Sikh, Pathan and Gurkha soldiers in the eyes of Winston S. Churchill

[Multani]

You need to study more. DI Khan, Tank and Lakki marwat were ruled by nawab of mankera so after his defeat these areas automatically went to sikhs. Ranjeet singh arrived with 25,000 soldiers along river kurram at lakki. Marwats sought refuge in hills along with their cattle, as they used to do it during large invasions. Bannu on that occasion was spared. But an army was sent to collect tribute next year. Sir edward writes that people of bannu are cowards so their villages were built forts for defence. Sikhs failed to collect tribute from them after seige of 450 fortified villages.
In tank they were busy looting and plundering villages, when they were suddenly invaded by neighbouring mehsuds. Sikhs were defeated and slaughtered. Sikhs never came to tank again but they did come to lakki on annual basis and made second attempt on bannu in which bannuchis sought help of wazirs and drove away sikhs. Sikhs stopped coming altogather after death of hari singh. They were able to truely establish their rule at hazara. But in peshawer region they were stopped at mardan and their khans and charsada khans agreed to pay tribute. Peshawer went to sikhs without any resistance in 1834 while at nowshera sikhs had to fight three large battles in one of which syed ahmad bareilwi also participated.

he reads most of his stuff from hindu, sikh, and orientalist books. Thats where he gets most of Potohar's history too.

But you seem to follow all sources.

 

[ghoul]

All this martial race is bs. The so called "Bengal Army" was full of people from the Gangetic plains, until they revolted in 1857, only after this did the Biritsh start to recruit from the North Western regions of India.

Not entirely bullshit. Though most of it is. Like a Scot is arguably a better soldier than a french on average isn't he?

 

[Progressive1]

That doesnt make any sense. Entire india is also opened for their sikh citizens and they are quite well represented in every field.

But you know about their religion like love for Punjab land and it is well documented they lost a lot post 1947. btw I was just joking with you all the time to extract some praise for Quaid.

 

[ghoul]

he reads most of his stuff from hindu, sikh, and orientalist books. Thats where he gets most of Potohar's history too.

But you seem to follow all sources.

I have never read a single Hindu book on Potohar. Lol. Is there a cure for your 24/7 PMS?

 

[Kataria]

All this martial race is bs. The so called "Bengal Army" was full of people from the Gangetic plains, until they revolted in 1857, only after this did the Biritsh start to recruit from the North Western regions of India.

Martial Race list from Wikipedia. I saw another list the other day on here and that one might beabricated as it included garhwalis, yadavs, etc.. who don't appear on this list Which one is right?

• Ahir
• Arain
• Awans
• Baluch
• Dogra
• Gujjar
• Janjua
• Jats
• Kamboj/Kamboh
• Kodava[17] [18]
• Khokhar
• Labana
• Mahton
• Pashtun
• Rajput
• Saini
• Gurkhas[19]
• Marathas[20]
• Nairs[21][22] (removed after rebelling)
• Reddys[23][24]
• Sikhs[25][26]
• Tanolis[27][28]

 

[Roybot]

Not entirely bullshit. Though most of it is. Like a Scot is arguably a better soldier than a french on average isn't he?

Based on what exactly? Physical prowess?

Martial Race list from Wikipedia. I saw another list the other day on here and that one might beabricated as it included garhwalis, yadavs, etc.. who don't appear on this list Which one is right?

• Ahir
• Arain
• Awans
• Baluch
• Dogra
• Gujjar
• Janjua
• Jats
• Kamboj/Kamboh
• Kodava[17] [18]
• Khokhar
• Labana
• Mahton
• Pashtun
• Rajput
• Saini
• Gurkhas[19]
• Marathas[20]
• Nairs[21][22] (removed after rebelling)
• Reddys[23][24]
• Sikhs[25][26]
• Tanolis[27][28]

Ahirs and Yadavs are the same aren't they?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Thats weird thing to say. Pashtuns didnt get pushed beyond khyber pass, they were there where they were before sikhs arrival. Sikhs were more interested in extracting tributes than ruling, that is what british have mentioned, that there was no presence of sikh rule beyond peshawer city. Sikhs occupied peshawer city in 1834 and were in the mood of conquering entire afghanistan. But hari singh nalwa got defeated and died at the hands of afridis when he attempted to conquer khyber. After his death sikhs lost all territories and were reduced to peshawer city. Inhabitants of peshawer were hindkowans and surrounding pashtun tribes were eager to take on well defended city of peshawer. Sir edward who arrived in bannu in 1839 writes that no sikh army has been sent to kohat, bannu and DI khan to extract tribute since death of hari singh nalwa. As you can see their rule was nominal and short-lived and couldnt conquer yousafzai country. It were british who truely conquered pashtuns, two third of us.

The British were more concerned abt the "great game" rather than the insurgency ...

Hari singh wasn't defeated in battle .. But died while he was visiting his troops .. After tht the British threat and so on ... Sikhs did have Muslims in their army .. Particularly their arty ... But most Moslems didn't join them ..

The mewatis (khanzada (their title).. After sidding with Rana sanga .. Along with lodhis .. Lost .. Their small state was snatched and later allied themself with the Mughals who gave them their title in short .. Weak Rajputs ...

Why Punjabi Arains are not beghairats like the rest of you kalay engrez, happy to serve under the british:

In anothe thread you owned sepoy Haider who fought against the japanese ..

 

[ghoul]

Based on what exactly? Physical prowess?

History, courage, mentality. Everything. The criteria for martial races was I think; 1) their lifestyle should be active and sporty in general rather than sedentary(i'e hunting etc). 2) their homeland should be hilly preferably 3) history of resistance 4) physique.

 

[Multani]

Oh you meant Rajputs. Were there any muslim Jats in Haryana, rajasthan or western UP?

yes, there were Muslims JaTTs.

 

[RazPaK]

The British were more concerned abt the "great game" rather than the insurgency ...

Hari singh wasn't defeated in battle .. But died while he was visiting his troops .. After tht the British threat and so on ... Sikhs did have Muslims in their army .. Particularly their arty ... But most Moslems didn't join them ..

The mewatis (khanzada (their title).. After sidding with Rana sanga .. Along with lodhis .. Lost .. Their small state was snatched and later allied themself with the Mughals who gave them their title in short .. Weak Rajputs ...


In anothe thread you owned sepoy Haider who fought against the japanese ..

Bravery and slavery are two different things. I appreciate the bravery of the soldiers that served under the British, but I don't respect them as much as I respect a Pak jawan. You should know me by now.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Sikhs used Fateh Khan Tiwana to collect taxes from D.I.Khan and Lakki. Fateh Khan was their enemy, and was involved in a number of court intrigues including the murder of a Sikh general. They used him for D.I.Khan because Nawab of Mankera had tried to betray him to the Sikhs, breaking his pashtunwali code(maybe he was a Seraiki pathan) and take over his land in Khushab and Bhakkar. When Fateh Khan was wanted for the murder of a Sikh general in Lahore, he sought asylum with the Wazir chief, who didn't hand him over to the Sikhs even after being offered heavy bribes and hence stayed true to his Pakhtun code.

And you're right about Sikh rule. They were more interested in taxing the Pakhtuns than subdueing them. Pakhtuns can't be subdued forever as their history teaches, so better to tax them. All invaders followed a similar policy including mughals. I'm not sure about a Wazir and Sikh clash.

And in Hazara, they made many garrisons but the local Tanolis couldn't be subdued by them. They also had clashes with the Hindko Tarins, and lost 3 commanders in process. These Hazarewal hillmen were great warriors and gave much trouble, but Sikhs called in Dogras who were the masters of hill warfare to beat back these hillmen. I think they defeated the Yousafzais in Swabi area in battle. Gulab Singh was the best general that Sikhs had. Hillmen of Azad Kashmir and Murree hills were also defeated by Gulab Singh.

You are right , tanolis, tarins, karrals, swatis, jadoons and mashwanis offered quite formidible resistance to sikhs while pashtuns of kohat, karak, lakki and DI khan simply melted away. One interesting battle occured at nara (haripur) where 8 thousands sikhs were ambushed by much smaller force of mashwanis and said khanis. Hari singh nalwa barely escaped with his life and sikhs suffered 500 casaulties. Even sikh sources admit this defeat. Rumour spread at that time among sikhs that hari singh got killed.
Though when hari singh recovered, he fell upon the area where he was defeated and put to sword the entire male population of that area.
Haripur people should rename their district.

 

[Kataria]

yes, there were Muslims JaTTs.

I know there are millions of Punjabi muslim Jatts but I was asking about muslim Jats from Haryana/Rajasthan/Western UP. I don't think there were but I might be wrong.

 

[kaykay]

honestly speaking then in this world of technology, martial race has little to do.

 

[syedali73]

You know the very purpose of this thread, don't you? To prove that certain race was/is better than others. Such racial threads must never be allowed as they do nothing positive. Those who are claiming racial superiority need to take it in their behind, and try to make the wasteland they hail from into at least a habitable place.

@Aeronaut

 

[Kataria]

Based on what exactly? Physical prowess?



Ahirs and Yadavs are the same aren't they?

I have no idea bro.