Pakistan shows who’s the boss

[karan.1970]

I would like to clarify just one more point due to your above statement. When I point out to any weaknesses about Pakistan I don't mean in a negative manner. If the whole world stop believing in Pakistan, I would still support and love Pakistan. It runs in my blood. But, for me, it does not mean to start making stupid arguements that have no relation with the real world. Pakistan can achieve its goals (whatever they are) with intelligent, educated, realistic and honest thinking + leadership.

It takes a lot of love for your country to accept its weaknesses. I for one dont correlate your pointing out weaknesses of Pakistan to your lack of affection towards Pakistan or your patriotism.

Its people who accept and fix the issues of their country are the true patriots and not people who have a habit of chest thumping no matter what..

 

[gubbi]

Pakistan has to keep its feet on the ground when dealing with US and NATO. The situation for Pakistan is very very serious from many different angles (security, politics, leadership, economy, law and order).

True that.

It is no secret now that US was behind Gen Zia's assasination. I fear for Kayani as well, if he crosses the line. He is (in the current situtation) a beacon of hope for Pakistan.

Didnt US stop this policy of assassinating people, overtly or covertly? Even operatives are held accountable if they indulge in such activities. Killing taliban/ AQ leaders is another cup of tea, theres a war going on. But then again, why the US? With Zia's support in Afghan war, would Russia have had a valid motive to kill him?

The problem with Pakistan is that individuals (like Kayani) rather than the system make the difference.

Doesnt this very system give rise to such individuals? IMHO, Pakistan lacks leaders with a good vision, either that or such leaders are not allowed to rise through the ranks - blame the mullah brigade and religious politics of Pakistan.

 

[Spring Onion]

what wrong with him he asked a valid question!

Vermilion which question he asked ?

 

[Spring Onion]

.

Didnt US stop this policy of assassinating people, overtly or covertly?

And you believe that ? Blackwater is infact white water right and many other such

Doesnt this very system give rise to such individuals? IMHO, Pakistan lacks leaders with a good vision, either that or such leaders are not allowed to rise through the ranks - blame the mullah brigade and religious politics of Pakistan.

This very system called voting aka demoncracy is a flawed one imposed on us where feudal rule so there is NO question of rise of the leaders who have vision

 

[Dil Pakistan]

True that.

Didnt US stop this policy of assassinating people, overtly or covertly? Even operatives are held accountable if they indulge in such activities. Killing taliban/ AQ leaders is another cup of tea, theres a war going on. But then again, why the US? With Zia's support in Afghan war, would Russia have had a valid motive to kill him?


Doesnt this very system give rise to such individuals? IMHO, Pakistan lacks leaders with a good vision, either that or such leaders are not allowed to rise through the ranks - blame the mullah brigade and religious politics of Pakistan.

On the issue whether Russia or US: There is a rule in the world of Criminology: If there is a crime and you cannot find the culprit then find the person who benefited from it. I think if we apply this rule to Zia's assasination and look at the next decade then Russia did not gain anything after Zia's assasination.

US stopped this policy of assasination!! who can stop them if they want to start again ? They say barking dogs don't bite. What if the dog stops barking and start biting (can you tell the dog that you are the one to bark, why are you biting !!).


Basically, there is no system. It is very rare that a good person like Kayani reaches to the top. Then suddenly he finds himself fighting on so many fronts. More likely, he gets beaten in the end.

 

[gubbi]

This very system called voting aka demoncracy is a flawed one imposed on us where feudal rule so there is NO question of rise of the leaders who have vision

Democracy was NOT imposed on Pakistan. I believe Jinnah said so in his speech to the first assembly in Pakistan! Your country men are being taken for a ride by the very people (feudal lords) you tend to call leaders.

Blackwater does not indulge in political assassinations. Its a private security firm which follows questionable methods.

 

[Leviza]

Democracy was NOT imposed on Pakistan. I believe Jinnah said so in his speech to the first assembly in Pakistan! Your country men are being taken for a ride by the very people (feudal lords) you tend to call leaders.

Blackwater does not indulge in political assassinations. Its a private security firm which follows questionable methods.

Yes Questionable methods

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Democracy was NOT imposed on Pakistan. I believe Jinnah said so in his speech to the first assembly in Pakistan! Your country men are being taken for a ride by the very people (feudal lords) you tend to call leaders.

Blackwater does not indulge in political assassinations. Its a private security firm which follows questionable methods.

Dear Gubbi, What Jana really meant was the SO CALLED democracy we have these days and this is the one imposed upon us (not the one that M A Jinnah dreamt off - we still dream of that type of democracy).

 

[mehru]

Many educated members can think what they like. A country like Pakistan (with economy on its knees, political turmoil every where, 2 million homeless with floods, corrupt structure of civil administration, corrupt leadership) should think of blocking supply of NATO and US !!!! The response from them will be breath taking. Take the example, further F-16 blocked, supply of arms blocked, money (which is so important) blocked, trade with EU blocked. And these just the non-military means, without breaking the sweat. Think if they put their aircraft carier in the Arabian sea and B-52 within the striking distance.

I dodn't understand which cukkoos land these educated members live in.

I agree with you. We have registered our complaint and we can only hope that sense will prevail.
@topic
No Pakistan doesn't hold the veto power. We are too much dependent on America. We can't cause them any damage. It's true that they are relying on us to help them but that doesn't mean that we hold the power. We hold the power as long as we are an ally.

 

[gubbi]

[/COLOR][/B]
On the issue whether Russia or US: There is a rule in the world of Criminology: If there is a crime and you cannot find the culprit then find the person who benefited from it. I think if we apply this rule to Zia's assasination and look at the next decade then Russia did not gain anything after Zia's assasination.

What if it was for revenge?

US stopped this policy of assasination!! who can stop them if they want to start again ? They say barking dogs don't bite. What if the dog stops barking and start biting (can you tell the dog that you are the one to bark, why are you biting !!).

I honestly dont know anything further on the topic other than what I have read. Such things usually come out in the open in a few years time.

Basically, there is no system. It is very rare that a good person like Kayani reaches to the top. Then suddenly he finds himself fighting on so many fronts. More likely, he gets beaten in the end.

I pray and hope not.

 

[Peregrine]

Well, Pakistan may not hold a VETO in Afghanistan but can pretty much influence anything even if it's a super power at work there.

 

[prototype]

so Pakistan is the boss,they can veto Obama's plan,eventually U.S apologized,but tell me 1 thing,did the drone attack's stopped?

 

[Dil Pakistan]

so Pakistan is the boss,they can veto Obama's plan,eventually U.S apologized,but tell me 1 thing,did the drone attack's stopped?[/QUOTE

Alex, I think you have not read the last 30 posts of this thread. The whole point we have been trying to make is that PAKISTAN IS NOT THE BOSS

 

[Peregrine]

so Pakistan is the boss,they can veto Obama's plan,eventually U.S apologized,but tell me 1 thing,did the drone attack's stopped?

You know the key question is.

Does the Pakistani military really want the drone attacks to be stopped?
I guess we all know the answer...A big NO. But in the time it want to be treated with respect from all sides; Public, NATO & Afghans.

 

[indiaworldpower]

No matter what you people say, one thing is very clear, US will initially try to persuade you to open the roads. If you dont agree then 100,000 US army stationed in Afganistan may be diverted towards your country.