One in four Americans 'doesn't know the Earth orbits the Sun' and only half believe in evolution

[Hermione]

Frankly, I don't believe you any longer.

Respect went a long time ago. Now it is your basic facts that I doubt.

Why when you can hold on to your Brahmin evil theories, then why should I not hold on to my contempt of leftists. I am a Kuruba or something of that sort, basketweavers to be precise is what my community is supposed to be part of. Though I have frankly not bothered to find out much about them.

Not that what you believe matters.

It may be partially true. Money is also a differentiator. But you know what, OUR position will not change with their financial position. There's no discrimination between a rich dalit and a poor dalit, but against EVERY dalit. They aren't to be touched, they aren't to be entertained beyond the first room of the house, and they obviously cannot dine with us.

I know that my personal experiences aren't some standard to measure Brahmins and their influences everywhere. But I'm not lying when I say that I didn't take my friends to our ancestral home in the fear that they may get insulted if anyone asked them their caste and proceeded to tell them where all they aren't allowed in the House. No economics here at least.

It is the older generation thing. As you yourself show you do not hold those beliefs yourself. Likewise others too. I have Lingayats as friend and other Brahmins and when we were in Mumbai we lived in a Brahmin society with all Brahmin neighbors. My father used to feel bad about our eating non-veg, especially if a neighbor came home then. I used to get angry about his attitude then. But I have learnt to laugh it over.

This Lingayat friend of mine, her mom is one such eccentric. She first would not have a maid at home because of "maadi." There was too much house work and she was old and getting tired and could not handle it. Then she relented and got a maid, even then her paranoia about maadi meant my friend had to rinse all the clothes which were washed by the maid once more. Or carrying all the buckets from the bathroom and keeping it on the bed so that they do not get polluted. I mean these are laugh worthy antics and troublesome to them ultimately, but they did do such things. My friend was tired of arguing against her mom's behavior. She herself had no such beliefs.

 

[Indischer]

It is the older generation thing. As you yourself show you do not hold those beliefs yourself. Likewise others too. I have Lingayats as friend and other Brahmins and when we were in Mumbai we lived in a Brahmin society with all Brahmin neighbors. My father used to feel bad about our eating non-veg, especially if a neighbor came home then. I used to get angry about his attitude then. But I have learnt to laugh it over.

This Lingayat friend of mine, her mom is one such eccentric. She first would not have a maid at home because of "maadi." There was too much house work and she was old and getting tired and could not handle it. Then she relented and got a maid, even then her paranoia about maadi meant my friend had to rinse all the clothes which were washed by the maid once more. Or carrying all the buckets from the bathroom and keeping it on the bed so that they do not get polluted. I mean these are laugh worthy antics and troublesome to them ultimately, but they did do such things. My friend was tired of arguing against her mom's behavior. She herself had no such beliefs.

The old guard is cuckoo alright. But a few of my brothers and cousins who haven't received formal education from urban educational institutions still harbour the old attitudes. But they're definitely much milder in their prejudices. I guess TV has been a big boon in many ways.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

As per you England and Europe were scientifically and technologically advanced even before they landed in India, and you were going to write in detail about that. I am still waiting to get enlightened by you.

As u wish,btw leibniz and newton developed calculus almost in the same period seperately and are remembered as such.And if u think newton's contribution is limited to calculus alone then ur delusional.Now let me expand on that.

17th century europe's scientific progress-



1]Newton's theory of gravity complete with equations.The basis of most mathematical equations.This is the starting point of modern physics.

2]Galileo's theory of inertia.

3]Newton's 3 laws of motion.The cornerstone of physics.When mathematics replaced logic[as was aristotle's argument] as the language of physics.

4]Navigation and shipmaking.Especially sailing ships in which neither middle east nor asia was anywhwere near at the time.Aided by invention of instruments such as vernier scale and the octant.

5]Some more inventions =Toricelli-barometer.Napier-logarithms.The steam digester-forerunner to steam engine.Since this is limited to 17th century i won't go a very decades forward where lavoisier and others begin discovery of gasses and chemistry proper begins from the mid 18th century.

6]kepler's laws of planetary motion.Newton's theory of optics.[has been superseded only recently by einstein]

But most of all in military technology.Lighter smaller mobile field artillery and mass manufacture of them.Socket bayonet,and soon flintlock muskets.Spanish were fielding hundred gun galleons capable of long range ocean travel while the rest were still using shallow water galleys.Superior fortifications.[see vauban's fortifications]

On the other 2 concepts of heliocentrism and atomism,these 2 we knew in ancient indian itself[aryabhatta and kanad etc] and came to europe later.But they weren't 'learnt' as such from european 17th century expeditions to the subcontinent.Copernicus ,and galileo paid a heavy price for his curiosity.

 

[Hermione]

@AUSTERLITZ

East India Company was established in India by 1612 and all the discoveries happened before the end of the 17th century. Surprising coincidence nah. The Dutch and the Portugese long before that had a toe hold in India. Of course these guys never stole anything. They started discovering everything on their own just like that from 1600s.

1. Surya Siddhanta explains laws of gravity. Reproduced again in Bhaskara's texts. Explained gravity as a push and not a pull.

2. Newton's laws of motion were lifted from the Sanskrit texts and Aryabhatta’s written work in Sanskrit.

Aryabhatta’s formula giving the tat-kalika-gati (instantaneous motion) is given by the following -

u'- v' = v' - v ± e (sin w' - sin w) (i)
where u, v, w are the true longitude, mean longitude, mean anomaly respectively at any particular time and u', v', w' the values of the respective quantities at a subsequent instant; and e is the eccentricity or the sine of the greatest equation of the orbit.

"True motion in minutes is equal to the cosine (of the mean anomaly) multiplied by the difference (of the mean anomalies) and divided by the cheda, added or subtracted contrarily (to the mean motion)."
δu = δv ± e cos θ δ θ.

3. Shipbuilding
50 years before Independence, a 100 years ago, India was one of the largest ship building countries in the world. Indian shipbuilding was centered along the Western Coast in Kalyan, Bhivandi and Mumbai, in South India at Narsapurpeta (near Masulipatnam) and in Bengal at Chittagong and Hooghly. The “modern era” began with the building of a dry dock at Bombay about 1750; a second was erected in Calcutta about 1780. During the 19th century, the industry was in a period of expansion and prosperity. However, for the last 100 years, the yards have been in a general decline.

During Shivaji’s reign, as per estimates, more than 300 ships of 300 tons capacity were launched. The Wadias alone built more than 350 ships – during 1735-1863 170 war vessels for the East India Company, 34 man-of-war defence vessels for the British Navy, 87 merchant vessels for private firms, and three vessels for the Queen of Muscat at Bombay docks. After the Bombay Port Trust was formed in 1870, the shipbuilding on the Western Coast moved to Mumbai. In 1872, Jamshedji Wadia, from a Parsi ship-building family, constructed the “Cornwallis”, a frigate with 50 guns, bought by the East India Company. This led to several orders from the British Navy.

Bengal was the other major port where ship building was for global markets. Chittagong was the center for shipbuilding (now in Bangladesh). The Turkish Navy (a major world power till WWI) was a major customer. The Mughal and British navies were the other significant defence customers. Merchants cargo ships were in significant demand. Ma Huan, the famous chronicler and interpreter ofZheng He (also called Cheng Ho) voyages, during the Ming dynasty, studied boat building in Bengal during the early 15th century (1400-1410).

The third major center for ship building was Narsapurpeta (near Masulipatnam) port – which was a major center of exports of steel, diamonds, saltpetre (potassium nitrate, for gunpowder, to kill Indians, Negroes, Aborigines and Red Indians with) from the Deccan plateau.

These buyers preferred Indian ships, because of better jointing technology and elimination of metal sheeting. Indian shipbuilders had a special system where wood was seasoned in partial vacuum, with oils for timber improvement. British shipbuilders, colonialists ensured through tariff and other barriers, that Indian shipbuilding “was prevented from continuing to develop, even though it had a proven ability to adapt to changing technological needs” – and thus finally killing it. British naval superiority rested on Indian ships – and paid for by exploitation of Indian resources.

In 1498, Vasco da Gama’s ocean-going ship, the Sao Gabrielcame to India. The Portuguese caravel are well-known. But what do the Portuguese call their ocean-going ships? Nau. Yes, nau as in Hindi, for boat. Few of these Indian built ships have been recovered in various parts of the world. Indian shipbuilding expertise ruled the world – till colonialism killed it.

Varahamihira wrote the Brihat Samhita. Kerala navigation is based on his Astronomy.

4. Metallurgy
As late as 1908, Indian metallurgical skills were known and acknowledged in Europe – the then economic and technological powerhouse of the world.

The high quality of the native-made iron, the early anticipation of the processes now employed in Europe for the manufacture of high-class steels, and the artistic products in copper and brass gave India at one time a prominent position in the metallurgical world.‎ (Page 128 – The Imperial Gazetteer of India: Vol Iii; Originally published in 1908. Author: The Indian Empire Language: English).

The Ashoka pillar made of steel, now in New Delhi, is a marvel of metallurgy. For more than 1600 years, it has stood in the rain, exposed to scorching sun, freezing winters and buried under the earth for a few years.

Still shining. No rust. And no deterioration. Estimated at 6-7 tons in weight, nearly 70 feet in height – and cast in a single block. There are reputedly other such pillars at Dhar and Kodachadri (Karnataka).

Konark Sun Temple (related to Sun Temple at Karnak, Egypt?) used about 2000 tons of lodestone and iron clamps. No mortar, no bricks. Iron clamps helped to keep up parts of this structure in the air based on magnetic repulsion. The iron beamssurvived for more than 700 years. The Jagannath Puri temple has similar quality and vintage of steel.

As the source (for Konark temple) Dharmapad, recounts, Narasimha Dev, the ruling king, ordered the sculptors to complete construction earlier than the estimated time – with accompanying threats. The team could not keep up with the king’s schedule, and the Sutradhar (Chief Architect) Sri Sibei Samantaray was sidelined. Another architect was assigned the job of completing this work. The newly appointed Sutradhar did complete the work by the stipulated time – but since he did not have the plans, structural inconsistencies crept in.

Wootz steel, was the preferred input in the world, for swords, pistols and such. Known as Damascus steel, it went into Japanese Katanas, European guns. The famed Damascus steel swords, armour and pistols, used steel ingots imported from India as Wootz steel. Indian exports of Wootz was a big earner for India till British efforts killed this industry in India. Subsequent efforts to “reverse engineer” this technology in Europe during the 20th century, has been unsuccessful. Damascus was the trading centre over which the Battle of Kadesh, the biggest chariot battle, was fought between the Indo-Aryan Hittites and the Egyptian Pharoah Ramesses-II fought.

The world’s first suspension bridge, at Menai Straits, in Britain, used Indian steel. Colonial geologists, Pataki Krishna Chaterjee and Thomas Henry Diggs La Touche, noticed that,

“….its (iron’s) superiority is so marked, that at the time when the Britannia tubular bridge across the Menai Straits was under construction preference was given to the use of iron produced in India”.

5. Precision Cutting Tools
South India was the only source of diamonds till middle 18th century. Being the hardest, natural substance on Earth, diamond cutting was a high technology industry and India monopolized this business till the 14th century. From circa 6th century, we have the Buddha Bhatta’s text “Ratnapariksha” which served as a manual for Indian gemologists. The French traveller Tavernier reputedly (call it ancient industrial espionage) took that technology to Europe.
Brazilian diamond finds in 1725, the South African discovery in 1866-67 changed the supply equation. The auction of Napoleon III’s French Royal diamonds in 1871 brought diamonds in limelight. Boucheron, Bapst along with Tiffany and Co. cleaned up this auction. The Koh-i-noor continues to captivate the minds of people.

It is this skill and technology acquired over the centuries that makes India into a global hub for diamonds. The diamond cutting dominance by India is by now a 2500 year old phenomenon.

While on cutting tools, one cannot forget the role of lubricants. The finest lubricants is castor oil – which was identified, grown and a monopoly of India till 1950s. Only in the 1960′s did other synthetic fuels and lubricants start competing with castor oil. It has ‘incredible film strength’ – and can resist tremendous pressure. It’s superior ‘wetting ability’ makes it also very effective. One expert on extracting performance from go-kart vehicles says,

“For consistently squeezing that last bit of performance out of your engine, it’s pretty hard to beat castor oil as the lubricant in your fuel.’

What special about castor oil: ‘Two words – IT WORKS.’

6. For military technology, India had mobile artillery and iron cased rockets.

7.

Illustrations from the Book India (1876) | This is a water driven turbine; a fore-runner of the modern hydro-electric dams. This also shows existence of gears in India - while the Industrial Revolution was happening in Britain. India in 1857 - An Industrial Powerhouse? 1857: History & Propaganda | 2ndlook

Ajit Vadakayil: VEDIC COSMOLOGY OF INDIA - 5000 BC -- CAPT AJIT VADAKAYIL

8. India was the largest producer of Gun powder.

Indian Gunpowder – the Force Behind Empires | 2ndlook

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

U are going more absurd by the day.Newton's laws of motion are vastly seperate from aryabhatta's algebra and astronomy.They deal with force,mass,acceleration and establish gravity even to the point of pinpointing the gravity constant.U picking random lines without any idea what ur talking abt.
And all the other inventions i mentioned,where did u think they came from?Some obscure manuscript east indian company got hold of?
On shipbuilding,at one point ur talking about 17th century then jumping to 18th and 19th century.Do u even realize that bombay and calcutta shipyards that u provide as proof were actually towns established BY the british,including the ports.The east indian company gave orders for ships to ports owned by itself.Its not example of indigeneous technical genius,rather east india company setting up harbours and using them for them,selves with their tech.Show me the great sailing ship technology in the 17th century ,that was reknowned.U can't because there was none.One of the primary failure of the mughals,the reason why they were bullied by even tiny portugese at sea.Shipbuilding was abyssymal.Last great indian shipbuilding was under cholas,shivaji had a small competent navy.But those are incomparable to the 3 decker sailing ships carrying hundreds of artillery guns that the royal navy or dutch,portugese used.To prove ur point u cherrypicked tothe extent that u brought jamsedji of the 19th century into the discussion,who made frigate under british rule derived from tech that the english brought to the subcontinent.
On metallurgy,i don't know why u brought this up,coz nowhere in my post i said indian metallurgy was inferior.Just that practical application and mass production was deficient.Especially in terms of artillery production.Exactly why indian rulers had to hire european experts for artillery.See every indian kingdom at that time increasingly had european captains manning and leading the artillery.Making fine pillars and superb swords is not the only application of metallurgy.And its not as if europe was useless at making swords or artistic use of metallurgy[check louis xiv's versailles palace]

Don't joke on the stae of mobile artillery.Artillery superiority of british was primary success of their victories in the subcontient.Tipu's rockets were mostly inaccurate and primitive-but yes this is a good point.This was one thing the british did copy in form of their congreve rockets.

So really its best if we know our historical fallacies,how we stagnated in the middle ages after the technical advances of the ancient era and learn from it,rather than make up imaginery fairy tales which just amount to poor jingoism.We are back in the field of science in modern times and advancing by leaps and bounds after the spread of modern nationwide education and this is what matters most.Why muddle the issue with ultra national falsehood?

 

[Hermione]

On shipbuilding,at one point ur talking about 17th century then jumping to 18th and 19th century.Do u even realize that bombay and calcutta shipyards that u provide as proof were actually towns established BY the british,including the ports.The east indian company gave orders for ships to ports owned by itself.Its not example of indigeneous technical genius,rather east india company setting up harbours and using them for them,selves with their tech.Show me the great sailing ship technology in the 17th century ,that was reknowned.U can't because there was none.One of the primary failure of the mughals,the reason why they were bullied by even tiny portugese at sea.Shipbuilding was abyssymal.Last great indian shipbuilding was under cholas,shivaji had a small competent navy.But those are incomparable to the 3 decker sailing ships carrying hundreds of artillery guns that the royal navy or dutch,portugese used.To prove ur point u cherrypicked tothe extent that u brought jamsedji of the 19th century into the discussion,who made frigate under british rule derived from tech that the english brought to the subcontinent.

The Portugese were getting their ships built in India in the 16th and 17th century in Cochin weighing over 2000 tons. Shivaji's ship were not built on orders of British. Some of the ships as stated in our ancient texts were carrying 700 to 1000 people. So they were not shallow water galleys.

Return of the Crazy Bird: The Sad, Strange Tale of the Dodo - Clara Pinto Correia - Google Books

Jean Baptiste Tavernier recorded a local tradition in the 1660s that gunpowder and artillery were first invented in Assam from whence they spread to China and he mentioned that the Mughal general who conquered Assam brought back numerous old iron guns captured during the campaign.

Indian Gunpowder – the Force Behind Empires | 2ndlook

Europeans worked and expanded on the work Indians had done. By 16th century a lot of Indian texts had already found their way to Europe. This is less absurd than your falling for the European lies that all of a sudden the Europeans who could not come up with even an efficient number system of their own started discovering everything.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The Portugese were getting their ships built in India in the 16th and 17th century in Cochin weighing over 2000 tons. Shivaji's ship were not built on orders of British. Some of the ships as stated in our ancient texts were carrying 700 to 1000 people. So they were not shallow water galleys.

Return of the Crazy Bird: The Sad, Strange Tale of the Dodo - Clara Pinto Correia - Google Books

Jean Baptiste Tavernier recorded a local tradition in the 1660s that gunpowder and artillery were first invented in Assam from whence they spread to China and he mentioned that the Mughal general who conquered Assam brought back numerous old iron guns captured during the campaign.

Indian Gunpowder – the Force Behind Empires | 2ndlook

Europeans worked and expanded on the work Indians had done. By 16th century a lot of Indian texts had already found their way to Europe. This is less absurd than your falling for the European lies that all of a sudden the Europeans who could not come up with even an efficient number system of their own started discovering everything.

Ok,so gunpowder was invented in assam.I rest my case.
And u seriously comparing shivaji's navy to the sailing ships of the royal navy?And no portugese ships were built in home ports or in ports under portugese control,not by orders to indian kingdoms.You are increasingly desperate and delusional.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Ok,so gunpowder was invented in assam.I rest my case.
And u seriously comparing shivaji's navy to the sailing ships of the royal navy?And no portugese ships were built in home ports or in ports under portugese control,not by orders to indian kingdoms.You are increasingly desperate and delusional.

Yes, gun power was invented in Assam in the 17th century, and then it time travelled to the 9th century, China.

 

[LordTyrannus]

US imperialist Government controls its population with cheap fast food and **** industry. If you cut both than USA will colapse.

 

[Hermione]

Yes, gun power was invented in Assam in the 17th century, and then it time travelled to the 9th century, China.

It was not invented in 17th century. It was recorded as being used in Assam along with artillery that was invented in Assam in 17th century.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

In 1800, a son from a rich family of refugees from the French Revolution in America,after a survey of business opportunities in America, wrote "There already exist in the United States two or three mills which make very bad powder and which do however a very good business. They use saltpeter from India which is infinitely better than that which is produced in France but they refine it badly."

India’s pioneering status in saltpetre was common knowledge. English publications,for instance in 1852 and another in 1860 gave weightage to the opinion of "those who believe that gunpowder was invented in India and brought by the Saracens from Africa to the Europeans; who improved its manufacture and made it available for warlike purposes."

Unlike China, with an odd textual reference or a drawing or a singular artefact, was the entire industry in India – which remained unrivalled in the history of the world. Compared to China’s paltry production of gunpowder, India’s widespread and organized gunpowder production system points towards indigenous development. There are reports, that in “664 an Indian visitor to China reportedly demonstrated the peculiar flamability of saltpeter and provided instructions on how to locate it (Pacey 1990, 16).”

Indian Gunpowder – the Force Behind Empires | 2ndlook

 

[Hermione]

And u seriously comparing shivaji's navy to the sailing ships of the royal navy?And no portugese ships were built in home ports or in ports under portugese control,not by orders to indian kingdoms.You are increasingly desperate and delusional.

You are dumb beyond belief. Was Cochin under Portugese control? The contracts were given to the Indian kingdoms to build the ships. A Royal order (Portugese) of 1598 emphasized the importance of building ships in India because they were superior to anything being built at home.

Return of the Crazy Bird: The Sad, Strange Tale of the Dodo - Clara Pinto Correia - Google Books

The coasts were not like foreign countries, remote and unreachable. So it is not like Marathas would not know the ship building which was happening in Goa or Cochin. Of course they were superior to anything the Royal Navy had.

Sir Mountstuart Elphinstone says: "The histories of Java give a distinct account of a numerous body of Hindus from Kalinga who landed on their island, civilized the inhabitants and established an era still subsisting, the first year of which fell in the seventh year before Christ."

"These pilgrims sailed from the Ganges to Ceylon, from Ceylon to Java and from Java to China in ships manned by crews professing the Brahmmanical religion."

(source: History of India - By Mountstuart Elphinstone London: John Murray Date of Publication: 1849p. 168-185).

Most of the sculptures show in splendid relief ships in full sail and scenes recalling the history of the colonization in Java by Indians in the earlier centuries of the Christian era.

Of one of them E. B. Havell thus speaks in appreciation:

"The ship, magnificent in design and movement, is a masterpiece in itself. It tells more plainly than words the perils which the Prince of Gujarat and his companions encountered on the long and his companions encountered on the long and difficult voyages from the west coast of India. But these are over now. The sailors are hastening to furl the sails and bring the ship to anchor."

Big ships were built. They could carry anywhere upwards from 500 men on the high seas. The Yuktialpataru classifies ships according to their sizes and shapes. The Rajavalliya says that the ship in which King Sinhaba of Bengal sent Prince Vijaya, accommodated full 700 passengers, and the ship in which Vijaya's Pandyan bride was brought over to Lanka carried 800 passengers on board. The ship in which Buddha in the Supparaka Bodhisat incarnation made his voyages from Bharukachha (Broach) to the "sea of the seven gems," carried 700 merchants besides himself. The Samuddha Vanija Jataka mentions a ship which accommodated one thousand carpenters.

And you are saying that India which was trading with Rome and Africa and going all along to Korea even 2000 years ago was building shallow water galleys? Do you sound intelligent to even yourself?

Indian princess from Ayodhya who traveled all the way to Korea in Ship.

Indo-Korean expert to discuss the route of Queen Huh from Ayodhya to Korea - Hindustan Times

 

[Pakistani E]

Yes, gun power was invented in Assam in the 17th century, and then it time travelled to the 9th century, China.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

You are dumb beyond belief. Was Cochin under Portugese control? The contracts were given to the Indian kingdoms to build the ships. A Royal order (Portugese) of 1598 emphasized the importance of building ships in India because they were superior to anything being built at home.

Return of the Crazy Bird: The Sad, Strange Tale of the Dodo - Clara Pinto Correia - Google Books

The coasts were not like foreign countries, remote and unreachable. So it is not like Marathas would not know the ship building which was happening in Goa or Cochin. Of course they were superior to anything the Royal Navy had.

Sir Mountstuart Elphinstone says: "The histories of Java give a distinct account of a numerous body of Hindus from Kalinga who landed on their island, civilized the inhabitants and established an era still subsisting, the first year of which fell in the seventh year before Christ."
"These pilgrims sailed from the Ganges to Ceylon, from Ceylon to Java and from Java to China in ships manned by crews professing the Brahmmanical religion."

(source: History of India - By Mountstuart Elphinstone London: John Murray Date of Publication: 1849p. 168-185).

Most of the sculptures show in splendid relief ships in full sail and scenes recalling the history of the colonization in Java by Indians in the earlier centuries of the Christian era.

Of one of them E. B. Havell thus speaks in appreciation:

"The ship, magnificent in design and movement, is a masterpiece in itself. It tells more plainly than words the perils which the Prince of Gujarat and his companions encountered on the long and his companions encountered on the long and difficult voyages from the west coast of India. But these are over now. The sailors are hastening to furl the sails and bring the ship to anchor."

Big ships were built. They could carry anywhere upwards from 500 men on the high seas. The Yuktialpataru classifies ships according to their sizes and shapes. The Rajavalliya says that the ship in which King Sinhaba of Bengal sent Prince Vijaya, accommodated full 700 passengers, and the ship in which Vijaya's Pandyan bride was brought over to Lanka carried 800 passengers on board. The ship in which Buddha in the Supparaka Bodhisat incarnation made his voyages from Bharukachha (Broach) to the "sea of the seven gems," carried 700 merchants besides himself. The Samuddha Vanija Jataka mentions a ship which accommodated one thousand carpenters.

And you are saying that India which was trading with Rome and Africa and going all along to Korea even 2000 years ago was building shallow water galleys? Do you sound intelligent to even yourself?

Indian princess from Ayodhya who traveled all the way to Korea in Ship.

Indo-Korean expert to discuss the route of Queen Huh from Ayodhya to Korea - Hindustan Times

If u even bothered to read my post i already acknowledged chola maritime achievements.But what i said was that europeans didn't copy shipbuilding from that,and second the european sailing ships with large numbers of cannons were simply way ahead of anything made in the subcontinent up till that period due to negligence of the sea.

 

[Hermione]

If u even bothered to read my post i already acknowledged chola maritime achievements.But what i said was that europeans didn't copy shipbuilding from that,and second the european sailing ships with large numbers of cannons were simply way ahead of anything made in the subcontinent up till that period due to negligence of the sea.

How do you know they did not copy ship building from India? There were cannons on Indian ships. What Indian kingdoms lacked was the inhumanity of the Europeans to shoot and kill and become pirates. There was no negligence of sea either. India had both artillery, ample gunpowder, ships, navigational skills, maritime trading history. All this you dismiss because of a 200 year old colonialism? Suddenly Europeans were the greatest in the world?

Britain – The Rise of a Pirate Empire | 2ndlook

The Ebk Pillaging the Empire: Piracy in The - Lane - Google Books

I am not indulging in jingoism, but opposing this foolish slavish admiration of everything European. This utter lack of common sense and lack of belief in India and its people.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I give up..u just absolutely haven't read anything about renaissance,the printing press or the scientific revolution.These along with demise of feudalism led to foundations of europe's greatness that lasted 3 centuries and gave it hegemony over the planet.it ended with world wars and rise of worlwide nationalism.These are well known facts,if u have limited knowledge its not my fault.Go and make a search in google about the comparative strength of the artillery of the subcontinent and the ships.IF tech was so good why were tiny portugese laughing at mughals from goa.Why every ruler had europenas in charge of their artillery.U have made some pre-concieved notions and i feel its increasingly impossible to make u see anything else than what u want to believe.Ur no better than a religious fanatic.Replace god with nation.