Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Quwa]

i agre mark that the F16 is still an excellent platfor and also that the infrastructure and training for thme is not a problem for PAF but bro what do we have to say about the reliability of relation with US. i think this is the only reason why PAF might bail out of US military procurements!!

regards!

As Pakistan is a MNNA, it has access to acquiring excess defence articles (EDA) such as used F-16A/B & C/D airframes for use as spare-parts. As they are cheap or even free, the PAF can acquire enough of them from the U.S. to keep its F-16s active for a fairly long time.

Remember, we're talking about specific U.S. weapon-systems such as the F-16s, C-130s, Bell-412EPs, AH-1S/F Cobras, Chinook, Apache etc. Despite being American, these systems are widely used globally, and supported by an extensive manufacturing & maintenance support network around the world. Compared to very expensive European systems operated by very few countries, the above American weapons are (1) cheap, (2) widely operated & available and (3) very effective/potent.

Using this rationale, I'd say that the AH-64 Apache would be a better purchase for PA than the European Tiger. The AH-64 is widely operated, even by regional neighbours such as KSA, UAE, etc, and is a tried & capable system. There are many used Apaches available, and can be upgraded to Longbow-D standards - just look at the U.S. offer to South Korea. PA can acquire 2~3 squadrons of AH-64, and acquire higher numbers of dead airframes for spare-parts...in case of sanctions. The same applies to CH-64 Chinook.

IMHO...the Pakistan should continue acquiring American weapon-systems based on the above rationale. However, it should also initiate parallel programmes for the longer-term. Obviously this requires funds, but IMO best serves the bang for the buck...

 

[Ahassan]

and yes we r going for kc-135 or the KC-10 Extender
actualy the old ones....talks r underway!

 

[Quwa]

and yes we r going for kc-135 or the KC-10 Extender
actualy the old ones....talks r underway!

No doubt KC-135 and KC-10 are options, but I still think PAF is inclined towards the A-310 MRTT. The MRTT-series can take up both boom and hose + drogue forms of refueling, allowing F-16, JF-17 and FC-20 to refuel. In addition, the MRTT can also perform medical evacuation, troop & cargo transport, etc. However, EADS is pushing the A-330 MRTT to the PAF - which is an expensive system. On the other hand, the long-term and quality benefit is clearly there.

 

[ejaz007]

A link to the F-16 ceremony on the face book:

Defense Security Cooperation Agency's Photos - Pakistan F-16 Inauguration | Facebook

 

[MastanKhan]

No doubt KC-135 and KC-10 are options, but I still think PAF is inclined towards the A-310 MRTT. The MRTT-series can take up both boom and hose + drogue forms of refueling, allowing F-16, JF-17 and FC-20 to refuel. In addition, the MRTT can also perform medical evacuation, troop & cargo transport, etc. However, EADS is pushing the A-330 MRTT to the PAF - which is an expensive system. On the other hand, the long-term and quality benefit is clearly there.

Hi,

Awhile ago, here in the u s---the airbus won the acknowledgement by the millitary for being the refueller and the rest of the stuff---and boeing lost---but then they got the politicians invovled and cancelled the purchase--( I can be correted on that )----the u s millitarty liked the multiple applications of the airbus---and preffered it over the boeing.

 

[TOPGUN]

I still think that PAF won't forget our f-16's for mid air refueling won't go unseen its just a matter of time something hits the pipeline!! i just wonder wat..

 

[ice_man]

i don't understand one thing....for 3 squadrons that we will use as our main "strike force" we will actually go buy a tanker!

what i believe is that the F-16s would carry out CAPs only in a war time situation...that would mean that in peace time they will fly regular sorties.....

i don't understand a money hungry airforce actually spending millions in getting a tanker! its not feasible IMO i think CFTs are the thing we should stick to and instead of spending millions on tankers spend it on acquiring other items!

 

[SBD-3]

I still think that PAF won't forget our f-16's for mid air refueling won't go unseen its just a matter of time something hits the pipeline!! i just wonder wat..

I think we should now build on our "own strength" I know China is not at par with US but it offers something that US would never offer.....ToT..... We can have occasional US articles for understanding but now....next target should be JF-Bl 2 and FC-20 manufacturing. We have good 18 Falcons to study and improve our wings.......Its about time we make our own flight...............sky is the limit
zindabad
painda baad

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i don't understand one thing....for 3 squadrons that we will use as our main "strike force" we will actually go buy a tanker!

what i believe is that the F-16s would carry out CAPs only in a war time situation...that would mean that in peace time they will fly regular sorties.....

i don't understand a money hungry airforce actually spending millions in getting a tanker! its not feasible IMO i think CFTs are the thing we should stick to and instead of spending millions on tankers spend it on acquiring other items!

refueling tanker means.
- PAF Fighters can quickly reach their destination more effectively without having to worry too much about fuel.
- without air refueling means the plane has to land to air base and waist crucial 30 mins or so to just refueling the plane which is prone to enemy attack.
- with the advantage of refuellers PAF fighters can go back and forth from north pakistan to east without landing and if necessary conduct AShW mission.

 

[ice_man]

refueling tanker means.
- PAF Fighters can quickly reach their destination more effectively without having to worry too much about fuel.
- without air refueling means the plane has to land to air base and waist crucial 30 mins or so to just refueling the plane which is prone to enemy attack.
- with the advantage of refuellers PAF fighters can go back and forth from north pakistan to east without landing and if necessary conduct AShW mission.

your point is valid however like i said we don't want to keep our F-16s up in the air unless absolutely necessary we need to use them sparingly! JF-17 will be our main work horse! besides F-16 Blk 52s range is 360 miles. Maximum ferry range 2450 miles with maximum external fuel (excluding 600gal. tanks or CFT's) .

that means we have enough fue to go to pathankot halwara & come back!!! and if i am not mistaken even a bombing mission over indian punjab is achievable....

so yes even though a refueller is useful! we can live without it! & spend money on acquring HAWKEYE 2D on our Orion platfroms for the naval air wing!

 

[hj786]

what i believe is that the F-16s would carry out CAPs only in a war time situation...

Here is how many air-to-air missiles the PAF has ordered for the F-16s:
- 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM
- 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder
Total = 700 missiles.

Here is how many air-to-ground weapons have been ordered:
- 800 MK-82 500 lb General Purpose (GP), MK-84 2,000 lb GP bombs;
- 700 BLU-109 2000 lb bunker-buster bombs with FMU-143 Fuse
- 500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;
- 1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;

I don't think large numbers of satellite-guided, laser-guided and bunker-busting bombs would be useful for "combat air patrols".

 

[ice_man]

Here is how many air-to-air missiles the PAF has ordered for the F-16s:
- 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM
- 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder
Total = 700 missiles.

Here is how many air-to-ground weapons have been ordered:
- 800 MK-82 500 lb General Purpose (GP), MK-84 2,000 lb GP bombs;
- 700 BLU-109 2000 lb bunker-buster bombs with FMU-143 Fuse
- 500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;
- 1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;

I don't think large numbers of satellite-guided, laser-guided and bunker-busting bombs would be useful for "combat air patrols".

thanks i know that.... what i meant is that instead of going for tankers we can spend on other systems NOT RELATED TO F-16s!! things such as HAWK EYE systems for our Orion fleet...i didnot mean lets spend on getting more armament for F-16 CAPs i don't know what made you interpret it that way....thanx

 

[Myth_buster_1]

thanks i know that.... what i meant is that instead of going for tankers we can spend on other systems NOT RELATED TO F-16s!! things such as HAWK EYE systems for our Orion fleet...i didnot mean lets spend on getting more armament for F-16 CAPs i don't know what made you interpret it that way....thanx

What you are suggesting is not even beneficiary for PAF at all because Hawkeye is a Naval platform and will be operated by PN and PAF is already inducting ZDK-03 and Erieye systems.
Btw F-16 role is not only limited to CAP their is alot more then that and with the addition of air refuellers it will massively increase loitering time in air giving F-16s advantage to operate beyond its limited range.

 

[Beskar]

HQ Image of PAF's BLK-52 F-16 undergoing trials

That Sniper-Pod's quite a beauty!

 

[Windjammer]

Guys, yous seems to have missed on creme de la creme,
The pilot in front seat is supporting a JHMCS (Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System)!