Vietnam asks China to end sovereignty violations

[pike]

Be quiet, VN even never had the chance to be on the list of the enemies of China.
One finger of China will totally destroy your country. Be quiet

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Nope,viets are The true robbers.
We beat the sh!t out of robbers instead of blaming ,unlike you viets.

Despite the arrogance, aggression and greed of china, we continue to negotiate to get back the islands peacefully ...

haha,do you think you can do better if the battle happened today?by the way,where is your navy?and "the sick man in Asia" came from the 1932 los Angles Olympic games,from which China got nothing but humiliation.China sent just one person to that Olympics.and you know how world changed?China now is the world number one in the Olympic games.nothing but the number one.

If you continue to arrogance, it would be good for us. We will continue to wait ...

Be quiet, VN even never had the chance to be on the list of the enemies of China.
One finger of China will totally destroy your country. Be quiet

But we've always beat you. Battle of Bach Dang River in 938 is a good example.

 

[northeast]

But we've always beat you. Battle of Bach Dang River in 938 is a good example.

Then why we have ruled you for one thousand years?
Damn,that's long.

 

[pike]

always beat China. haha, why is China not called vn?
funny big mouth

 

[oceanx]

Be quiet, VN even never had the chance to be on the list of the enemies of China.
One finger of China will totally destroy your country. Be quiet

The key is not to get mad. You are here to learn something and to exchange an opinion. Why succumb to provocation?

Threads like this are honey for trolling bees, whether the hindustanis who never feel secure, or the viets who feel aggrieved (rightly or wrongly).

Just ignore them. Don't bully and don't give in. In fact I think PRC has learned a thing or two if it indeed conducted as described in the article: carry on business as usual in shared "economic zones" - politely but firmly.

If Viets want to protest, then protest away.

If Viets want to ram a ship, then ram away.

As the old chair used to say, 天要下雨，娘要 。。。Viets are not enemies. But if they insist on being thorns then let the thorns grow "juicier" ...

Don't learn from Japan or Uncle, who got entangled.

Paying attention is "flattery". So don't even bother with threads like this where only the Ah-Qs, Ah-3s, and the Ah-fens find it worthy to make hay.

I am only offering you advice because you seem to be new and "sensible".

 

[pike]

Thanks, mate
actually, I am not serious with him

 

[oceanx]

It's hard to keep "sensible" around here, I'll give you that.

On that note, I'm gonna retire for the day.

Have a good one.

 

[beijingwalker]

Vietnam: Under the weight of China
August 27th, 2011
Author: Le Hong Hiep, Vietnam National University

Some researchers liken China to a rooster, with Korea as its beak and Vietnam its leg.

The analogy highlights the strategic importance of Vietnam toward China, especially in terms of security, while also suggesting that Vietnam must live under China’s weight. Vietnam is therefore, in Carlyle Thayer’s words, condemned to a ‘tyranny of geography’ where it has no choice but to learn to share its destiny with neighbouring China.

A stronger China has long been the most serious threat to Vietnam’s security. Vietnam came under Chinese suzerainty for almost a thousand years until 938 CE. Even after the French colonisation of Vietnam in the latter half of the 19th century, China was still deeply involved in Vietnam through invasion and occupation, as illustrated by the brief yet bloody war China waged along Vietnam’s northern border in 1979 and the naval clash initiated by China in the South China Sea in March 1988.

This threat posed by China toward Vietnam comes not only from geographical proximity but also the asymmetry of size and power between the two countries. China is 29 times larger than Vietnam, while Vietnam’s population, despite being the world’s 14th largest, is still only equivalent to one of China’s mid-sized provinces.

Vietnam’s impressive economic performance since the late 1980s hasn’t allowed it to close the gap in strength. This is because China’s own economic modernisation has caused the power gap between the two countries to become ever wider. According to World Bank data, China’s GDP expanded more than 16 times between 1985 and 2009 from US$307 billion to US$4.985 trillion. Vietnam’s GDP increased only seven times over the same period, from US$16 billion in 1985 to US$97 billion in 2009.

With its economic development, China’s military might has grown significantly, posing a formidable threat to Vietnam’s security. According to China’s official statements, its military budget for 2011 is US$91.5 billion, while Vietnam is said to have allocated US$2.6 billion. Particularly worrying for Vietnam is that China’s expanding military budget is concentrated on its air force and navy, strengthening China’s capacity to project power into the South China Sea where China and Vietnam have competing claims.

Vietnam’s transformation toward an open market economy also adds another aspect to this tyranny of geography: increased economic vulnerability.

Since Vietnam resumed trade with China in the late 1980s, its domestic production has long been threatened by Chinese goods — flooding the country through both formal and informal (smuggling) trade. This not only exerts a negative impact on Vietnamese domestic production but also puts Vietnamese consumers at risk when smuggled goods are toxic and harmful to people’s health.

Another vulnerability is Vietnam’s perennial trade deficit with China, amounting to US$5.4 billion out of the country’s total trade deficit of US$7.5 billion in the first half of 2011. China has also emerged as Vietnam’s largest source of imports, accounting for almost a quarter of its import turnover in 2010. Vietnam is heavily dependent on China for input materials for some of its major export industries, while Vietnam’s exports to China are just a minuscule portion of China’s total imports. Should China discontinue trade with Vietnam for some reason, the damage to Vietnam’s economy would be immense.

Another concern is that Chinese companies have won up to 90 per cent of EPC (engineering, procurement and construction) contracts for Vietnam’s major industrial projects, especially those of coal-fired power plants. Chinese contractors are favoured as they offer cheap technology and promise to help arrange financial funding from Chinese banks.

But although these projects appear to be cheap Vietnam in fact pays dearly. First, cheap technology usually is more polluting. Reports suggest some technologies offered by Chinese companies were discontinued or banned by China since 2005. Second, Chinese contractors’ technical capabilities are limited, causing projects to be delayed. Even when the projects are completed on time, shoddy construction often leaves project owners with expensive maintenance bills. Third, as Chinese contractors refuse to use locally available products, instead importing everything from China, Vietnam’s trade deficit with China soars. Chinese contractors are even illegally bringing in Chinese labourers at the expense of Vietnamese workers, provoking public outrage in Vietnam.

Another recently-exposed economic vulnerability for Vietnam relates to Chinese merchants buying massive quantities of Vietnamese agricultural products. This caused food prices to surge in Vietnam, and, despite the government’s desperate efforts to curb inflation, prices climbed by 20.8 per cent in June 2011.

Yet Vietnam seems to have few options for dealing with the economic vulnerabilities it faces over China. On the one hand, any possible reaction will likely be constrained by Vietnam now having to observe international trade and investment rules, as Vietnam acceded to the WTO in early 2007. On the other hand, Vietnam hopes that growing (though asymmetrical) economic interdependence will help to reduce the possibility of China taking militarily aggressive action against Vietnam, especially in the South China Sea. And, despite the drawbacks, Vietnamese businesses still find it much cheaper and more convenient to work with its looming neighbour than with other partners.

As a result, Vietnam continues to actively do business with China, especially given the allures of its northern neighbour’s booming economy. But, as an old Vietnamese saying goes, honey kills flies. The lesson here is that it is essential Vietnam stay fully aware of China’s potential threat; it must develop strategies to at least neutralise the economic aspects of the tyranny of geography the country increasingly suffers from.

Le Hong Hiep is a lecturer at the Faculty of International Relations, College of Social Sciences and Humanities, Vietnam National University, Ho Chi Minh City, and is currently a PhD Candidate at the University of NewSouth Wales, Australian Defence Force Academy.

A version of this article was originally published here by the The Diplomat.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Then why we have ruled you for one thousand years?
Damn,that's long.

Vietnam: Under the weight of China
August 27th, 2011
Author: Le Hong Hiep, Vietnam National University

Because your country was always relies on populous to bully smaller countries.
Your country often used the "human wave".
At that time, when the powers was decided by number of troops, we were not enough people to deal with "human wave" of you.
However, we took advantage of the opportunity to beat you in the battles decision, forcing your military ran home with tail shrinking between its legs.
(Unfortunately for your country, your army was still using tactics "human wave" in 1979, and they were trapped in our battlefield cannon's zones...)

"rule" is only form, in fact we as a nation independent of the kings who Vietnamese.
At that time, It only was the way for us to deal with the bullying of China....

 

[northeast]

Because your country was always relies on populous to bully smaller countries.
Your country often used the "human wave".
At that time, when the powers was decided by number of troops, we were not enough people to deal with "human wave" of you.
However, we took advantage of the opportunity to beat you in the battles decision, forcing your military ran home with tail shrinking between its legs.
(Unfortunately for your country, your army was still using tactics "human wave" in 1979, and they were trapped in our battlefield cannon's zones...)

"rule" is only form, in fact we as a nation independent of the kings who Vietnamese.
At that time, It only was the way for us to deal with the bullying of China....

No,that's not the truth,every country has its weakest time.and numbers doesn't mattered that much in ancient time.even tens of thousands of manchus can rule china when we were weak.But viets have always been seen and traded as slaves in china,because you are cowards.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

No,that's not the truth,every country has its weakest time.and numbers doesn't mattered that much in ancient time.even tens of thousands of manchus can rule china when we were weak.But viets have always been seen and traded as slaves in china,because you are cowards.

As I said, you only read the newspaper of the CCP propaganda so you did not know many things.
We don't have expansionist ideas, so after every time your army defeated, we even opened the way for they ran escape back china home.
In 1075, Vietnamese General Ly Thuong Kiet beat deep into the land of China to warn, then he retreated.

In 1075, Wang Anshi, the prime minister, told the Song Dynasty emperor that Đại Việt was being destroyed by Champa, with less than ten thousand soldiers surviving, hence it would be a good occasion to annex Đại Việt. The Song emperor mobilized troops and passed decrees to forbid all the provinces to trade with Đại Việt. Upon hearing the news, the Lý ruler sent Lý Thường Kiệt and Nùng Tôn Đản with more than 100,000 troops to China to carry out a pre-emptive attack against the Song Dynasty troops. In the ensuing 40-day battle near modern-day Nanning, the Đại Việt troops were victorious, capturing the generals of three Song armies.

Ly Thuong Kiet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[northeast]

As I said, you only read the newspaper of the CCP propaganda so you did not know many things.
We don't have expansionist ideas, so after every time your army defeated, we even opened the way for they ran escape back china home.
In 1075, Vietnamese General Ly Thuong Kiet beat deep into the land of China to warn, then he retreated.



Ly Thuong Kiet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah ,I understand you viets don't have expantionist idea on china,but can you tell me how did you get your southern part from natives?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Yeah ,I understand you viets don't have expantionist idea on china,but can you tell me how did you get your southern part from natives?

Also in the above excerpt from Wikipedia, you can see Champa was often colluded with the Chinese to invade Đại Việt. We could not live between two pincers. Survival, we were forced to break one...

In 1075, Wang Anshi, the prime minister, told the Song Dynasty emperor that Đại Việt was being destroyed by Champa, with less than ten thousand soldiers surviving, hence it would be a good occasion to annex Đại Việt. The Song emperor mobilized troops and passed decrees to forbid all the provinces to trade with Đại Việt. Upon hearing the news, the Lý ruler sent Lý Thường Kiệt and Nùng Tôn Đản with more than 100,000 troops to China to carry out a pre-emptive attack against the Song Dynasty troops. In the ensuing 40-day battle near modern-day Nanning, the Đại Việt troops were victorious, capturing the generals of three Song armies.
In 1076, the Songs formed an alliance with Champa and the Khmer Empire and sent troops to invade Đại Việt. Lý Nhân Tông sent, again, Lý Thường Kiệt. Being one of the many great military strategists of Vietnam, Lý Thường Kiệt had placed spikes under the Như Nguyệt River before tricking the Song troops into the deadly trap, killing more than 1,000 Chinese soldiers and forcing the Chinese to retreat.

In the above excerpts of Wikipedia, they recorded wrong "killing more than 100,000 Chinese soldiers" to "killing more than 1,000 Chinese soldiers" ???. China never withdrawn once only 1,000 Chinese soldiers killed.


Nam quốc sơn hà nam đế cư
Tiệt nhiên định phận tại thiên thư
Như hà nghịch lỗ lai xâm phạm
Nhữ đẳng hành khan thủ bại hư
(Lý Thường Kiệt)

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

LOL the last time Vietnam tried to resist our bullying, China invaded your country and killed 30,000 military and 100,000 civilians in just 28 days! Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I supposed we could have used nukes, because we were already a nuclear power by that time, but I guess there is something more satisfying about an up-close-and-personal invasion and occupation rather than just lobbing nukes from afar! Good job PLA.

So just accept our bullying, lay back and maybe even enjoy it because you can't do anything to stop us. China is way too powerful now

You did not know that tens of thousands of troops "elite" of your army perished on our border? Worse, they are kind of trained, regular, focused... but they were defeated quickly by our militia and local forces

Your army pained when they did face our forces.
So, to avenge the PLA's humiliation, instead of fighting our forces, they were suddenly attacked and killed innocent civilians.
Perhaps it is the tradition of your army, PLA?

the Time magazine: Vietnamese troops watch over detained Chinese soldiers on Feb. 26, 1979. Seasoned by decades of guerrilla war and equipped with the latest Soviet technology, the Vietnamese proved too strong for China's People's Liberation Army (PLA), whose strategy still revolved around deploying "human waves" of ragtag soldiers, a tactic used nearly three decades before during the Korean War.
China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME

“Most Western writers agree that Vietnam had indeed outperformed the PLA on the battlefield..."
What the PLA Learned in Vietnam, 1979 | Far Outliers

 

[beijingwalker]

Wikipedia
casualties

casualties


Chinese casualties

To this day, both sides of the conflict describe themselves as the
victor. The number of casualties is disputed, with some Western sources
putting PLA casualties at more than 20,000 throughout the war. Chinese democracy activist Wei Jingsheng told
western media in 1980 the Chinese troops had suffered 9,000 deaths and more than 10,000 wounded during the war,[25] but a recent leak showed that the PLA had 6,954 killed and 14,800 wounded,[5] and 238 Prisoners of War[26] in the course of the war.



Vietnamese casualties

There are no independently verifiable details of Vietnamese
casualties; like their counterparts in the Chinese government, the
Vietnamese government has never announced any information on its actual
military casualties. The Nhan Dan newspaper
the Central Organ of the Communist Party of Vietnam claimed that
Vietnam suffered more than 10,000 civilian deaths during the Chinese
invasion and earlier on May 17, 1979, reported statistics on heavy losses of industry and agriculture properties.
Vietnamese armed personnel:

Regular forces (from Chinese sources): 100,100 killed in total, Wounded: more than 10,000. 2210 Prisoners of War.[5][28] Province Militia and divisions of the Public Security Army: unknown.
the causality estimated: 70,000[29]