Retired U.S. general on how to handle IS and why we lost in Iraq, Afg

[he-man]

What does my origin have to do this, kid ?

Old man,it has everything to do with what u stated.
I wish to end it here.

 

[gambit]

Old man,it has everything to do with what u stated.
I wish to end it here.

Everything ? How ? In what ways ?

 

[he-man]

Everything ? How ? In what ways ?

As i stated before lets not derail the thread with personal rants.

 

[gambit]

As i stated before lets not derail the thread with personal rants.

In other words, you have no credible arguments as to why a person's racial/ethnic origin have any bearings on US political actions in Iraq, but you just need a convenient jab at me, anyway.

Get the phuchk out of this thread, kid. Go look out your window in whatever hovel you live in India and see the mess that is your country before you criticize US. I am here to speak as an American, if you want to make my origin an issue, I will glad to make yours and your country the target of my posts.

 

[he-man]

In other words, you have no credible arguments as to why a person's racial/ethnic origin have any bearings on US political actions in Iraq, but you just need a convenient jab at me, anyway.

Get the phuchk out of this thread, kid. Go look out your window in whatever hovel you live in India and see the mess that is your country before you criticize US. I am here to speak as an American, if you want to make my origin an issue, I will glad to make yours and your country the target of my posts.

Old man,live ur remaining life in peace,don't stress out.

 

[gambit]

Old man,live ur remaining life in peace,don't stress out.

Take your own advice, kid, and stress out over the mess that is India, before you stress out over the racial/ethnic origin of an American and how he talks about Iraq. Your country cannot even handle public defecation in your own country and here you are criticizing US on how to install democracy in Iraq ?

 

[he-man]

Take your own advice, kid, and stress out over the mess that is India, before you stress out over the racial/ethnic origin of an American and how he talks about Iraq. Your country cannot even handle public defecation in your own country and here you are criticizing US on how to install democracy in Iraq ?

Yeah right,,old age is clearly clouding ur judgement here
Just hang on and don't take any unnecessary drastic step o great american

 

[SQ8]

We have our own standards to go by. No Americans on this forum ever tried to justified or explained away what a few US soldiers did to those prisoners. What I was talking about is the degree of involvement of heinous acts into institutions like the military, for example. In the many dictatorships YOU know well enough, tortures are common place and usually the FIRST tool in the cabinets. Do you really think that an organization like the ACLU can, not only exist, but is politically and socially powerful, in countries like your friend China, or Russia, or even your own Pakistan ?

Perhaps it can or cannot. The point is, WHY CANT AMERICANS critique the American system without having to bear the "guilt" of where they came from? Be it Pakistan or Vietnam.. your identity(and mine soon).. or that of @Syed.Ali.Haider or @MastanKhan is an American. Hence in that light regardless of how bad Pakistani standards or Vietnam or Indian or Timbuktu are.. you or they have the right to ask for a look at American policies, debate potential mistakes.. without the reaction that "look to where you came from first" as the all and final counter argument.

If it was due to say..limitations in technology or monitoring one could say ok..thats the best we can do. But the fact is that the United States DOES have the ACLU.. it does have higher moral standards than any tin pot dictator in Burma.. and most importantly.. it gives the democratic right to Americans to question why such mistakes were made. After all, if the US Senate can hold a hearing on drone strikes in Pakistan and bring in witnesses from Pakistan without saying that look.. the Pakistanis should at themselves first before talking about drone strikes.. It also forms that US policies regarding the middle east or China can be debated without reactionary arguments on say the middle east fixing itself first or otherwise.

The initial premise of the thread was not unjustified in either case. The US has made mistakes in both OEF and OIFF which should not be repeated in the fight against IS..and this is not just a personal opinion by a layman US citizen.. its the opinion of a high ranking military officer. Hence, his word alone should justify the idea that this debate makes sense.

If you really look at it, your previous arguments and those of others replying you.. are more or less emotional rhetoric rather than discussing why something is or was not a mistake or was.

 

[VCheng]

Perhaps it can or cannot. The point is, WHY CANT AMERICANS critique the American system without having to bear the "guilt" of where they came from? Be it Pakistan or Vietnam.. your identity(and mine soon).. or that of @Syed.Ali.Haider or @MastanKhan is an American. Hence in that light regardless of how bad Pakistani standards or Vietnam or Indian or Timbuktu are.. you or they have the right to ask for a look at American policies, debate potential mistakes.. without the reaction that "look to where you came from first" as the all and final counter argument.

If it was due to say..limitations in technology or monitoring one could say ok..thats the best we can do. But the fact is that the United States DOES have the ACLU.. it does have higher moral standards than any tin pot dictator in Burma.. and most importantly.. it gives the democratic right to Americans to question why such mistakes were made. After all, if the US Senate can hold a hearing on drone strikes in Pakistan and bring in witnesses from Pakistan without saying that look.. the Pakistanis should at themselves first before talking about drone strikes.. It also forms that US policies regarding the middle east or China can be debated without reactionary arguments on say the middle east fixing itself first or otherwise.

The initial premise of the thread was not unjustified in either case. The US has made mistakes in both OEF and OIFF which should not be repeated in the fight against IS..and this is not just a personal opinion by a layman US citizen.. its the opinion of a high ranking military officer. Hence, his word alone should justify the idea that this debate makes sense.

If you really look at it, your previous arguments and those of others replying you.. are more or less emotional rhetoric rather than discussing why something is or was not a mistake or was.

Just as you expect criticism of the US to be leveled where deserved, it is also fair to mention just as prominently that the perpetrators of these crimes mentioned above were apprehended, put on trial and sentenced. Such unavoidable accountability is also part of the American system.

 

[SQ8]

Just as you expect criticism of the US to be leveled where deserved, it is also fair to mention just as prominently that the perpetrators of these crimes mentioned above were apprehended, put on trial and sentenced. Such unavoidable accountability is also part of the American system.

Agreed, but as you can observe.. the initial premise of the topic was the US policy regarding military action against IS. Which I believe the 1st amendment entitles me to discuss.

 

[Armstrong]

Agreed, but as you can observe.. the initial premise of the topic was the US policy regarding military action against IS. Which I believe the 1st amendment entitles me to discuss.

You took up Dual Nationality ?

How can a man love to women (read countries) at the same time ?

 

[SQ8]

You took up Dual Nationality ?

How can a man love to women (read countries) at the same time ?

Easily. My religion permits me so Bhatta.. Four at a time actually.. as long as I do justice to them.. and justice is all I want to do.
However, I intend to defect to my new homeland.. precisely because my former one no longer represents.. nor do its citizens represent the ideals that I grew up to believe in textbooks..
I will mir Jaffer all of you

 

[Armstrong]

Easily. My religion permits me so Bhatta.. Four at a time actually.. as long as I do justice to them.. and justice is all I want to do.
However, I intend to defect to my new homeland.. precisely because my former one no longer represents.. nor do its citizens represent the ideals that I grew up to believe in textbooks..
I will mir Jaffer all of you

If generations of Pakistanis hadn't been leaving Pakistan in search of greener pastures we wouldn't be in such a mess !

I understand the need to have a better life, a more secure life and above all a life of dignity; so I will never say that talking Dual Nationality or settling abroad is wrong....to each his own.

But a part of me thinks that Pakistan has to be worth more than just its ranking on the Social and Economic Development Indices; that the word 'Motherland' has to hold more significance than a mere rise and fall of a country's fortunes.

Maybe its just Idealism....but idealism is all Pakistan is about...init ?

 

[VCheng]

Agreed, but as you can observe.. the initial premise of the topic was the US policy regarding military action against IS. Which I believe the 1st amendment entitles me to discuss.

Of course, let us discuss all we want, but fairly. After all, this whole area will look very different in the next few years.

 

[SQ8]

Maybe its just Idealism....but idealism is all Pakistan is about...init ?

Idealism does not ensure that my family members dont get robbed, beaten, kidnapped, abused, killed.. and to add to that.. where I cant even seek justice for it.