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Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

Can someone remind me please exactly why the US has blocked export of T-129 ATAK to Pakistan but its perfectly fine to be exported to the Phillipines?

Because US is trying hard to get Philippines to their side to contain China in South China Sea. They have been trying vey hard to get ASEAN countries to choose side against China.

In South Asia, Indian is now a very useful pawn for US to contain China in Indian Ocean as well as in South West region of China. Pakistan will not stand against China thus has no value to US's interest in South Asia, and US lead NATO forces were already pulling out from Afghanistan when US decided to stop the T-129 deal between Turkey and Pakistan.

If you are not a US pawn in their global chess game, you don't get the carrot.
 
Because US is trying hard to get Philippines to their side to contain China in South China Sea. They have been trying vey hard to get ASEAN countries to choose side against China.

In South Asia, Indian is now a very useful pawn for US to contain China in Indian Ocean as well as in South West region of China. Pakistan will not stand against China thus has no value to US's interest in South Asia, and US lead NATO forces were already pulling out from Afghanistan when US decided to stop the T-129 deal between Turkey and Pakistan.

If you are not a US pawn in their global chess game, you don't get the carrot.
Difficulties of ASEAN countries are: Even some of them have issues with China, their best interest replies on being neutral.

China obviously has a friendly foreign policy as long as other nations keep neutral.
On the other hand, an eye for an eye foreign policy will be applied if other nations are hostile toward China.

Philippines had relatively good relationship with China before 2013, until Benigno Aquino III started opportunism foreign policy, betting on US.

What benefit did Philippines get? Lost control over islands in SCS.

India is the same old story. BJP/Modi adopted opportunism and aggressive foreign policy against both Pakistan and China.

What benefit did India get? Lost control over 1000 sq km land in Ladakh.
 

A shame - but Pakistan has waited long enough to upgrade it's attack helicopters. This also means that Pakistan has "moved" on from the AH-1Zs and the Americans will need to find something new to do with them..

I am sure PA will evaluate the T-929 when it comes online and that can form the higher end of the mix. There is a lesson for Turkieye in there aswell somewhere - ie make your products ITAR free from the outset !!!!
 
Can someone remind me please exactly why the US has blocked export of T-129 ATAK to Pakistan but its perfectly fine to be exported to the Phillipines?


Because they have been trying to keep Pakistan down and on it's knees throughout our history.

Sanctions from 1965 to 1982,
Sanctions from 1990 to 2002,
unspoken sanctions since the second Obama term, so nearly a decade and continuing.

Pakistan has not developed with the help of other countries, it has develop despite the obstacles. If Pakistan had same access as other countries, such as India, we would be in a heck of a better position.
You cannot control how you get treated, you can only control how you handle yourself. I think we've done rather well, if we stop our infighting, we would do a lot better.
 
Critical statements specific to Pakistan from TAI CEO KOTİL
News CenterAugust 5, 2020
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Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc. (TUSAŞ) CEO Prof. Dr. Temel KOTİL was a guest of the TV channel In Focus South Asia and made critical statements about Pakistan.
Emphasizing that Turkey and Pakistan are two great nations and that they should work together, KOTİL said, “We have several helicopter programs and 5 of them are domestic. We continue to work on the engine to be used in the T129 ATAK helicopter. This developed engine will also be used in Turkey's future helicopter programs. We will solve the engine problems and deliver 30 helicopters - 30 T129 ATAK helicopters exported to Pakistan - to Pakistan. Also, we are working to carry out more different studies in Pakistan. Not just T129 ATAK; T625 GÖKBEY, T629 and Heavy Class Attack Helicopter…” he said.

Stating that there has been a direct connection between the Presidency of Defense Industries and the Presidency in the recent period, and the developments in the sector are reported directly to the President, Prof. Dr. Temel KOTİL referred to the Defense Industry Support Fund (SSDF), which is a special fund for the defense industry.
Stating that there should be more cooperation between Turkey and Pakistan, KOTİL said, “We are building a new technology center in the Pakistan Aviation Complex (PAC) Kamra. There should be more relations between Turkey and Pakistan. There are many areas where we can work together, such as helicopter projects, National Combat Aircraft (MMU), HÜRJET Jet Trainer, HÜRKUŞ and Mushshak.” made statements.
ATTACK
T129 ATAK (Pakistan)
Between Turkey and Pakistan; The 1.5 billion dollar agreement covering the export of 30 T-129 ATAK Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopters, produced by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ), was signed in 2018. It is aimed to equip the Pakistan Armed Forces with ATAK helicopters within the scope of this purchase, which is the second largest export agreement made with a single item in the history of the Turkish Defense Industry.
Look at the date the article was published.
 
Pakistan junks deal for Turkish helicopters, 'hopeful' of getting Chinese gunships
Web Desk Updated: January 06, 2022 15:42 IST

t-129.jpg

T-129 helicopters | Turkish Aerospace Industries


The Pakistani military confirmed on Wednesday that a $1.5 billion deal to buy 30 attack helicopters from Turkey had been abandoned.

Major General Babar Iftikhar, director general of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the military’s PR wing, spoke about the attack helicopter deal during a press conference on Wednesday.

Responding to a question, Iftikhar said, “As far as the Turkish deal is concerned, we have moved on”. He confirmed Pakistan was in negotiations with China for attack helicopters, noting “hopefully, we will be getting some gunships [from them]”.

In 2018, Pakistan agreed to buy 30 T-129 'ATAK' helicopters made by Turkish Aerospace Industries. The T-129 is an upgraded version of the Italian-designed A-129 helicopter. The T-129 has a gun and can fire rockets and missiles. The Pakistani deal was the first export contract for the T-129.

The T-129 uses engines made by LHTEC, a joint venture of Rolls Royce and Honeywell, a US company. The Donald Trump administration had declined to give LHTEC export clearance for selling the engines to Pakistan.

The US refusal to allow export of the LHTEC engines had been linked to the spat over Turkey's purchase of the Russian S-400 missile system.

Turkey had made considerable efforts to persuade Washington to change its mind. In December 2020, media reports claimed the Turkish government had hired Capitol Counsel, a lobbying firm, to aid in efforts to obtain export clearances for the LHTEC engines.

The Turkish government had also embarked on a project to develop an indigenous engine for the T-129, but this was unlikely to be ready before 2025, according to reports.

Pakistan had given extensions to Turkey to fulfil the contract.

The T-129 was selected by Pakistan to replace its aging fleet of US AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters. In 2015, Pakistan sought the purchase of 15 AH-1Z 'Viper' attack helicopters from Bell Helicopters, a US firm, at an estimated cost of $952 million. However, the transfer of the AH-1Z fleet to Pakistan was embargoed in June 2018 after the Donald Trump administration announced a freeze on military aid to Islamabad.

Since 2020, there have been reports, Pakistan could consider the Z-10ME, an upgradedversion of the Chinese Z-10 helicopter.Compared with earlier model Z-10s, the Z-10ME is equipped with upgraded engines, sensors and self-defence equipment.

Interestingly, Pakistan had conducted trials of both the T-129 and earlier model Z-10s in 2015-2016. Reports suggested the Chinese helicopter had under-performing engines, which minimised its effectiveness in carrying a maximum load of weapons in operations in high-altitude areas.


 
Perhaps Turkey did not get the permission from the US to sell to Pakistan.
Indeed, Turkey did not get the permission to export it to Pakistan but it got permission to export it to the Phillipines though.

The US is out to deny Pakistan US military technology.

On the other hand, I've not heard whether any Z-10 MEs have even been trialled in Pakistan yet like three Z-10s were delivered, rigorously tested and eventually rejected.
 
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Because they have been trying to keep Pakistan down and on it's knees throughout our history.

Sanctions from 1965 to 1982,
Sanctions from 1990 to 2002,
unspoken sanctions since the second Obama term, so nearly a decade and continuing.

Pakistan has not developed with the help of other countries, it has develop despite the obstacles. If Pakistan had same access as other countries, such as India, we would be in a heck of a better position.
You cannot control how you get treated, you can only control how you handle yourself. I think we've done rather well, if we stop our infighting, we would do a lot better.
Wow more like sanction since Pakistan's first major war in 1965 except two stretches during the 2 Afghan wars. Some friends they are.
 
Not the end of the road. I am sure we are keeping an eye on Turkish development of Heavy Class. T-129 is not available due to American engine but in heavier class; China & Turkiye are offering an option and not just PAA but PN as well, surely looking at it.
 
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