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The Undercover Indian:We need Toilets not Temples - Why are we dirty people?

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Chinapak

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From the undercoverindian.com:

"Mark Twain once said about India that anything that can be done by man or God, has been done in this land . In one of discussions on India Poised, Jaggi Vasudev said an interesting thing that "in all the talk (in India) about divinity and gretness of country we have forgotten about humanity. At every street corner we have built temples not toilets. A pee is more important than a prayer. It is certainly more compelling than a prayer".

We Indians are perhaps dirtiest people in world. Our cities look like extended slums, towns are ****** dumps and villages often reek of excreta. It is said that poverty breeds ***** and it could be true. But in our country there is another problem. The problem in head. The problem of mindset and problem of habit and perhaps culture. We just dont want to live in clean places. I have seen many and I really mean many well educated, well read and well traveled people who just don’t think for a moment before littering in public places. Right outside my office, employees of at least 3 IT companies in vicinity can be seen smoking and having tea in plastic cups which they throw right there on road after they are finished. There is no dustbin there but it doesn't occur to any of them to take the empty cup back to office and throw in bin.

In "Area of Darkness" V.S. Naipaul gives an extremely dark account of India and details how dirty the country was. As a foreigner of Indian roots (his father migrated to Africa and Naipaul studied in London) Naipaul was shocked to see how dirty people in his "homeland” were. His account of India (in decades of 60 and 70s) was deeply pessimistic and I would say he was right on many fronts. Naipaul in his books writes that elsewhere in world approach to villages through countryside is a pleasant experience but not in India where visitor to villages is welcomed by smell of human excreta. He observed it in decades of 70s but it could be still true in most of villages in India. In my own village, an empty ground just outside the village was used as an open, defecation area till around few years back. It is only in recent years that villagers started building toilets in their houses (but then Himachal is comparatively far more progressive state than most of other states). Around 80% of diseases in our country are caused by drinking water contaminated by human waste. Less than 30% of India's population have toilets in their homes. Many projects undertaken to provide clean toilets in villages have failed because villagers could not take to new habit of using toilets within their homes and they promptly converted their toilets into storage rooms. Considering population growth, it is estimated that it would take 200 years for every Indian to have access to a toilet. India is also perhaps only country in world where defecating is also a social activity. One just needs to sit beside the window during early morning train journey to see hordes of men and women defecating in groups along the rail road. Even in large cities, one can see people defecating and chatting at the same time right beside a busy road (I see that every day while traveling to office). I sometime wonder what those guys talk while indulging in an activity which I thought need some silence and privacy. Even dog after defecating buries its waste under sand but not these people. They never clean their own waste. We never clean our own waste.


It is worth noting that we were not always like this. It is ironical that in around 3000 BC (or was it 1500 BC!!) in Harappa and Mohanjodaro there were towns many hundred miles away from each other but built in similar grid fashion with immaculate streets and sophisticated drainage system for those times. Those people were perhaps one of first town planners and theylived right here on our own land. How did we forget that art? We are in year 2007 AD and have a look at our towns now and look at the wasted state our waste management systems are. Al-Jahiz 9th century Muslim historian writes: "The Hindus excel in astrology, mathematics, medicine and in various other sciences. They have developed to perfection arts like sculpture, painting, and architecture. They have collections of poetry, philosophy, literature and science of morals. From India we received the book called Kalilah wa Dimnah. These people have judgment and are brave. They posses the virtues of cleanliness and purity. Contemplation has originated with them." Abdullah Wassaf, writing in the 14th century A.D. says of India in his history book, Tazjiyatul Amsar: " India, according to the concurrent opinion of all writers, is the most agreeable abode on earth and the most pleasant quarter of the world. Its dust is purer than air and its air is purer than purity itself: Its delightful plains resemble the garden of paradise.

So what went wrong? Why are we so dirty now? One is tempted to say that it is because of our bloated population and unending poverty or some might say it is becuase we were enslaved (ha ha)!!. Yes they are some of reasons but I think we have a bigger cultural problem as the cause. In a self induced illusion of greatness of Indian civilization, we never see apparent things. We are so taken in by our self belief in our own greatness that we don’t introspect and don’t think that there could be anything wrong with us. It is utterly shocking that in a country where Gods rules every minute of existence for most of people, our religious places are often dirty. Our religion had always emphasized importance of spirit over matter. Inner beauty over outer physical appearance. It proclaimed that world we see is a "maya" or illusion and aim of human life is to rise above it and attain salvation. The world we see is temporary and we should not be attached to it. I think somewhere deeper in an Indian’s consciousness, it is this metaphysical idea of life that rules and which makes him to neglect his outer world. As such there is nothing wrong with this notion of spirit over matter but not many people care, understand or are equipped to understand its deeper meaning. And then the atrocious Caste system which is like a blot on our culture, was so corrupted over centuries that cleaning as a task became function of a lesser caste. Brahmins and upper caste considered it impure to clean. Tasks in society were structured in hierarchy with menial tasks, considered low, assigned to lower classes. This mentality of considering menial tasks as lower than other tasks is still wide spread in our country). Anybody who is student of Indian culture soon discovers that this is a land of some of most contrasting and amazing paradoxes. Even in context of cleanliness, it is surprising to know that in Hindu tradition cleanliness is considered extremely important but tasks of cleaning is not and is considered impure. How strange is that!! How can we be clean if act of cleaning is considered lower and impure task? And some of our ideas about impurity are equally ludicrous. For example, in many temples in our country, women while menstruating are not allowed inside since they are considered unclean and impure. Obviously it was an idea propagated by male dominated, Brahmins ruled society. Gandhi during freedom movement had understood this and he made attempts to make people realize importance of cleanliness. He cleaned his own toilet and encouraged upper caste people in his ashram to clean toilets. “It filled me with agony to see people performing natural functions on the thoroughfares and river banks, when they could easily have gone a little farther away from public haunts," Gandhi wrote in his autobiography of a 1915 visit to the Ganges River. It was corruption of Brahmincal Hinduism and rigidity of caste system during later years of our civilization that changed attitudes and practices around disposal of human waste in specific and cleanliness in general. It is this cultural mindset which is at bottom of causes of our unclean, dirty habits.

It takes many many years to change habits when they originate from deeper cultural causes. A person who is highly educated might not defecate in open but he would not find it wrong to litter at public places since after all cleaning is not his function but somebody else’s. Coupled with poorest civic sense that we Indians have, one can see why our cities, towns and villages are so dirty. Makes me wonder why we have such poor civic sense?"
 
Some problems are also in Pakistan too.......

Like written above
The problem of mindset and problem of habit and perhaps culture. We just dont want to live in clean places. I have seen many and I really mean many well educated, well read and well traveled people who just don’t think for a moment before littering in public places. Right outside my office, employees of at least 3 IT companies in vicinity can be seen smoking and having tea in plastic cups which they throw right there on road after they are finished. There is no dustbin there but it doesn't occur to any of them to take the empty cup back to office and throw in bin.

This is due to low literacy rate and peoples mind set, even if somebody wants to do right thing people joke on him...
For example when i go to Pakistan and i take my Seat belt while driving any of my friend sitting besides me look at me with wonder that what i am doing.. As peoples don't have habit to do these things.
 
Some problems are also in Pakistan too.......

Like written above
The problem of mindset and problem of habit and perhaps culture. We just dont want to live in clean places. I have seen many and I really mean many well educated, well read and well traveled people who just don’t think for a moment before littering in public places. Right outside my office, employees of at least 3 IT companies in vicinity can be seen smoking and having tea in plastic cups which they throw right there on road after they are finished. There is no dustbin there but it doesn't occur to any of them to take the empty cup back to office and throw in bin.

This is due to low literacy rate and peoples mind set, even if somebody wants to do right thing people joke on him...
For example when i go to Pakistan and i take my Seat belt while driving any of my friend sitting besides me look at me with wonder that what i am doing.. As peoples don't have habit to do these things.

Everybody wants to live in clean places if they have the resources simple as that.


As far as some habits yes there are these problems with us desis from India and Pakistan we love to see our own place and street clean but we dont hesitate to throw the empty bottles, wrappers and other such waste on roads and streets.

This must be changed.

BTW i am one of the proud people who dont throw any such thing on road and always put it in my bag till i find some dustbin to put it in.


lets join hands and stop throwing waste on roads and streets
 
Being a tropical country we invite more infections if we dont keep ourselves and our surroundings sufficiently clean........Cleanliness helps reduce our dependence on medicines....
 
Sir also give the credit line so that the readers should know who says so :) and how much Islam stresses for cleanliness

I thought the italicized quote is from so famous a source so as not to need credit.

Nice quote..who said that?

This is a saying of Muhammad (PBUH), and an integral part of Islam.

This is also the inspiration of some of the greatest architrectural wonders in the world created by Muslims, with clever engineering to provide plenty of running water and sanitation.
 
The italicized quote is from so famous a source so as not to need credit. I think it is self-evident, but I will point out the source if people here truly do not know it. :grin:

there u are :agree:
 
I thought the italicized quote is from so famous a source so as not to need credit.



This is a saying of Muhammad (PBUH), and an integral part of Islam.

This is also the inspiration of some of the greatest architrectural wonders in the world created by Muslims, with clever engineering to provide plenty of running water and sanitation.

:) Sir Muslims do know but since we have many people from other countries so thats why i was saying so. And you have seen humanfirst also asked for it.
 
Nice quote..who said that?

Its a saying of our Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). It is also his Sunnah.

cleanliness is integral part of Islam. Many practices are proof of it.

There is another saying attributed to the prophet where he has forbidden us from eating and drinking water or other liquids in broken utensils (as we know in the old times most of these post were of clay and even today we see ceramics) he stopped from eating in such pots because germs are residing in these tiny pores of broken parts
 
I really need a statician for this but if we in subcontinent calculate the amount to money needed in treatment of multiple infections d/t lack of cleanliness.....it should be sufficient to uplift atleast 30% of poor out of poverty (I am hopeful that I am not making wild guesses).......just a thought.....

btw did u know Tuberculosis incidence fell in western countries long before the intrduction of antibiotics.....and the credit was their cleanliness.......sadly it again returned with HIV......:cry:
 
The current events and social issues forum is for Pakistan's issues and events. India may have its fair share of problems, but posting them here is construed as agenda driven to show them down or feel superior. This forum is not for point scoring against Indians, its to discuss things related to Pakistan.

If anything Pakistan's dirty toilets may be relevant here, not India's. This point scoring forumming needs to end from both sides.
 
and marriage is the other half, faiths complete, seems like we all gona go to heaven :woot:

Actually it's

Marriage is Half of Faith and the Rest is Fear Allah

There is a complete verse about cleanliness in the Quran which is used in conjunction with the cleanliness quote.
 
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