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The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

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Al Beruni lived in the 10th century, Brahmagupta lived in the 6th century. So again this is not the ultimate reference. It's one reference however, and it does not say where he was born - we've established this was in Multan, he only worked in Bhillamala, which we know may have been somewhere between Multan and another place. It's not important, he was born and raised in Multan.

Now, the references by Strasbourg University and Wisconsin University are clear in that he was born in Multan.

However Brahmagupta was not the discoverer of the number zero - that would have to go to the Mahayanists and Panini/Pingula.

Are you kidding me? Its the oldest reference after his own work, and unless you've got something better, that reference supercedes all the university websites in the world.

Even then, most universities state that he was born in Bhinmal, barring a couple which you have quoted.

Really, unless you've got something better for us, its time to accept defeat.
 
Depends upon if the debate shoudl be limited to "discussing the invention of the modern zero as a numerical digit in the decimal system. "

This then would undoubtedly be an Ancient Pakistani discovery, since this would have been well into the age of Panini, Pingala and the Mahayanists.
 
Even then, most universities state that he was born in Bhinmal, barring a couple which you have quoted.

This is not true. And it can be seen in the posts so far, excluding Hindutva influenced Indian universities of course.
 
This is then summed up in our highly credible MSNEncarta reference

"So you can see that when no beads have been moved, you need a symbol to represent “0". This symbol is very important, in order to show that this is the number 15730 and not the much smaller number 1573. It was probably in using an abacus that the Hindus of the Indus valley in today’s Pakistan first invented zero.
From Zero to Hero - MSN Encarta

Your saying its "highly credible" does not make it highly credible, and infact, its not. If I had use that reference, you would have never accepted it.

I remember that you accused the BBC of supporting "Hindutva groups". After that episode, you have absolutely no right to use ANY reference other than a strictly academic one, or an original ancient document.

and as far as the history of zero is concerned, I have already explained it. here is it:

History of the Zero:

What is certain is that by around 650AD the use of zero as a number came into Indian mathematics. The Indians also used a place-value system and zero was used to denote an empty place. In fact there is evidence of an empty place holder in positional numbers from as early as 200AD in India but some historians dismiss these as later forgeries. Let us examine this latter use first since it continues the development described above.

In around 500AD Aryabhata devised a number system which has no zero yet was a positional system. He used the word "kha" for position and it would be used later as the name for zero. There is evidence that a dot had been used in earlier Indian manuscripts to denote an empty place in positional notation. It is interesting that the same documents sometimes also used a dot to denote an unknown where we might use x. Later Indian mathematicians had names for zero in positional numbers yet had no symbol for it. The first record of the Indian use of zero which is dated and agreed by all to be genuine was written in 876.

We have an inscription on a stone tablet which contains a date which translates to 876. The inscription concerns the town of Gwalior, 400 km south of Delhi, where they planted a garden 187 by 270 hastas which would produce enough flowers to allow 50 garlands per day to be given to the local temple. Both of the numbers 270 and 50 are denoted almost as they appear today although the 0 is smaller and slightly raised.

We now come to considering the first appearance of zero as a number.
Let us first note that it is not in any sense a natural candidate for a number. From early times numbers are words which refer to collections of objects. Certainly the idea of number became more and more abstract and this abstraction then makes possible the consideration of zero and negative numbers which do not arise as properties of collections of objects. Of course the problem which arises when one tries to consider zero and negatives as numbers is how they interact in regard to the operations of arithmetic, addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. In three important books the Indian mathematicians Brahmagupta, Mahavira and Bhaskara tried to answer these questions.

Brahmagupta attempted to give the rules for arithmetic involving zero and negative numbers in the seventh century. He explained that given a number then if you subtract it from itself you obtain zero. He gave the following rules for addition which involve zero:-

The sum of zero and a negative number is negative, the sum of a positive number and zero is positive, the sum of zero and zero is zero.

Subtraction is a little harder:-

A negative number subtracted from zero is positive, a positive number subtracted from zero is negative, zero subtracted from a negative number is negative, zero subtracted from a positive number is positive, zero subtracted from zero is zero.

Brahmagupta then says that any number when multiplied by zero is zero but struggles when it comes to division:-

A positive or negative number when divided by zero is a fraction with the zero as denominator. Zero divided by a negative or positive number is either zero or is expressed as a fraction with zero as numerator and the finite quantity as denominator. Zero divided by zero is zero.

Really Brahmagupta is saying very little when he suggests that n divided by zero is n/0. Clearly he is struggling here. He is certainly wrong when he then claims that zero divided by zero is zero. However it is a brilliant attempt from the first person that we know who tried to extend arithmetic to negative numbers and zero.

In 830, around 200 years after Brahmagupta wrote his masterpiece, Mahavira wrote Ganita Sara Samgraha which was designed as an updating of Brahmagupta's book. He correctly states that:-

... a number multiplied by zero is zero, and a number remains the same when zero is subtracted from it.

However his attempts to improve on Brahmagupta's statements on dividing by zero seem to lead him into error. He writes:-

A number remains unchanged when divided by zero.

Since this is clearly incorrect my use of the words "seem to lead him into error" might be seen as confusing. The reason for this phrase is that some commentators on Mahavira have tried to find excuses for his incorrect statement.

Bhaskara wrote over 500 years after Brahmagupta. Despite the passage of time he is still struggling to explain division by zero. He writes:-

A quantity divided by zero becomes a fraction the denominator of which is zero. This fraction is termed an infinite quantity. In this quantity consisting of that which has zero for its divisor, there is no alteration, though many may be inserted or extracted; as no change takes place in the infinite and immutable God when worlds are created or destroyed, though numerous orders of beings are absorbed or put forth.

So Bhaskara tried to solve the problem by writing n/0 = ∞. At first sight we might be tempted to believe that Bhaskara has it correct, but of course he does not. If this were true then 0 times ∞ must be equal to every number n, so all numbers are equal. The Indian mathematicians could not bring themselves to the point of admitting that one could not divide by zero. Bhaskara did correctly state other properties of zero, however, such as 02 = 0, and √0 = 0.

______________________________
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Brahmagupta.html
 
This is not true. And it can be seen in the posts so far, excluding Hindutva influenced Indian universities of course.

What's wrong with you? Do you want me to pile up a stack of university references for your pleasure? I'm not going to do that. Google it yourself, compare the number of references.

In any case, his place of birth has been established. Now lets move on to the next chaper where you try to minimise his achievements and maximise Pingala's and Paninis, and later claim that the zero was actually invented by the Harappans. :lol:
MOD EDIT: Read forum rules as to why this would be unacceptable ;)
 
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You've not listed a single neutral university that says Brahmagupta was born outside of Multan.

The only one you've listed, St Andrew's University says he was possibly born in Ujjain (sindh?). Well, possibly is of no merit versus my Strasbourg and Wisconsin references.

And I don't know where you got the idea I accused the BBC of being part of the Hindutva group. You must be confused, a little like your knowledge of history of the number zero!

The St Andrew's link is alright, but it doesn't go back far enough. Take this University of Iowa link, clearly linking the concept of zero to the Mahayans of the Indus Valley, or Ancient Pakistan, where Panini, the Ancient Pakistani grammarian lived.

To this the early Mahayanists added the post-Paranirvana development of shunya, that can be traced in Panini’s fourth-century BCE use of it, as an emptiness that is pregnant due to its situation in relation to another concept, like the potential of a term to have a suffix, even when it doesn’t have one. Which was followed slightly-later, by the mathematicians adoption of this same shunya as the zero, place holder, in their creation of the decimal system.
Lecture 8

Now Pingala, the Ancient Pakistani further used the word Shunya to represent zero in his treatizes, and Brahmagupta, the Ancient Pakistani, came along and formulated some rules for the number zero.
 
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Ujjain is in Madhya Pradesh, not Sindh.

Again, unless you can produce a historical document which disproves the one written by Alberuni, that debate is over.

Stop obfuscating, and take the debate forward. Don't act like an stubborn kid.
 
calm down ya'll - There is a strong difference in opinions here.
 
RR, if you want to debate seriously, then read my posts and refute the points that have been made in them.

Simply ignoring the portions of posts which you cannot reply to, and refuting a peripheral point rather than the main one, is a rather old internet trick which everybody can see through.
 
Pāṇini (IAST: Pāṇini, Dēvanāgarī: पाणिनि; a patronymic meaning "descendant of Paṇi") was an Ancient Indian Sanskrit grammarian from Pushkalavati, Gandhara (fl. 4th century BCE[1][2]).

He is known for his Sanskrit grammar, particularly for his formulation of the 3,959 rules[2] of Sanskrit morphology in the grammar known as Ashtadhyayi (meaning "eight chapters"), the foundational text of the grammatical branch of the Vedanga, the auxiliary scholarly disciplines of Vedic religion.

The Ashtadhyayi is one of the earliest known grammars of Sanskrit, although he refers to previous texts like the Unadisutra, Dhatupatha, and Ganapatha.[2] It is the earliest known work on descriptive linguistics, generative linguistics, and together with the work of his immediate predecessors (Nirukta, Nighantu, Pratishakyas) stands at the beginning of the history of linguistics itself.

Pāṇini's comprehensive and scientific theory of grammar is conventionally taken to mark the end of the period of Vedic Sanskrit, by definition introducing Classical Sanskrit.

On Monday, August 30, 2004, the Department of Posts of the Government of India, released a Rs. 5 postage stamp to honor Pāṇini.

That makes him an 100% certified Indian.
 
Pushkalavati is an ancient site situated in Peshawar valley in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. It is located on the banks of Swat River, near its junction with Kabul River, now it is known as Charsadda. Pushkalavati meaning Lotus City was the capital of ancient kingdom Gandhara from the 6th century BC to 2nd century AD.

I think this makes him 100 % Certified Pakistani.
:cheers:
 
Now I shall present my third academic research paper confirming that Brahmagupta was born in Multan, and was belonging to the Multan area of Ancient Pakistan.

From an Italian academic this time of the ABQ Project:

Indians became adept mathematicians around 3000BC, but only the usage of zero became well known around the 6th century when Brahmagupta of Multan formulated rules of operation usig it. For 400 years from the 6th century, India was foremost in maths, and zero began its journey around the world. With the rise of trade among Arabs, Greeks and Indians, caravans carried more than goods to China, Arabia and Greece.
http://www.ooffouro.org/ita/RESEARCH/ABQ/OOFFOURO_ABQ - ResearchArea.pdf

Three strong references so far confirming that Brahmagupta was an Ancient Pakistani.

Zero, (how ironic), references confirming Brahmagupta was born in India or of of modern day India, aside from one hazy reference to Al Beruni, a noted hater of Brahamgupta, and someone who lived 5 centuries after Brahmagupta had died! Something sounds fishy about the Al Beruni reference, I'd like to see the original, I feel the translation may be Hindutva influenced, since all three credible, neutral academic references have stated clearly that Brahmagupta was born in Multan, and of Multan, Ancient Pakistan.

It's also very clear Panini was an Ancient Pakistani. Thanks Vinod2070 for proving this.
 
"The eminent Multan-born Indian mathematician Brahmagupta (598 A.D. - 660A.D.) went on to give the rules of operation of zero in his treatise Brahmasphutasiddhanta as though zero were any other number. Today, his rules may sound trivial, but imagine their significance when zero was ‘nothing’ in the rest of the world."
http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/numeracy.pdf

Clearly another reference, though not as strong as the neutral scholarly references I presented before.

It's fairly safe to conclude Brahmagupta had strong ties with Multan, Ancient Pakistan.
 
Wrong. It make him 100% Ancient Indian.

And that's the fact, unless you give a few amateur Pakistani websites more credit than they deserve.

If we look at real facts, It makes him 100% Gandharan. Which is Ancient Pakistani.
 
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