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Hillary Clinton put in Hot Seat by Pakistani Media

Wow,, being from Pakistan the last thing some one wants to do is bring up the treatment of women.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A Pakistani lawmaker defended a decision by northwestern tribesmen to bury five women alive because they wanted to choose their own husbands, telling stunned members of Parliament to spare him their outrage.

"These are centuries-old traditions, and I will continue to defend them," Israr Ullah Zehri, who represents Baluchistan province, told The Associated Press Saturday.

And if the people of Pakistan make peace with the Taliban they will not enemys of the only the USA but the rest of the modren world...:pakistan::usflag:

i didn't brought the issue of women treatment. First just look into the American society and than raise finger towards others. or is it the typical american arrogance.....
 
THIS IS A SAD SAD DAY AT THE FORUM -

S-2 > Surely you could have taken some hits without buckling over completely.
I thought you were quite good at counter battery yourself.
The Professor's language conforms to American usage and are not considered vulgar by any standards.
And this Forum has seen more vulgarity used by its own staff and still tolerated.
The entry in question dealt with holistically to a conflict that confounds us all.
A conflict that should never be.

With your only anti-dote gone - welcome to the level playing field, S-2.
 
i didn't brought the issue of women treatment. First just look into the American society and than raise finger towards others. or is it the typical american arrogance.....

Perhaps its more intelligence and education then arrogance when compareing the treatment of women in the USA to that of Pakistan.

In the USA there are no laws that allow discrimination of women like Hahood in Pakistan as matter fact their are laws against discrimination against women and sever penlities,,,another example of the law in the USA if a man strikes a women he gos to jail automatically, in Pakistan its not even against the law
 
2) Even your dictator Musharaf admits he diverted US funds for the WOT to the Indian border for the "ultimate interest of Pakistan".
False - its been thoroughly debunked here.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ganda-exposed.html?highlight=Diversion+of+aid

For all the talk about Pakistanis believing in rumors and half truths, Americans are not too far behind either.

3)So bottom line "We don't trust your ***".
Ditto on the Pakistani side, and the Pakistanis she engaged with made sure they conveyed that, if not in so many words.
How did they show up in the hands of the "Kashmiri freedom fighters" in the Kargil war who turned out to be the Northern Light Infantry. How did they end up in North Korea? Was the exchange for missile technology worth it?

A number of people on this forum have been asking for the drones to be given to you. If our govt gave it to you, in my eyes it would be a fundamental mistake. In no time it will end up with your Chinese brothers, or the North Koreans.

So your army can point to the targets and our guys in San Diego will pull the trigger.

Pakistan is an operator of the Stinger, so of course it would have them, and I am not aware of the type of AA missile used to bring down the Indians in the Kargil war, but what I do know is that the PA claimed it, and not the freedom fighters.

Secondly, have you looked at the list of nations that operate the Stinger?Why blame Pakistan for it if NK ends up with it. Maybe they bought it from one of the many Afghan factions after the Soviets left.

Maybe they bought it from the Israelis, who are rumored to have passed on F-16 technology in the shape of their Lavi program to China.

Show me when exactly, and what, Pakistan transferred prohibited US technology to China, or stop lying.
 
Off the top of my head I'd say what remains of the Sovereign State of Pakistan will cease to exist.

The remark was made in response to the assertion that the US could get AQ without Pakistani assistance.

Even taking into account your Puerile threats about the 'Pakistan ceasing to exist' (is 'Time up' yet? been what, over a year, year and a half?), such an event would only cause greater instability and chaos in which AQ would thrive - which means you can't do it without Pakistan, at least not without resort to some of S-2's genocidal options.
 
Perhaps its more intelligence and education then arrogance when compareing the treatment of women in the USA to that of Pakistan.

In the USA there are no laws that allow discrimination of women like Hahood in Pakistan as matter fact their are laws against discrimination against women and sever penlities,,,another example of the law in the USA if a man strikes a women he gos to jail automatically, in Pakistan its not even against the law

i'm not interested in going off-topic.
 
"...at least not without resort to some of S-2's genocidal options."

What would those be, A.M.?

Attack a Pakistan that fully acquiesces and connives a deal with the taliban should my scenario unfold?

Let's review- cut all aid to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Embargo all trade to Pakistan. No problem, I've been told. You'll survive just fine.

Leave Afghanistan forthwidth. Should be no problem. You and everybody else here, I think, would applaud THAT.

Now what happens in the genocide continuum? DOES AMERICA proceed to slaughter the Hazara, tajiks, and uzbeks in Afghanistan? Nope. Those will be those indigenous afghan taliban (along with the invisible and so-called mythical Haqqanis, Hekmatyars, Bahadurs, Nazirs and, oh yeah, QUETTA shura. AND A.Q. of course).

So...after digesting THAT lil' meal, guess who's next?

NOW comes the fun. Do you fight with all your might to resist the inevitable wave of irhabists pouring over your western borders?

Gee, A.M....I dunno. Let's say you do...and win. Cool. Problem solved, right? Let's say you fight WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT and lose.

NOW we've got a problem in India, America, Russia, and the PRC as I see it and you can bet there's a rather predictable calculus that follows of which ol' S-2 will not have any hand in.

Ah...but there's a third scenario too, isn't there? That's the one where instead of fighting, for reasons only discernable in the minds of your military and civil elite, they "cut a deal" to share power.

"IMPOSSIBLE", you say?

Not from where I sit it isn't. It's entirely possible. Again, what follows is predictable but certainly not genocidal.

Quit flaming with your rhetoric and get serious for a change. Meanwhile, Mr. "Nobody here but us peacable Pakistanis", we aren't buying and my post to you also remains unanswered. Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Nazir, Bahadur, etc...

B.S. to the notion that only "foreigners" (i.e. A.Q.) have been on your former lands. Tell that to Taimikhan in the Rah-e-Nijat thread. He seems to understand that the P.A. will not stand in the way of Nazir and Bahadur's murderous ambitions in Afghanistan.

Why don't you? Are you a dissembling apologist for their objectives?

Genocide, indeed.:angry:
 
i'm not interested in going off-topic.

I can understand why,,you would not want to talk about Pakistan Womens rights

,,Pakistan can side with the Taliban and Radical Islam or they can side with the west and the modren world.....in the end its Pakistans decision and Pakistan will get what it deserves.

If Pakistan sides with the Taliban and Radical Islam they will continue to be "educationally backward, scientifically marginal, politically insignificant, economically poor and militarlily weaklings",
I think Gen. Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan said that.
 
...at least not without resort to some of S-2's genocidal options.
And even then the problem will not be resolved. This genocide thing has already been tried unsuccessfully in Vietnam and Cambodia and is already underway in Afghanistan first by the Northern Alliance and now by the NATO/ISAF plus Northern Alliance. Americans are already defeated (poor guys are only surviving by bribing the local warlords and the insurgents) in Afghanistan and in order to hide their defeat, they are bringing the war to Pakistan. American and its allies’ defeat in the region is written on the wall, sooner or later they will leave and leave they will in great humiliation.
 
Eight years after the farcically titled Operation Enduring Freedom was launched in Afghanistan, albeit with good intentions , it has achieved the opposite result. Living under the fear and barrage of drone attacks and violence has meant that instead of enduring freedom, it might be said the war has led Afghans into a cycle of enduring misery. If ever a perverse strategy to win "hearts and minds" was launched this must be it. No wonder the Afghans aren't a grateful bunch.

But if the Afghan people aren't yielding to the irrepressible logic that the continued presence of foreign troops in their homeland should be welcomed by them, they are not alone in their scepticism. In Britain, public opposition to the Afghan war has gathered much momentum. A recent Populus poll revealed that 68 per cent favoured troop withdrawal this year. The continued loss of British lives together with the billions funnelled overseas for a war without any achievable purpose.

Returning as a war hero from Vietnam, the US senator John Kerry posed a powerful question to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? More than three decades later, as that same question rings aloud again in Afghanistan, a bold act of leadership is needed to bring the human suffering to a close.
 
And even then the problem will not be resolved. This genocide thing has already been tried unsuccessfully in Vietnam and Cambodia and is already underway in Afghanistan first by the Northern Alliance and now by the NATO/ISAF plus Northern Alliance. Americans are already defeated (poor guys are only surviving by bribing the local warlords and the insurgents) in Afghanistan and in order to hide their defeat, they are bringing the war to Pakistan. American and its allies’ defeat in the region is written on the wall, sooner or later they will leave and leave they will in great humiliation.

and Pakistan will become another radical islamic hell hole,,so be it,, its Pakistans Choice.
 
I can understand why,,you would not want to talk about Pakistan Womens rights

,,Pakistan can side with the Taliban and Radical Islam or they can side with the west and the modren world.....in the end its Pakistans decision and Pakistan will get what it deserves.

If Pakistan sides with the Taliban and Radical Islam they will continue to be "educationally backward, scientifically marginal, politically insignificant, economically poor and militarlily weaklings",
I think Gen. Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan said that.

if you are so desparate to discuss women why don't u start a thread in the relevant section and i will see u there?
 
Can Mrs. Clinton Control CIA In Afghanistan?
October 30, 2009

Ahmed Quraishi

Two years ago, when isolated reports in the Pakistani media accused the United States of playing a double game in Afghanistan, most commentators dismissed them as conspiracy theories and kneejerk anti-Americanism. Today those reports dominate the mainstream Pakistani media. The distrust is so serious that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had to turn her first official visit to Pakistan into a firefighting mission, kicking off a charm offensive to win over skeptic Pakistanis.

Her campaign has included Facebook advertisements targeting young Pakistanis, town-hall type meetings, and group television interviews with anchors meant to maximize her on-air exposure. Before she even landed in Pakistan, Clinton had instructed US diplomats in Islamabad to get tough with the Pakistani media. At one point, the American ambassador wrote a secret letter to a large Pakistani newspaper accusing one of its columnists, a critic of US policies, of endangering American lives. She gave no evidence of how a policy critique endangered anyone’s life. The columnist was dropped after ten years of working for the paper. The US embassy in Pakistan is very powerful thanks to a pro-US Pakistani government that sees Washington as a hedge against the powerful Pakistani military.

Not that Mrs. Clinton and the US diplomats are alone in countering critics of US policies here. Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington Husain Haqqani, a former journalist who is widely derided as ‘Washington’s ambassador in the Pakistan embassy’, is known to have put his media management expertise in the service of defending his government’s ultra close ties with Washington, although his planted image-enhancement stories find little buyers among Pakistanis.

Mrs. Clinton’s visit was so carefully choreographed that US diplomats launched a strict vetting process to determine which Pakistani television anchors should be allowed to participate in a ‘pool interview’. The point was to exclude anyone critical of US policies ['anti-American' to US diplomats]. This sharply contrasts with the statements Clinton has been giving here, like this one she gave to the television anchors, “It is especially critical that we do more of what you’re doing today with your colleagues so that I have a chance to answer the questions that are on the minds of the people of Pakistan.”

But when time came for the real questions, she dodged them. So much for a successful public diplomacy.

Despite all this vetting, one anchor, Talat Hussain from Aaj News, managed to throw a couple of ‘real’ questions that unsettled Secretary Clinton. Visibly embarrassed, she kept repeating the line, ‘No one can say Pakistani media is not free after this’ and she kept repeating it until the end of the show.

At one point, media officials in the provincial capital Lahore wrote to higher-ups complaining against US diplomats who manipulated which Pakistani journalists should be allowed to interact with Clinton. “She came here to interact with Pakistanis. US diplomats don’t get to decide which Pakistani media can attend her public events and which one cannot,” a senior Punjab provincial official told me from Lahore.

This kind of media management is normally the prerogative of the host government and not the guest. In another press interaction with a few journalists in Lahore, Mrs. Clinton sat down with a handful of predominantly pro-American media personalities, including one widely known to be a paid consultant for the US Department of Defense, who normally advises on Pakistani affairs and is famous for saying everything that American policymakers want to hear.

Mrs. Clinton was received by a junior Foreign Office diplomat while for some reason Foreign Minister Qureshi stayed away

So much for Mrs. Clinton’s public diplomacy mission, almost every Pakistani journalist known for well reasoned and calibrated critique of US policies was excluded from any interaction with the US Secretary of State. Which says a lot about Washington’s tolerance level for criticism despite the high-sounding lectures on democracy that Mrs. Clinton delivered in Pakistan.

How fake in real sense this public diplomacy trip was can be gauged from the following: Mrs. Clinton’s first day in Pakistan was full of warm imagery and rhetoric: how she and her husband love Pakistanis, how she and President Obama enjoy Pakistani food, how honest and straightforward she is, and how sincere United States is in its friendship with Pakistan.

But when it came to substance, she was full of hot air. For example, during the ‘pool interview’ with seven television anchors, she curtly ignored a question about the increasing incidents of arrests of US special operations officers inside Pakistani cities carrying diplomatic passports and illegal weapons. You would think she might want to address this point considering that this and similar stories are stoking Pakistani public’s anger. But no, she didn’t.

Merely two days before her arrival, four US ‘diplomats’ were arrested somewhere in the Pakistani capital dressed as Afghan Taliban, carrying illegal and unlicensed weapons, and in possession of pictures of sensitive buildings. They were released on the intervention of the Interior Ministry, headed by a close aide of President Zardari. The Ministry is openly accused in the media of not only covering for the US embassy’s illegal actions but also of licensing the operations of private US security firms across Pakistan on an unprecedented scale not seen or known even during the reign of the former pro-US president Musharraf. Interestingly, the Pakistani intelligence agencies have been kept out of the loop by both the US embassy and the Ministry. This alone has generated tremendous ill will within the Pakistani public opinion against Washington.

Last month, a Pakistani journalist published official documents leaked from within the Interior Ministry that positively showed US Ambassador Anne Patterson colluding with the Ministry to ‘legalize’ a cache of weapons that came from an unknown source [most probably from Afghanistan]. The cache was handed over to an American security firm that was later stopped from operating in Pakistan.

Mrs. Clinton had a simple answer when a journalist asked her about such incidents. “I don’t know about this,” is what she said to someone asking her about the latest incident involving four US ‘diplomats’.

These are some of the issues that the mainstream US media hides from the American public. No wonder most Americans don’t know how bad their government and intelligence mess in Afghanistan is. US citizens are unaware, for example, about the strong Pakistani apprehensions that Washington – or some powerful lobbies there – decidedly brought in anti-Pakistan forces into the government in Kabul, and then set them loose on a course of collision with Pakistan, including recruiting, financing and training terrorists to incite an ethnic insurgency in Balochistan exploiting local grievances. For most of the past eight years, the US Ambassador in Kabul was an anti-Pakistan diplomat who spent more of his Afghan assignment finding ways and means to target Pakistan.

Pakistanis also have strong evidence that some Americans allowed India to set up a vast intelligence network there, hidden beneath several development projects. This network is involved in pumping money and weapons to terrorists inside Pakistan. [On Oct. 28, Pakistani police arrested five members of a banned militant outfit and seized about 150 kilos of explosives of Indian origin, automatic rifles and suicide vests from them].

The above cannot happen in US-occupied and controlled Afghanistan without US knowledge. Or, to be precise, without the knowledge of at least one influential US actor: the intelligence community. CIA and possibly other US spy agencies that come under the Department of Defense are involved in fostering terrorism not just in Pakistan but also inside Iran and western China.

In Pakistan, elements in CIA aided by the Indians and Karzai’s spy groups have played a role in setting up and feeding insurgencies across western Pakistan between 2004 and 2008. This was done during the Bush-Cheney administration as punishment for Pakistan for not completely submitting to the US project in Afghanistan. Washington then suspected that Musharraf was double dealing. US did not want Pakistan to have any independent foreign policy or ideas on Afghanistan, Kashmir and India other than what Washington was planning.

The spate of recent suicide bombings in Pakistan, killing some 200 Pakistanis in less than a month, is not the work of mountain hillbillies in South Waziristan on the Pak-Afghan border but the work of trained operatives who receive support, intelligence and training from organized military groups.

We know our own citizens are involved in this terrorism, but the small terror army in South Waziristan is not getting its money and weapons from inside Pakistan. Rehman Malik’s Interior Ministry and the military’s spy agencies have credible, strong and detailed information about how a US-controlled Afghanistan is being used for anti-Pakistan covet warfare. BLA and TTP terrorists have a safe haven there. Terrorist Abdullah Mehsud was killed in 2007 slipping back from Afghanistan through Balochistan [and not the tribal belt] after meeting his backers. We know why the Chinese working on different projects in Pakistani were targeted here.

American officials like Hillary Clinton avoid commenting on these issues. The question she dodged from a Pakistani journalist on armed US ‘diplomats’ was a sign that we increasingly recognizing from watching US diplomats work in Iraq and Afghanistan. US diplomats are averse to commenting on possible clandestine activities of CIA and or people from the US military in the host country.

For years, US officials have been praising Pakistan for helping eliminate Al Qaeda and complaining about lack of Pakistani cooperation in pursuing the Afghan Taliban. That was Bush administration’s refrain. Under Mr. Obama, his diplomats in Islamabad took turns this month in threatening war against Pakistan and in confirming the presence of Mullah Omar and Bin Laden inside Pakistan, without evidence of course, since US statements are enough. In return we, Pakistanis, are not allowed to make similar conjecture about the presence of bin Laden in Afghanistan, where the US military can’t control the country eight years later.

Mrs. Clinton has added a twist to this American-Afghan saga. One of her rather bold statements in Pakistan is so fantastic I must quote it as it was reported by the Associated Press: “I find it hard to believe that nobody in your government knows where they [Al Qaeda] are and couldn’t get them if they really wanted to,” Clinton said in an interview with Pakistani journalists in Lahore. “Maybe that’s the case. Maybe they’re not gettable. I don’t know.”

Amazing to see her determination to question the role of Pakistan when she has no evidence on anything that she is saying.

While the isolated pro-US Pakistani government is understandably reluctant to confront Washington on this eight-year-old charade, the Pakistani public opinion, the media, opposition parties and the powerful military have all had it. Washington is good at messing things up and even better at pinning the blame on others. For some reason, Mrs. Clinton and her administration won’t admit that they messed up Afghanistan big time and that rogue elements within the US military and intelligence played a big role in this. [The New York Times has reported that one of Afghanistan's biggest drug barons, a brother of the US-backed Afghan president, has been on CIA's payroll for years. Criminals and warlords in the Afghan government are allies of CIA and the US military. The US spy agency is also involved in fomenting trouble inside Pakistan, Iran and western China using the Afghan base. CIA is not always good at what it does, that's why many Pakistanis have ended up knowing some of the truth. Late but better than never.]

Can Mrs. Clinton and President Obama control CIA and the increasingly independent-minded US military in Afghanistan? The answer to this question will determine if peace returns to our region any time soon.
 
""This genocide thing has already been tried unsuccessfully in Vietnam and Cambodia and is already underway in Afghanistan first by the Northern Alliance and now by the NATO/ISAF plus Northern Alliance..."

Moved from the states yet or do you routinely practice such self-deceit with your own children?

Ah...didn't think so.

Fascinating that you'll suspend your dubious morals to line your pockets with our gold while choosing to grandstand for the homeboyz on this forum.

What a walking, talking self-parody you are...:rolleyes:
 

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