Indian Wipro is going to buy an american company

[Developereo]

For people talking about capitalism, the point is true. However, the nonsense about "highly skilled' Indians and 'Indian companies creating American jobs' is a load of bull. The numbers in a recent NASSCOM press release were dissected in another thread to show how the supposed American jobs created were crap.

Here's the basic scenario:

- American Client (AC) needs some work done. They solicit, and get, bids from American Vendor (AV) and Indian Vendor (IV). The IV typically underbids by a substantial amount and gets the contract, since the AC follows capitalism and goes for the lowest bidder.

- Now the IV has two choices: they can get the work done in India, or in the US. The first option is cheaper, but has additional complications. The onshore option is relatively more expensive but affords more flexibility. So how did IV manage to underbid AV when they are both doing the work onshore? It's because the IV will hire almost all H1-B imported workers from India. Those jobs are lost to American workers, but the IV will claim to have 'created' jobs in America, even though the workers are almost all imported from India.

Now people will say that there are labor laws regulating salaries and such, so IV can't really undercut AV by much. To those comments, we can only shake our head sardonically: people can be so naive!

Beating labor laws is the easiest trick in the book. What you pay someone, and what you show on the books, need not be the same. As long as the taxes add up, the government knows jack. The H1-B Indians won't complain because, in exchange for these sacrifices, they get an American visa and onshore American experience, both of which they can leverage to transition to a proper American company. At that point, no one will give damn about their fake degree and fake past experience: the only thing prospective American employers will care about is recent relevant onshore experience.

End result: American jobs lost, Indian workers imported to take those jobs, and all the while Indian companies claim they created jobs in America.

 

[Yogi]

I didn't open any thread buddy. The thread was already opened and I contributed to it. But instead of trying to come back with your silly comments and de-credentialize the post. Do you have anything solid to offer? May be a counter argument that makes sense?
To the readers reading this post, as always the Indian members jumped up and down on this post trying to cover and cloud what I had written above in my post. So please read the thread all the way up to my posts and find truth like how I find Jesus.

O boy, let me rephrase the question for ur better understanding :

Why did u reopened an April 2011 thread?

As regard to ur question of providing a counter agrument, i have the following words -

Blind hate has no end...

Many members have tried to explain u genuinely but the term logic is beyond ur comprehension, people like u don't even have the courage to put their ur true flag...

Rather than jumping up n down on like a butt hurt monkey behind an American flag opening oupss reopening a 1.5 year old threads just to score some cheap shots, it would be better if u invest ur time in some positive work for ur mother land...

 

[jbond197]

For people talking about capitalism, the point is true. However, the nonsense about "highly skilled' Indians and 'Indian companies creating American jobs' is a load of bull. The numbers in a recent NASSCOM press release were dissected in another thread to show how the supposed American jobs created were crap.

Here's the basic scenario:

- American Client (AC) needs some work done. They solicit, and get, bids from American Vendor (AV) and Indian Vendor (IV). The IV typically underbids by a substantial amount and gets the contract, since the AC follows capitalism and goes for the lowest bidder.

- Now the IV has two choices: they can get the work done in India, or in the US. The first option is cheaper, but has additional complications. The onshore option is relatively more expensive but affords more flexibility. So how did IV manage to underbid AV when they are both doing the work onshore? It's because the IV will hire almost all H1-B imported workers from India. Those jobs are lost to American workers, but the IV will claim to have 'created' jobs in America, even though the workers are almost all imported from India.

Now people will say that there are labor laws regulating salaries and such, so IV can't really undercut AV by much. To those comments, we can only shake our head sardonically: people can be so naive!

Beating labor laws is the easiest trick in the book. What you pay someone, and what you show on the books, need not be the same. As long as the taxes add up, the government knows jack. The H1-B Indians won't complain because, in exchange for these sacrifices, they get an American visa and onshore American experience, both of which they can leverage to transition to a proper American company. At that point, no one will give damn about their fake degree and fake past experience: the only thing prospective American employers will care about is recent relevant onshore experience.

End result: American jobs lost, Indian workers imported to take those jobs, and all the while Indian companies claim they created jobs in America.

Dude, learn the basics. Job creation is more tied to tax generation rather than nationality. Now even if the hired resource is Indian or Pakistani or American tell me who is getting the tax? Also, many of the migrated H1B's are running businesses here in US. I can see you are struck with that Consulting firms thingy and conveniently ignoring the crux of the matter..

 

[Developereo]

Dude, learn the basics. Job creation is more tied to tax generation rather than nationality. Now even if the hired resource is Indian or Pakistani or American tell me who is getting the tax? Also, many of the migrated H1B's are running businesses here in US. I can see you are struck with that Consulting firms thingy and conveniently ignoring the crux of the matter..

If the jobs were done by local Americans, the same amount of tax would be generated. What I am disputing is the claim that Indian companies create American jobs. The fact is that those jobs would need to be done regardless: all the Indian companies are doing is filling those jobs with imported Indian workers rather than hiring local Americans.

Note: 'local American' includes resident/citizen Indian-Americans also.

 

[Yogi]

For people talking about capitalism, the point is true. However, the nonsense about "highly skilled' Indians and 'Indian companies creating American jobs' is a load of bull. The numbers in a recent NASSCOM press release were dissected in another thread to show how the supposed American jobs created were crap.

Here's the basic scenario:

- American Client (AC) needs some work done. They solicit, and get, bids from American Vendor (AV) and Indian Vendor (IV). The IV typically underbids by a substantial amount and gets the contract, since the AC follows capitalism and goes for the lowest bidder.

- Now the IV has two choices: they can get the work done in India, or in the US. The first option is cheaper, but has additional complications. The onshore option is relatively more expensive but affords more flexibility. So how did IV manage to underbid AV when they are both doing the work onshore? It's because the IV will hire almost all H1-B imported workers from India. Those jobs are lost to American workers, but the IV will claim to have 'created' jobs in America, even though the workers are almost all imported from India.

Now people will say that there are labor laws regulating salaries and such, so IV can't really undercut AV by much. To those comments, we can only shake our head sardonically: people can be so naive!

Beating labor laws is the easiest trick in the book. What you pay someone, and what you show on the books, need not be the same. As long as the taxes add up, the government knows jack. The H1-B Indians won't complain because, in exchange for these sacrifices, they get an American visa and onshore American experience, both of which they can leverage to transition to a proper American company. At that point, no one will give damn about their fake degree and fake past experience: the only thing prospective American employers will care about is recent relevant onshore experience.

End result: American jobs lost, Indian workers imported to take those jobs, and all the while Indian companies claim they created jobs in America.

Do u have any source to support ur claim that most H1 B Indians have fake degrees or it was just another cheap shot to satisfy ur ego???

 

[jbond197]

If the jobs were done by local Americans, the same amount of tax would be generated. What I am disputing is the claim that Indian companies create American jobs. The fact is that those jobs would need to be done regardless: all the Indian companies are doing is filling those jobs with imported Indian workers rather than hiring local Americans.

Note: 'local American' includes resident/citizen Indian-Americans also.

And why do you think the H1B's are allowed in America? Local American's only called in immigrants first from China and then from Rest of the world to handle the shortage they had. But for the recession there were never this wide scale american job losses before and as the economy is improving I hardly see any one who is fit sitting idle. The jobs has to be done and deserving ones gets what they want. It does not make sense to hang around with the ones who are either old guns or not fit for the jobs.

Also not all Indians come here via outsourcing firms. Many come here for education and then get into jobs and create American businesses + American jobs. so you are sticking around with fraudulent body shops which are no doubt there but at the same time multinational businesses like IBM,Microsoft, GE, Accenture, Siemens + Think of any american financial institutions - all are importing H1Bs. So now what's wrong with them? have they become Indian Vendor companies as well?

 

[Developereo]

Do u have any source to support ur claim that most H1 B Indians have fake degrees or it was just another cheap shot to satisfy ur ego???

I didn't say 'most'.
Don Burleson Blog: Inside the H1-B Visa scam

A U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services [USCIS] study, H-1B Benefit Fraud & Compliance Assessment published in September 2008, found a 27 percent rate of fraud in the H-1B visa program.

Here's the USCIS report: http://www.bradreese.com/h1b-fraud.pdf

And more: http://www.ijbssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_9_May_2012/4.pdf

A study of Social Security number-use by recent H-1B foreign residents reported as well that numerous petitions involved fraud or technical violations (U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services 2008). The overall violation rate was 36%. Fraud included counterfeit or forged documents, storefront or shell businesses, no bonafide job offer, and misrepresentation of H-1B status.

 

[Developereo]

multinational businesses like IBM,Microsoft, GE, Accenture, Siemens + Think of any american financial institutions - all are importing H1Bs.

Don't get me started about IT Indians imported by IBM, Accenture, etc.

I have dealt with dozens over the years and they range from truly outstanding workers to, literally, some manager's relative who used to own a fruit stand. I would rather not write down my opinion of IBM India.

Bottom line, Indians are no smarter or dumber than average Americans; it's just that they work cheaper and/or will put up with crappy work conditions.

And why does America allow this to continue? because of bribery, er lobbying, by big business. This keeps downward pressure on wages and floods the market with workers.

I am not blaming the Indians for taking advantage of the situation: it's capitalism at work, pure and simple.

 

[idune]

If the jobs were done by local Americans, the same amount of tax would be generated. What I am disputing is the claim that Indian companies create American jobs. The fact is that those jobs would need to be done regardless: all the Indian companies are doing is filling those jobs with imported Indian workers rather than hiring local Americans.

Note: 'local American' includes resident/citizen Indian-Americans also.

You have caught these no clue big mouth by b a l l s. To the point.

 

[Yogi]

I didn't say 'most'.
Don Burleson Blog: Inside the H1-B Visa scam

A U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services [USCIS] study, H-1B Benefit Fraud & Compliance Assessment published in September 2008, found a 27 percent rate of fraud in the H-1B visa program.

Here's the USCIS report: http://www.bradreese.com/h1b-fraud.pdf

And more: http://www.ijbssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_9_May_2012/4.pdf

A study of Social Security number-use by recent H-1B foreign residents reported as well that numerous petitions involved fraud or technical violations (U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services 2008). The overall violation rate was 36%. Fraud included counterfeit or forged documents, storefront or shell businesses, no bonafide job offer, and misrepresentation of H-1B status.

1. Indian r not the only people getting H1B visa, although our share might be as high as more than a quater but that doesn't single out Indians anyhow.

2. The term used here is ''fraud'' which has a wider meaning than forged documents n include other ways of fraud also.

3. Considering all the above points it doesn't give u a right to call H1B visa holder Indians as fake degree holders as majority of them r qualified hard working people, So u being a THINK TANK should atleast try to use words which result in unnecessary flamebait n trolling...

 

[Developereo]

1. Indian r not the only people getting H1B visa, although our share might be as high as more than a quater but that doesn't single out Indians anyhow.

Indians get 47% of H1-B visas. The number varies every year, but remains in the ballpark.

2. The term used here is ''fraud'' which has a wider meaning than forged documents n include other ways of fraud also.

And I listed at least three types of fraud: credentials fraud, experience fraud, and salary fraud. It doesn't mean every person commits all three types, or that everyone commits fraud.

3. Considering all the above points it doesn't give u a right to call H1B visa holder Indians as fake degree holders as majority of them r qualified hard working people, So u being a THINK TANK should atleast try to use words which result in unnecessary flamebait n trolling...

I didn't say anything about majority, but a 27% (or 36%) fraud rate is significant.

 

[idune]

3. Considering all the above points it doesn't give u a right to call H1B visa holder Indians as fake degree holders as majority of them r qualified hard working people, So u being a THINK TANK should atleast try to use words which result in unnecessary flamebait n trolling...

Developereo has stated exactly the way facts are. 27% at various level false degree, false, experience, false claim and false other documents.. list goes on. Just because reality and truth reflects indian wrong doings and massive frauds, does not mean other has to tailor the truth for indian ego. Better thing to do would be fixing these frauds so people has less to talk about.

 

[acid rain]

Don't see any Americans here complaining except some Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's, and I cannot figure out them complaining as they do the same thing what we do in Western countries. Real Americans should have a problem not immigrants of the same status.

 

[Yogi]

Indians get 47% of H1-B visas. The number varies every year, but remains in the ballpark.



And I listed at least three types of fraud: credentials fraud, experience fraud, and salary fraud. It doesn't mean every person commits all three types, or that everyone commits fraud.



I didn't say anything about majority, but a 27% (or 36%) fraud rate is significant.

Still the report doesn't single out Indians any way neither this means that 27% of H1 B Indians carry fake degrees nor it justify ur comment on H1 B Indians...

I agree that there might be some bad apples here n there but that doesn't give u the right to generalise the statement...

 

[surya kiran]

Let me address all your concerns:
Globalization: bull crap. You were given jobs initially to save American tax payers dollars. Cheap labor is cheap labor. Period. By introducing Indians, if I take your 'smartness' into account. Which company did you take to a level never seen before? The only thing you did, was to create the financial mess due to jobs being outsourced.
The policy you are referring to, was created to kick Muslims out of your country to Saudi Arabia etc. THAT was what you guys was doing and some people made money off it by BPO. Thus, the globalization started behind a curtain of lies and money being paid as bribe to get business. The rest was due to 'cheap labor' not to get the supermen. lol

You employ Americans? I am SURE you do. I've personally kicked out a lot of Indians like you, who show up on other peoples papers and can't do the work and lie on their resume. Whoever thinks Indians are all smart...is smoking illegal pipes. There are many dumb as sh** people too. Just like in every culture. But I've kept the good ones and they are nice and hard working and educated. They don't thump their chests like idiots here. Nor do they tell everyone how 'superior' they are. Cuz they've learned they are not. That's reality. Being a geek and program for 20 hours a day might seem fun to you and a show of your 'smartness' but others can workout, play golf and close a $ 50 million deal in those 20 hours. I'll let you pick what 'smart' means!!!
The smartness didn't come to India in an Alien ship. In fact, the Iranians, the Israelis, the Pakistanis, the Chinese, etc have the same aptitude too.

As far as drone strikes are concerned, its sad if they are killing civilians. BUT it is essential to the US national security that we root out the terrorists. In fact, my version is the on 9-12, there should've been MASSIVE airstrikes on the Afghan targets. We could see the OBL gang from the Sats. So no asking or telling anyone, a massive airstrike and level ANYTHING that looks like an Al-Qaeda hideout. I guarantee you, we'd have killed OBL and if not, we'd have killed 75% of his people and destroy 80% of their infrastructure. THAT would've avoided a war that gave these MOFO's time to hide.

One day, the fight will go to India to kill terrorists that rape Kashmiri women and kill Kashmiri children. Hindu terrorist that burn mosques, burn Christian villages and kill minorities when they are in their homes. I'd love to see those captured too. What do YOU think about that?

Btw, this past years or so was great. OBL and his Hindu cousin Baal Thakrey are both dead and burning in hell. Sounds peace to me!!!

Your entire post makes no sense. Hence have thanked the same. PLEASE DO UNDERSTAND people who do come on this forum also can be be well educated and extremely well placed in what we do. Not just you. And yes, I have personally kicked out an American from my team. And I did not work in some BPO.

Your entire post shows your level of understanding of global economics. Go back to B-School, whichever you did it from. Or better still, I advice you to try an Indian one. Best of luck with that

Bro - I can ASSURE you, I know more about economy and capitalism than you do. Trust me on this. I agree with your post that there was a need for outsourcing. But what got Americans out of work was the obsessive nature of tax savings by some who went crazy on it. Capitalist system doesn't tell you to take bribes and outsource work not necessary to be outsourced. Capitalist system also doesn't make it legal for people to run illegal Indian ring of companies involve in charging money so people can keep their H1 visas while legally they would be out of status. Capitalist ALSO doesn't make it legal that you, as a business send me a guy on another one of your employees papers under 'corp to corp' umbrella. America gave you opportunity. You guys took advantage of a honorable system and introduced Indian culture into it and destroyed our economy. Resulting in jobs going offshore, the jobs here going to Indians and the money flowing to India for services and not coming back. That's the truth. So, please know that A,B,C schools don't have a rats butt to the discussion. I am talking about the illegal activity that takes place between Indian companies. I personally know people who are part of the Indian mafia ring. It's sad. One day, the laws will get tighten and plenty will be deported or jailed. May be then this massive illegal network will slow down!!!

Oh man! You think American companies and Americans do everything legally ? Which world are you living in? The only place Americans play legal is where they have the advantage. SO please cut the crap of your Americans do things legally.