Swedish Gripen upbeat on India's combat jet order

[Adux]

 

[Bull]

I dont have any problems with that list, except that it will be a NIGHTMARE to run in terms of logistics. Minimize platforms. I'd rather have had the govt sell of the MiG 29's and 50 more MiG 35's. F/A-18 would require another line setup for maintenance, etc, etc. Its not feasible. What IAF should be trying to do in the long run is cutting down on different types of platforms so that things are easier for them.

Harrier is passe.

MiG 29K and F/A-18E/F would indeed be a verry good combination for the Navy.

I think we would have to totally do away with F-18, it just adds on to the misery. 60 odd Mig 29K thats 12 + 48 already in order is good enough along with the Harries which are being upgraded to Dash 5 standard.

 

[Contrarian]

Yes, we know its a good platform with an excellent a2g munition range.

 

[Adux]

F/A - 18 E/F super hornet

Primary Function: Multi-role attack and fighter aircraft
Contractor: McDonnell Douglas
Crew: E model: One; F model: Two
Unit Cost: $57 million
Powerplant
Two F414-GE-400 turbofan engines rated at 22,000 lb (9,977 kg) static thrust each
Dimensions
Length: 60.3 feet (18.5 meters)
Wingspan: 44.9 feet (13.68 meters)
Height: 16 feet (4.87 meters)
Weights
Empty: N/A
Max. TOW: 66,000 pounds (29,932 kg)
Performance
Speed: Mach 1.8+
Ceiling: 50,000+ feet
Range: Combat: 1,275 nautical miles (2,346 kilometers), clean plus two AIM-9s
Armament
One M61A1/A2 Vulcan 20mm cannon; External payload: AIM 9 Sidewinder, AIM-9X (projected), AIM 7 Sparrow, AIM-120 AMRAAM, Harpoon, Harm, SLAM, SLAM-ER (projected), Maverick missiles; Joint Stand-Off Weapon (JSOW); Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM); Data Link Pod; Paveway Laser Guided Bomb; various general purpose bombs, mines and rockets.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-18ef.htm

 

[Adux]

I am going for the Harrier, So that it can land and take off from the LPD's, Close air support role, for our Marine invasion force, I believe our Navy is slowly taking the lead role and will be modelled around the USN, After the RN, the USN is the most successful NAvy

 

[Adux]

Specifications Mig 35


General characteristics
Unit Cost : $70 million
Crew: One
Length: 62 ft 4 in (19 m)
Wingspan: 49 ft 10 in (15.2 m)
Height: ()
Empty weight: 33,069 lb (15,000 kg)
Loaded weight: 76,059 lb (34,500 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Klimov RD-33 OVT afterburning turbofans, 18,285 lbf (8,300 kgf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 1,521 mph (2,448 km/h)
Range: 2,485 mi (4,000 km)
Service ceiling: 62,000 ft (18,900 m)
Rate of climb: 60,000 ft/min (~300 m/s)
Armament
1x 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
Eight Missiles (Details to be confirmed)
Up to 2000 lbs of bombs (Details to be confirmed)
Avionics
Phazotron N-109 [[radar] [Zhuk AE]]

 

[Adux]

 

[Contrarian]

Yeah, and it says that MiG 35 got almost twice the range of F-18.
In any case, i hope you agree now that MiG 35 can and will match or exceed F-18 on every aspect. We'd be foolish not to get it.

 

[Adux]

malay i was going to correct it, That is with the 3 drop tanks,
Without Drop tanks Mig-35 has a range of 2000 kms opposed to 2400 of SuperHornet

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67535

 

[Contrarian]

You tell me if that is 'one hell of a difference' ??
MiG 35 any day, We also need to buy equiment on threat perception.
As of now MiG 35 is far above the F-16 blk 52's. PAF has no plans to get anything superior to its F-16 blk 52's any time soon. You tell me why we need F/A-18E/F. Especially when im contending that MiG 35 is better than F-18.

 

[Adux]

Malay,

You didnt get me right, I am looking at superior A2G not even A2A and superior range and Uptime. F/A 18 has a lower frontal RCS than Mig- 35 These are the elements of a superior strike platform. I am not looking at Pakistan, but China

 

[Contrarian]

Adux, mate, the RCS of MiG 35 is not known as of now. It does not use the same body as MiG 29. Its different. More aerodynamically efficient and has a lower RCS. The Russians have claimed that MiG 35's RCS when compared to MiG 29 is less by around 5 or 6 times. Ofcourse this also depends on the armament being carried on the plane at the time, but still. I am inclined to say that MiG 35's RCS would indeed be very less.

Let us not consider range. 400 km's extra is not something to crow about as being very superior.

But indeed, a2g of F-18 is superior.But that does not mean its inferior for the MiG 35. Do you get my line of thinking? MiG 35 has an above avage a2g. 11 hardpoints. not at all bad mate.
Now tell me, is it worth buying F-18 JUST for a2g and RCS(which is not confirmed, MiG 35 can have an equally low RCS). An entire different logisitcs line would have to be established, a different platform, training time etc etc. These things at times matter more than the plane itself.

 

[Adux]

Actually that range is, it is 20% or little less increase in range,it changes planning when we are talking about china. I dont see any design line changes in MiG 35, A2G is important, since we are looking for a strike aircraft not an air superiority fighter, Russian A2G weapons dont have a storm shadow, JDAM, HARM, Bunker busters and the likes, American A2G is more than impressive. Russians-Migs dont have a reputation for life cycle cost management, While American jet have the best life cycle life management,Most important factor for a jet, The number of man hours needed to very flight hour

 

[blain2]

You tell me if that is 'one hell of a difference' ??
MiG 35 any day, We also need to buy equiment on threat perception.
As of now MiG 35 is far above the F-16 blk 52's. PAF has no plans to get anything superior to its F-16 blk 52's any time soon. You tell me why we need F/A-18E/F. Especially when im contending that MiG 35 is better than F-18.

Is PAF the only concern here? If so then why not just stick with MKIs and M2Ks??

And now just to further the discussion, how is Mig-35 far above F-16 blk52 (even though we have compared many of the related capabilities on the MKI with those on the F-16s and found them each to have their pros and cons)? Is it just because the Mig-35 has TVCs and slated to get AESA?? Each aircraft like the blk52, SH and Mig-35 have their strengths and weaknesses..F-16 can carry more A2G ordnance than the Mig-35 as per below which shows 2K lbs on the Mig-35 (F-16 can carry two 2K JDAMs along with other munitions). F-16 has very comparable avionics, F-16 has a better engine (higher MTBF and MTBO), F-16 has a much larger array of weaponry integrated to it. These issues cannot be overlooked.

Also the price quoted for Mig-35 seems to be wrong. You are not going to pay $70 million per ac for a Russian origin aircraft just yet. I believe the support/weapons cost is included in that price. SH on the other hand has a fly away cost exceeding $65 million but that is just for the aircraft iirc.

 

[Adux]

Blain2,

If you are looking for a strike platform, dont you think A2G is the most important aspect along with range and very importantly uptime and weapons Load. I seriously think Mig-35 is too close to Su-30MKI role same way Gripen is to the LCA. F/A 18 EF is the right choice.
I got the price of MIg-35 from a russian website.



f/a 18 Superhornet
Armament
One 20mm MK-61A1 Vulcan cannon, AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-7 Sparrow, AIM-120 AMRAAM, Harpoon, HARM, Strike, SLAM, SLAM-ER, Walleye, Maverick missiles, Joint Stand-Off Weapon (JSOW), Joint Direct Attack/Munition (JDAM), and various general purpose bombs, mines, and rockets


malay,

Shornet is by far superior in A2G role, I rather have Su's flying cover for our Strike platforms, Imagine this how many Migs do we to the lets say x number of hornet need for a strike mission which requires payload and range.
There is no way Russian electronics can jump to the US level, i am sorry as much as I like my russian friends, The difference are huge esp in between Russian and US avionics, jammers, A2G armaments, AESA is already deployed in the USN and they will for sure have superior software and hardware.

If we are looking at a strike platform to absorb technology which was denied to us before, then MiGs are not the way, if it is Air Superiority then they are the best choicem but we already have the Sukhoi-30MKI.....