PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Purchase of PL 15E by PAF shows that PL 15E is enough to counter Rafael.
One more aspect is that if PAF will demand exact version of PL 15 (which might be slightly more long stick) ,Chinese will increase the cost too much to get more profit.So better stick with PL 15E instead of causing too much pressure on already stretched resources.

 

[Ghessan]

people enjoying their own way:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502199252809748481

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502230978017873920

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502384190142222348

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502376488653496320

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502334629172465667

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502330494800777216

https://twitter.com/ZainnMalikk_/status/1502295264345919489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502295264345919489%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.dawn.com%2Fnews%2F1189699

 

[NA71]

200 hundreds KM range is an overhyped number, it can’t be true in any circumstances. We will never reveal the number of max range of PL15 to public in any way, it’s national security.

now another source quoting:

Medium and long-range air targets, and the PL-15E air-to-air missile unveiled at the Zhuhai Air Show has a maximum range of 145 kilometers. It uses a combination of strapdown inertial navigation/satellite combination + active radar terminal guidance, and the domestic equipment PL-15E air-to-air missile has a range of Farther, reaching 200 kilometers.

https://min.news/en/military/7c329fd20fd453634f672e6a62474f96.html

 

[Falcon26]

Purchase of PL 15E by PAF shows that PL 15E is enough to counter Rafael.
One more aspect is that if PAF will demand exact version of PL 15 (which might be slightly more long stick) ,Chinese will increase the cost too much to get more profit.So better stick with PL 15E instead of causing too much pressure on already stretched resources.

You talk as if PAF is buying milk from the farmers’ market

 

[Bratva]

Speaking of PL-15, I've actually uncovered a public research paper that could potentially shed light on performance speculations. Do keep in mind that the paper states that the figures are "simulated data" and don't refer to any specific AAM, but some of the stats are very interesting.

View attachment 822652

The table lists the maximum range of AAM depending on the duration of time that elapses between the two pulses of a dual-pulse rocket motor. Under the head-on condition, the maximum range occurs when there is a 30 second gap between firing. If the gap between firing is 0s, the head-on maximum range is -- SURPRISE -- 145KM. The number matches too closely with the official specs on PL-15E for me not to take notice. What do you call a dual-pulse rocket motor with no pause between firing? A plain old single-pulse rocket motor.

This pretty much confirmed my suspicion that PL-15E does not feature dual-pulse rocket motor. It also shows that if dual pulse is used in optimal intervals, the unnerfed PL-15 could hit 182KM range.

Kindly all of you guys go through Above post of @siegecrossbow for PL-15 vs PL-15 E range difference

Can you state the visual differences b/w PL-15E and PL-15, so make it easy for many of us to recognize both

Same for the PL-10E

The modern jets of any AF should be able to dodge AAMs at long ranges of 200 KM, The AAMs having ranges of 150 KM+ for time being may be effective against less maneuverable air targets like AWACS/cargo planes.

Other one PAF never claimed to get this or that it was enthusiasts who claim to get PL-15 or PL-10.

On other hand it is stated and history reveals that PAF gets jets from foreign supplier with modifications, this does not mean that J10 version got by PAF is down graded.
Pak F22Ps frigates variant of Type 053H3 are much advanced than predecessor F7PG was also modified with better performance than F7 and presently tYPE 54P is much upgraded than Chinese ones.

yaar ....Bro I know this ...

But many members after seeing the pic of J-10 armed with missiles in the ceremony are claiming the Missiles as PL-10E & PL-15E, but the issue is pic was not showing the nomenclature so it is difficult to assume they read it.

Janta hoo bhai .... wo aik mazak tha ...

Visually I don't find any difference in both versions .... but these many people claiming missiles as E version so thought they might know something which I don't know

The difference is that E stands for export version and pl-15E is export version which has reduced range of 145 and same will be used by block3 but u never know there might be many pl-15 in our inventory also which can be kept as secret as always paf doesnt show's its cards until the very end and there are no visuall differences IMO i guess

Are we sure the PL15 of PLAAF has range more than 145KM?

@Deino or @siegecrossbow should know if there is any


The export version is stated to be around 145KM, the original surely has a longer range but I don't think there's any concrete number

Missile ranges are extremely arbitrary and meaningless values. They do not define how good a missile it as all and hence shouldn’t be used as such.

I never said the J-10C was downgraded, I was being sarcastic. The F22P and the F7PG came at a time where the original variants of both of these machines were very, very old, hence the upgrades were necessary to make them worthwhile purchases. Same goes for 054A/P (PS: PNs versions are not massively modified or better, only a few changes, with some of the changes already present in more recent PLAN 054A.)

Such is not the case with J-10, which is already modern and meets PAF requirements. The F22Ps and F7PGs did not have any sensitive technology released with them to Pakistan either. The F7PG was a result of Chinese Incapability at the time to make better equipment and Pakistans desire to sue western tech, again, not the case today.

details as per Chinese source:

According to Chinese media citing the U.S. Global Security website, the Chinese Air Force’s own PL-15 long-range air-to-air missile has a range of more than 150 kilometers, possibly as far as 200 to 300 kilometers, with active radar guidance and over-the-horizon combat capability, and could be equipped on the J-10C, J-16 and J-20 fighters.

If previous Western speculation is true, it is clear that the export version of the PL-15E has a discounted range – which is actually comparable to the range of the USAF’s current state-of-the-art AIM-120D long-range air-to-air missile.

Even with the discounted range of the PL-15E, its performance is enough to scare the West. The PL-15 could use either a dual-pulse engine or a ramjet engine and pose a serious challenge to the U.S. and its allied air forces with a range at least equal to that of the AIM-120D, advanced complex guidance, and a supporting active electronically scanned array radar, according to U.S. TheDrive site cited by Chinese media.


source:

Export versions of PL-15 and PL-10 missiles feared by US debut

www.china-arms.com

 

[Aesterix]

why we are regretting PL-15E?

Because its not on par with meteor.

 

[帅的一匹]

Because its not on par with meteor.

Let’s not try to get ahead of ourselves, wait and see

 

[Yasser76]

Because its not on par with meteor.

Literally no one can say that with any confidence at all. Both missiles true capabilities are not known, neither have seen combat.

 

[ziaulislam]

Have we considered the possibility that Pakistan just isnt as special as some Pakistanis consider it to be and that’s while China does allow Pakistan some tech that it doesn’t allow others, it doesn’t allow everything to be bought by Pakistan? Why do you think China made an export version of the PL-15 and PL-10? To export it obviously. It’s not like they’ll allow everyone to buy the export version either, it’s sensitive enough as is. Pakistan got the export version, why? Because it’s a foreign country. I don’t see why Pakistanis have a hard time believing that.
Another thing I don’t understand is why Pakistanis think the export versions are so bad, they’re clearly still some of the best in their class. Just putting an E next to the name doesn’t make the missile worst. By that metric Why did Pakistan get J-10CE and not J-10C. Clearly the E next to the name means it’s a downgraded jet.

TLDR: Pakistan got PL-15E and PL-10E because the PLAAF versions aren’t meant for export, and Pakistan isn’t special enough to get access to them (no one is, they’re made for Chinese forces only). The fact that Pakistan is being sold J-10Cs with PL-15E and PL-10E should itself be enough to show how much China is willing to give Pakistan. It’s not that hard to grasp.

This is the most logical and likely scenario, especially considering people that deny this have no proof and are often proven to be wrong.

Yes its poasible we arent special
But historically we have been

 

[NA71]

Kindly all of you guys go through Above post of @siegecrossbow for PL-15 vs PL-15 E range difference

post link sir

 

[Rafi]

Because its not on par with me

We are retaining first shot capability...nuff said.

 

[Deino]

Is it written j10cp or j10 ce?

They are at least per CAC called J-10CE

 

[Aesterix]

Kindly all of you guys go through Above post of @siegecrossbow for PL-15 vs PL-15 E range difference

If PL-15E doesn't have dual pulse motor , then it's more rubbish than i thought.
Dual pulse doesn't only increase range, it also helps in sustaining kinetic energy while maneuvers and terminal phase.
The missile uses the second motor as close to the target as possible.
That means the missile has a motor burning, when it needs thrust the most, at the last moments when it's twisting and turning to catch the target.

 

[Yasser76]

We are retaining first shot capability...nuff said.

The real beauty is that IAF supplies of Meteor will be limited (and only can be carried by Rafales), Chinese can probably churn out more PL-15s in a day then IAF has total number of Meteors. That is the game changer here.....

 

[NA71]

SIZE dekh rahey ho bhai....

PL-15/E has dual pulse propulsion ...can attain Mach 4.0 Speed and pull upto 20G....

Meteor is Mach 5.0 and pull up to 40 G

(Thanks to google)