Soldiers don't hate soldiers.....

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Can someone explain me treatment meted to Saurabh Kalia without the word "hatred" ?

Indian Establishment propaganda to manipulate public sentiment against the 'enemy' during an ongoing conflict.

 

[PoKeMon]

Indian Establishment propaganda to manipulate public sentiment against the 'enemy' during an ongoing conflict.

Ok, though expected better than overly used denying tactic.

Anyways the topic is not one of the incident in isolation, but the statement "soldiers dont hate soldiers" which simply is travesty of facts written all over the history of barbaric war crimes.

Soldiers are humans as well and one among the society and glorifying them to a level of monk (with no hatred for enemy) is simply delusional. That's my point of contention.

 

[Icarus]

Can someone explain me treatment meted to Saurabh Kalia without the word "hatred" ?

As to why he was killed, he stumbled upon a covert op, probably resisted as any soldier worth his salt would do and was subsequently killed. Our sympathies with him and his family but like I said, we are soldier by profession and we will kill when mandated to do so in defence of the national interest.

However, at the same time, the Indian authorities used this opportunity to create the circumstances necessary to rile up the troops, get the public enraged and ready for conflict and get the international community behind them. Effective diplomacy.

You will now say that my story is mere conjecture and I have nothing to substantiate my argument that the late Captain was not subject to heinous torture tantamount to a war crime at the hands of the Pakistani troops against which I would propose for you to ponder over the fact as to why his father has exhausted all his efforts in taking the case to international courts and yet Indian authorities have consistently failed to produce the post mortem report that should carry ample evidence of torture ante-mortem?

That being said, I would appreciate if you not derail this thread any more. My patience wears thin.

 

[PoKeMon]

That being said, I would appreciate if you not derail this thread any more. My patience wears thin.

Derail? What is the topic in hand? Agreeing to what is posted in OP and not post counter opinion?

The history is fulled of heinous war crimes by "soldiers" on enemy soldiers, portraying them as monk will warrant a rebut.

I am out of this thread if you want to keep it as a monologue. Soldiers are not beyond question.

 

[Icarus]

Derail? What is the topic in hand? Agreeing to what is posted in OP and not post counter opinion?

The history is fulled of heinous war crimes by "soldiers" on enemy soldiers, portraying them as monk will warrant a rebut.

I am out of this thread if you want to keep it as a monologue. Soldiers are not beyond question.

The idea is not that soldiers are beyond question or that you cannot disagree with the Op but picking off one case and then sticking to it as the baseline for the entire argument hardly does the discussion justice.

 

[PoKeMon]

The idea is not that soldiers are beyond question or that you cannot disagree with the Op but picking off one case and then sticking to it as the baseline for the entire argument hardly does the discussion justice.

I will appreciate if you can show my post where I am vehemently sticking to an isolated case.

On contrary, in my response to Agnostic Muslim I stated -

"Anyways the topic is not one of the incident in isolation, but the statement "soldiers dont hate soldiers" which simply is travesty of facts written all over the history of barbaric war crimes."

Moreover I was neither biased when I said in my first post-

"Ohh really? As if we are not aware of war crimes and the barbaric treatment enemy soldiers give to our soldiers and vice versa."

Please note "vice versa" which is testimony to my acceptance of inhuman behaviour by all nationalities and not just particular one. To the same post, I was called Fu**ing moron and you could just mute the F word at best, keeping "moron" to be in full glory.

I can understand that the topic is sensitive to you for being an armyman. I have served for an year approx, my father is a retired army man. But then what is not true is not true.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Derail? What is the topic in hand? Agreeing to what is posted in OP and not post counter opinion?

The history is fulled of heinous war crimes by "soldiers" on enemy soldiers, portraying them as monk will warrant a rebut.

I am out of this thread if you want to keep it as a monologue. Soldiers are not beyond question.

Joe is saying soldiers dont hate soldiers. You are saying soldiers committed heinous crimes against soldiers. I will say its not right to paint all soldiers with one brush as entirely evil or entirely saint. Army is just like any other department where you have all sort of people in there thats why even professional armies display some worst examples of war crimes by going against ethical standard of army. Soldiers should respect other soldiers by following the rules of wars, treating wounded soldiers as your own, avoiding unnecessary killings and give all possible human rights to prisoner of wars or those troops who are willing to surrender. soldiers are not decision makers and dont join war for personal revenge even though its not easy to practice restraint and compassion after watching your friends or fellow soldiers killed in the heat of battle.You remember it was Indian soldiers who killed kernel sher Khan shaheed but at the same time recognised his bravery and recommended highest military award for him

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hiding behind the wording of laws are favourite past time of these anti nationals.

When someone says - "Hindustan ki barbadi tak, jang rahegi jari", I wont even bother to refer the law number to see how seditious the person is.

Complete the sentence.

Nor will the law even bother to see how you see things. Your opinion does not constitute the law. It only constitutes the toxic stock of hatred that passes for reasoning ability or for recognition of a social contract in what, again, passes for your mind.

Joe is saying soldiers dont hate soldiers. You are saying soldiers committed heinous crimes against soldiers. I will say its not right to paint all soldiers with one brush as entirely evil or entirely saint. Army is just like any other department where you have all sort of people in there thats why even professional armies display some worst examples of war crimes by going against ethical standard of army. Soldiers should respect other soldiers by following the rules of wars, treating wounded soldiers as your own, avoiding unnecessary killings and give all possible human rights to prisoner of wars or those troops who are willing to surrender. soldiers are not decision makers and dont join war for personal revenge even though its not easy to practice restraint and compassion after watching your friends or fellow soldiers killed in the heat of battle.You remember it was Indian soldiers who killed kernel sher Khan shaheed but at the same time recognised his bravery and recommended highest military award for him

An excellent example. And at one time - I have lost the list now, and do not wish to go back to it - I had counted a round dozen cases of such recommendations across the fighting lines.

So you jumped the gun and started beating the Dalit drum without checking the facts, great. For the sake of your students future I hope you are more thorough with the study material.


"My turn: When will you stop beating your wife?"

Considering you don't know me personally and how far off this question is to either topic at hand and you getting caught lying, the only conclusion I can draw is that it's an old man's attempt to quench his lust through some perverted fantasy. Unlike your students I don't have to think twice before refusing to indulge you in your unwarranted queries. You see I don't have to fear for my grades. The only thing you can do here is give a negative rating or go around asking Moderators to ban me for not answering your "CERTAIN" query.

Nobody beat the Dalit drum; these are facts as reported. The video footage showing that Kanhaiya and other JNU students shouted anti-national slogans was also a fact as reported, and is now proved false. There can be changes in the nature of what we assume in good faith to be true. As for my students and their reactions, you need only check. Unlike you, I do not skulk behind layers of anonymity.

Regarding my question, since you are obviously a mindless bully with no intelligence to detect the allusion, the question is an example of an unanwerable one, since it assumes that you do beat your wife. If you had an iota of intelligence, you would realise that the reference is not to your personal life or your sexual relations, but to your defective method of asking a question. So much for your old man's lust and perverted fantasy; it all amounts to a single, sad little fact - you are out of your depth and can only raise snide references from the sidelines.

I agree that you need not fear for your grades; they are irretrievably lost. With 20 negative ratings, what worse can happen to you? And what does it say about you, your quality of posting or your reputation here? Since you mention my students again and again, perhaps I should remind you of your sycophantic crawling to the moderators, to Waz and to WAJsal in particular, vowing not to be a troll. Nobody forced that on you. You crawled of your own heroic self.

 

[PoKeMon]

Joe is saying soldiers dont hate soldiers. You are saying soldiers committed heinous crimes against soldiers. I will say its not right to paint all soldiers with one brush as entirely evil or entirely saint. Army is just like any other department where you have all sort of people in there thats why even professional armies display some worst examples of war crimes by going against ethical standard of army. Soldiers should respect other soldiers by following the rules of wars, treating wounded soldiers as your own, avoiding unnecessary killings and give all possible human rights to prisoner of wars or those troops who are willing to surrender. soldiers are not decision makers and dont join war for personal revenge even though its not easy to practice restraint and compassion after watching your friends or fellow soldiers killed in the heat of battle.You remember it was Indian soldiers who killed kernel sher Khan shaheed but at the same time recognised his bravery and recommended highest military award for him

Mate, the sentence is as good as "Nazis dont hate jews", since there were many who were just fulfilling the order of their commander.

You have written a good "what to do" list, but my question is do they follow it in war? You will find great examples of how enemy lines respecting a soldier for his valour, but at the same time history is full of war crimes which only hatred could describe.

Professional and personal attitude are different. Most of them believe they are fighting for a right cause and enemy for evil.

Complete the sentence.

Nor will the law even bother to see how you see things. Your opinion does not constitute the law. It only constitutes the toxic stock of hatred that passes for reasoning ability or for recognition of a social contract in what, again, passes for your mind.

The opinion build the laws and if there are holes in law, the same opinions again will change the laws. It was not some holy text which tells us what is sedition, but it was otherwise, we wrote that text based on opinion.

Don't make a mistake of assuming laws absolute and unchangeable. People hiding behind "current" form of laws wont be having immunity .....for long.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mate, the sentence is as good as "Nazis dont hate jews", since there were many who were just fulfilling the order of their commander.

You have written a good "what to do" list, but my question is do they follow it in war? You will find great examples of how enemy lines respecting a soldier for his valour, but at the same time history is full of war crimes which only hatred could describe.

Professional and personal attitude are different. Most of them believe they are fighting for a right cause and enemy for evil.



The opinion build the laws and if there are holes in law, the same opinions again will change the laws. It was not some holy text which tells us what is sedition, but it was otherwise, we wrote that text based on opinion.

Don't make a mistake of assuming laws absolute and unchangeable. People hiding behind "current" form of laws wont be having immunity .....for long.

The logic escapes me. As long as the law is what it is, that is what will be administered, here and now, today. Speculation on what it should have been, could have been, might be, might not be, and must be are just that, speculation. There's no tax on speculation, so go on.

 

[PoKeMon]

The logic escapes me. As long as the law is what it is, that is what will be administered, here and now, today. Speculation on what it should have been, could have been, might be, might not be, and must be are just that, speculation. There's no tax on speculation, so go on.

Yep hearing you, a juvenile must go on and have another Nirbhaya. The laws are never perfect and we always have rats to bear the fruit of these imperfections. But rats are rats, weak law does make them lion, for a while though.

And the forum is no platform to check laws, courts are. Neither a ground on JNU. People are arrested , if arrest are against law, go to court and fight your case.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yep hearing you, a juvenile must go on and have another Nirbhaya. The laws are never perfect and we always have rats to bear the fruit of these imperfections. But rats are rats, weak law does make them lion, for a while though.

And the forum is no platform to check laws, courts are. Neither a ground on JNU. People are arrested , if arrest are against law, go to court and fight your case.

That is truly perverse; it was not the absence of a law to prosecute juveniles that caused the attack by a juvenile on Nirbhaya, if that is your argument. At best you can argue that after the crime, the punishment should be on par with adults for certain defined crimes.

You are quite right in saying that the forum is no platform to check laws, and the courts are. So why are you arguing for their guilt before even the matter has come to court? Also, are you in denial of the fact that arrests in India are selective, and are no indicator of the reality of the situation? Would you like some reminders? The cases of criminal negligence and manslaughter of Salman Khan and Varma in Delhi, for instance? The inability to arrest the criminals who dressed as lawyers and assaulted people in full view of the police, to name another? If there is selective arrest, what is the value of your suggestion to go to court and fight your case?

 

[doppelganger]

I agree with @third eye completely here.

I puke on the turds of JNU. Of Jadavpur.

I puke on the premise that they consider themselves to be the Berkley of India.

I come from India's second ranked Medical school.

I have never needed to spew crap about the nation that made me what I am, that birthed me, that nurtured me, to be considered an intellectual.

I puke on these turds.

And I salute the lawyers who had the strength of indignation to whack them when the opportunity presented itself.

As whack them I and my batchmates will, when and where we get the chance.

Bastard deshdrohis.

@Joe Shearer

Two words.

Ishrat Jahan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I agree with @third eye completely here.

I puke on the turds of JNU. Of Jadavpur.

I puke on the premise that they consider themselves to be the Berkley of India.

I come from India's second ranked Medical school.

I have never needed to spew crap about the nation that made me what I am, that birthed me, that nurtured me, to be considered an intellectual.

I puke on these turds.

And I salute the lawyers who had the strength of indignation to whack them when the opportunity presented itself.

As whack them I and my batchmates will, when and where we get the chance.

Bastard deshdrohis.

@Joe Shearer

Two words.

Ishrat Jahan.

What about Ishrat Jahan? I agree with you that it's two words. Anything further?

 

[doppelganger]

What about Ishrat Jahan? I agree with you that it's two words. Anything further?

I'm lazy. And digging is strenuous work.

But I am loving it.

Just looking forward to someone whacking that 28 year old "student"