in J11BS, and China is letting PAF try them out to find out if these birds are up to the requirements of PAF.

u may have a point here, esp if the J-11B is 100% chinese!? - i'm sure the PAF would want some 'modifications' as usual.

 

[Comet]

I think PAF has invested a lot of time in J-10 program. This J-11 idea doesn't seem appropriate. Besides, PAF has issues with twin engine.

BTW, can any one post the current prices of both J-10 and J-11?

 

[SQ8]

The F-22 was based on requirements back in the 80's..
The YF-23 did not need the TVC at all.. to achieve similar performance..
What TVC gives is the ability to point your nose faster.. and turn tighter..
however.. the new heatseekers combined with HMS.. have taken all this rapid turning out of the equation... which is why the JSF.. which is based on technology(not capabilities) superior to the F-22... has no need for it..
no longer does a pilot need to look through the HUD to target a fighter..
all he has to do is to look at it.. and shoot.
The other possible advantages of TVC would be maneuvering to avoid a missile..however with the newer crop of missiles capable of 50G+ maneuvers.. even that is irrelevant.
TVC offers immense advantages.. especially in WVR.. and slow speed flight.. it is however.. lost its leap due to newer missiles... almost all new missiles incorporate TVC in some form(apart from the ASRAAM)..
todays close combat.. wont be turning and burning..
in most cases.. 4 vs 4.. would lead to one survivor.. or none perhaps.. not a pretty prospect.
The advantage used to be with who could get their nose to bear on the enemy first.. the MKI will.. till the introduction of the FGFA.. always get its nose to bear first.. but that becomes irrelevant.. when the opposing fighter pilot only has to look at the MKI to shoot at it.
With a TVC equipped missile.. using a dual seeker.. even with IR jamming.. the MKI crew would have to be very lucky to survive.

technology has taken the fun out of air combat..

and the MKM.. along with the Su-35 BM.. also have TVC...

 

[SBD-3]

If j10 is 10% better then jf17 for almost triple the costs then PAF is prossibly researching for a better option (longer range, more ordnance, good strike capability). J11 is a bigger and better platform then J10A.

so what would J-11 be offering over JFT? 100% not necessarily. Why PLAAF went on with J-10A induction rather than beefing up J-11s. CAC has a better reputation in China that SAC.

 

[SBD-3]

u may have a point here, esp if the J-11B is 100% chinese!? - i'm sure the PAF would want some 'modifications' as usual.

J-11BS is very new to service, I doubt Chinese would have bring that platform over here. If PAF would have been interested, it would have been a single seater J-11B rather than a twin seat. I could only think of other twin seats UBK and MKK. Most likely it would be MKK. If there would have been something like interest, it would have been out by some rumors. PAF has said nothing about its change of plan. So unless something concrete comes out, lets hold our cards.

 

[John Doe]

What TVC gives is the ability to point your nose faster.. and turn tighter..
however.. the new heatseekers combined with HMS.. have taken all this rapid turning out of the equation

and the MKM.. along with the Su-35 BM.. also have TVC...

Firstly , even the MKI carries HOB missiles while equipped with the Sura HMS.

Secondly, TVC has benefits not just for air combat. Other benefits include reduced take off and landing distance, reduces the fuel consumption of the aircraft due to the lower thrust requirement, which in turn increases the aircrafts flight range. TVC provides engine-based flight control. The benefits of reduced dependence on a rear tail are reduced drag, reduced aircraft weight, and less radar cross section. There's lots more, I am googling this too.