ADB Reports Pakistan's Middle Class Larger Than India's

[riju78]

Riju your government is indeed taking steps and you should argue with logical counter comments. Brushing it under the carpet with angry comments can never solve these problems .


As far as the Farmers' issue is concerned that is serious one and nothing concert is done so far.

I am interested in this issue because we here in Pakistan see more feudalism and primarily due to lack of land reforms here and farmers or landlords having such huge huge huge land. BUT in India they have carried land reforms and by our understanding land reforms should have helped the small farmers but the issue is more grave.





Now if you come up with excuse that these are private loan lenders who are exploiting these Indian farmers then well GoI should take the issue up for solution

If I'm correct goi has written off loans. Coming back to the topic u didn't answer the questions I raised.

 

[Hutchroy]

The Mighty Oracle is right.

India is way behind Pakistan in all respects.

1. India is begging for Debts to be ”Written Off”.

2. India is asking IMF to “Re-structure” Loans.

3. Indian Ministers are Going on Round The World Trips Begging for Money.

3. According to ADB India is unlikely to hit growth target.

4. India’s Foreign Exchange Reserves are One Fourth of its Foreign Exchange Debts.

5. India is now complaining of being a Victim of Terrorists which India created to Terrorize its Eastern Neighbour.

6. Indian Railways is cancelling Thousands of its Passenger Train Services.

7. More than Half of Indian Railways’ Locomotives are awaiting to be scraped in the scrap yard.

The list is Long but the above are the salient points!

 

[jbond197]

The Mighty Oracle is right.

India is way behind Pakistan in all respects.

1. India is begging for Debts to be ”Written Off”.

2. India is asking IMF to “Re-structure” Loans.

3. Indian Ministers are Going on Round The World Trips Begging for Money.

3. According to ADB India is unlikely to hit growth target.

4. India’s Foreign Exchange Reserves are One Fourth of its Foreign Exchange Debts.

5. India is now complaining of being a Victim of Terrorists which India created to Terrorize its Eastern Neighbour.

6. Indian Railways is cancelling Thousands of its Passenger Train Services.

7. More than Half of Indian Railways’ Locomotives are awaiting to be scraped in the scrap yard.

The list is Long but the above are the salient points!

Lol! Here you gave 7 topics to write comparision articles on to RH.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

The Mighty Oracle is right.

India is way behind Pakistan in all respects.

1. India is begging for Debts to be ”Written Off”.

2. India is asking IMF to “Re-structure” Loans.

3. Indian Ministers are Going on Round The World Trips Begging for Money.

3. According to ADB India is unlikely to hit growth target.

4. India’s Foreign Exchange Reserves are One Fourth of its Foreign Exchange Debts.

5. India is now complaining of being a Victim of Terrorists which India created to Terrorize its Eastern Neighbour.

6. Indian Railways is cancelling Thousands of its Passenger Train Services.

7. More than Half of Indian Railways’ Locomotives are awaiting to be scraped in the scrap yard.

The list is Long but the above are the salient points!

This was not necessary ,even if provoked.

We are making it look as if we Indians believe Pakistan can never surpass India in any way.Are we really that pig-headed?

Even if that may not be the intention of many Indians here,but on the whole we end up giving the wrong message.

 

[riju78]

This was not necessary ,even if provoked.

We are making it look as if we Indians believe Pakistan can never surpass India in any way.Are we really that pig-headed?

Even if that may not be the intention of many Indians here,but on the whole we end up giving the wrong message.

Let them overtake us. There is no need to be jealous. But according to Mr haq they have done that already.

 

[ironman]

The other significant news reported by Wall Street Journal today says the vast majority of what is defined as India's middle class is perched just above $2 a day.

Most of this middle class growth in Pakistan occurred on Musharraf's watch.

Haq's Musings: 1999-2009: Pakistan's Decade of Urban Middle Class Growth

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Books/Key_Indicators/2010/pdf/KI2010-Special-Chapter.pdf

Hi Riaz,

Why do you need a Wall Street Journal study? The ADB report itself draws it much accurately. If you compare with Pakistan.

40.12 of its middle class divided into 32.94, 6.56 and 0.62 which earns $2–$4, $4–$10, $10–$20 respectively(Page No:6 of the report).

That means 82% of Pakistan's middle class falls under $2 to $4 earning class same as India.

 

[cricketrulez]

well, i frankly think a government can do jack efficiently. private schools for the poor do better than government ones in india on all parameters.

Could it be becos, they spend more per student than a government school?

its just a matter of a few decades before the private sector growth trickles through to everyone.

Looks like you need to read up some history. how old are you anyway?

Private sector if it could will commoditize everything including human resources and maximize profit for a very select few at the very top.

There no better example than the actions that led to the crash in 2008. If private sector is so f#$$n great why did all the banks need esrious infusion of public cash to stay afloat, when most of the trouble is caused by the private sectors greed.

You'll make very good republican blowhard and No , that is not acompliment

 

[Bhim]

What ever Huthchroy has written is well known by the world.
But we feel there is no need to high light them, as it will only traumatize their pshyche further.
In these troubled times words of sympathy are more important for them.
Writings by RH is only an attempt to satisfy his ailing ego, a perfect example of inferiority complexes.Otherwise how can a person who has never seen India more than out of news channels and fancy movies be so out right in writing such nonsensisical articles and then arguing with hillarious reasoning on their authenticity?

In nut shell I see no reason why we should stoop to that level.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

The Mighty Oracle is right.

India is way behind Pakistan in all respects.

1. India is begging for Debts to be ”Written Off”.

2. India is asking IMF to “Re-structure” Loans.

3. Indian Ministers are Going on Round The World Trips Begging for Money.

3. According to ADB India is unlikely to hit growth target.

4. India’s Foreign Exchange Reserves are One Fourth of its Foreign Exchange Debts.

5. India is now complaining of being a Victim of Terrorists which India created to Terrorize its Eastern Neighbour.

6. Indian Railways is cancelling Thousands of its Passenger Train Services.

7. More than Half of Indian Railways’ Locomotives are awaiting to be scraped in the scrap yard.

The list is Long but the above are the salient points!

^^

This my Pakistani brothers and sisters is the fruit of hapless posting with a veiled attempt at glorifying one's epeen... Needless to say i would urge our Pakistani bothers and sisters to take sanctuary in the ability of time and the power of righteousness to right the wrongs of the past.

Rather than froth at the mouth and rant and rave, we should clean our hands and stand up tall for the task before us, we should empower our youth and strengthen our institutions and infrastructure with ardent resolve.

Alexander of Macedonia once said "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." this pearl of wisdom is very apt for us today. We should empower each other and selflessly dedicate our existence towards the rebuilding and re branding of our nations image in the global arena.

Armed with such actions we can rebuke any tongue in cheek, sly and off the cuff remake about our motherland and it's people. Inshallah if our cause is just, our hearts pure and with divine grace we will succeed in this noble task.

So i urge my fellow Pakistanis on this forum, waste not your time on such worthless discussions, utilise the little time we have in our pathetic existence on this planet to make a difference for the generations to come, my children, your children... Our Children.

Too long have we stood and silently observed the slander of our nations name.... Far too long.

 

[RiazHaq]

The ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released this month confirms that Pakistan's middle class has grown to 40% of the population, significantly larger than the Indian middle class of about 25% of its population, and it has been growing faster than India's middle class. The other significant news reported by Wall Street Journal today says the vast majority of what is defined as India's middle class is perched just above $2 a day, making it vulnerable to various shocks. This is also true of Pakistan.

Here are the details of income levels in India, Pakistan and China as reported by ADB:

Daily Income......$2-$4.......$4-$10........$10-$20.....Over $20

India............20.45%......4.15%........0.45%........0.10%

Pakistan. ... ....32 .94%......6.56%........0.62%........0.15%

China ..........33.97%......25.17%.......3.54%........0.68%

Since 1990, China's middle class population has expanded by 61.4%, Pakistan's by 36.5% and India's by 12.8%.

In terms of absolute numbers in millions of people, China and India are naturally the biggest contributors to the rising population of Asia's middle class that is driving increasing consumption. They are followed by Indonesia and Pakistan vying for the third place.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Growing Middle Class Responds to Challenge

 

[RiazHaq]

The Mighty Oracle is right.

India is way behind Pakistan in all respects.

1. India is begging for Debts to be ”Written Off”.

2. India is asking IMF to “Re-structure” Loans.

3. Indian Ministers are Going on Round The World Trips Begging for Money.

3. According to ADB India is unlikely to hit growth target.

4. India’s Foreign Exchange Reserves are One Fourth of its Foreign Exchange Debts.

5. India is now complaining of being a Victim of Terrorists which India created to Terrorize its Eastern Neighbour.

6. Indian Railways is cancelling Thousands of its Passenger Train Services.

7. More than Half of Indian Railways’ Locomotives are awaiting to be scraped in the scrap yard.

The list is Long but the above are the salient points!

After 63 yeas of independence, it is very unfortunate that economically resurgent India still remains home to the world's largest population of poor, hungry and illiterate people. Tragically, hunger remains India's biggest problem, with an estimated 7000 Indians dying of hunger every single day. Over 200 million Indians will go to bed hungry tonight, as they do every night, according to Bhookh.com. Along with chronic hunger, deep poverty and high illiteracy also continue to blight the lives of hundreds of millions of Indians on a daily basis.

India has the dubious distinction of being among the top ten on two very different lists: It ranks at the top of the nations of the world with its 270 million illiterate adults, the largest in the world, as detailed by a just released UNESCO report on education; India also shows up at number four in military spending in terms of purchasing power parity, behind United States, China and Russia.

Not only is India the lowest among BRIC nations in terms of human development, India is also the only country among the top ten military spenders which, at 134 on a list of 182 nations, ranks near the bottom of the UNDP's human development rankings. Pakistan, at 141, ranks even lower than India.

India also fares badly on the 2009 World Hunger Index, ranking at 65 along with several sub-Saharan nations. Pakistan ranks at 58 on the same index.

A recent Oxford study on multi-dimensional poverty confirmed that Indians are far more deprived than Pakistanis and the poorest of the poor Africans. The study reveals that there are more "MPI poor" people in eight Indian states (421 million in Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh , Orissa, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and West Bengal) than in the 26 poorest African countries combined (410 million).

India is a land where a massive female genocide is unfolding, a system of caste Apartheid flourishes, its minorities are routinely subjected to state-organized massacres, two-thirds of its population defecates in the open, and it leads the world in child marriages and honor killings.

And India still has delusions of grandeur with its massive military budget and unprecedented arms buildup to threaten its neighbors.

Haq's Musings: 63 Years After Independence, India Remains Home to World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates

 

[Developereo]

the above are the salient points!

No, they are irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is about middle class citizens.

In Pakistan we have a saying that the government is poor but the average person is well off. This is because of rampant corruption where hardly anybody pays proper taxes. If Pakistan ever institutes proper tax collection, the government can retire the begging bowl.

 

[karan.1970]

Now that we are getting into a epeen contest. Here goes nothing

After 63 yeas of independence, it is very unfortunate that economically resurgent India still remains home to the world's largest population of poor, hungry and illiterate people. Tragically, hunger remains India's biggest problem, with an estimated 7000 Indians dying of hunger every single day. Over 200 million Indians will go to bed hungry tonight, as they do every night, according to Bhookh.com. Along with chronic hunger, deep poverty and high illiteracy also continue to blight the lives of hundreds of millions of Indians on a daily basis.

And yet, Pakistan has more undernourished adults than India.

India has the dubious distinction of being among the top ten on two very different lists: It ranks at the top of the nations of the world with its 270 million illiterate adults, the largest in the world, as detailed by a just released UNESCO report on education; India also shows up at number four in military spending in terms of purchasing power parity, behind United States, China and Russia.

It is interesting that you chose to ommit that the illiteracy rate among adult Pakistanis is 40% higher than India. Which means if India and Pakistan had same population, there would have been 365 million illiterate adults in Pakistan.

Not only is India the lowest among BRIC nations in terms of human development, India is also the only country among the top ten military spenders which, at 134 on a list of 182 nations, ranks near the bottom of the UNDP's human development rankings. Pakistan, at 141, ranks even lower than India.

You said it here. Also its interesting that despite being lower than India in the UNDP HDR, Pakistan spends more on Defence and less on public health on a per capita basis(India $21 against Pakistan's $8).

India also fares badly on the 2009 World Hunger Index, ranking at 65 along with several sub-Saharan nations. Pakistan ranks at 58 on the same index.

Interesting that despite that, healthy life expectancy in India is about 5% higher than Pakistan and on an average a Pakistani stays unhealthy over 170% of the time that an average Indian stays unhealthy (HRD 2009)

And the fact that under 5 Infant mortality rate in Pakistan is almost double of that in India (6% against 3.4% for India)

A recent Oxford study on multi-dimensional poverty confirmed that Indians are far more deprived than Pakistanis and the poorest of the poor Africans. The study reveals that there are more "MPI poor" people in eight Indian states (421 million in Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh , Orissa, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and West Bengal) than in the 26 poorest African countries combined (410 million).

If you take solace in the fact that Pakistan with its 51% poverty is far less deprived than India with its 55% then congratulations. btw did you also notice that the intensity of poverty among the 51% Pakistanis has been reported to be same , actually a little bit higher (54%) than the intensity of poverty among the 55% Indians (53.5%)


Also this index is using 2005 data for India (leaving out the steep growth curve of last 5 years) and 2007 data for Pakistan (before hell broke loose in Pakistan both economically and socially). Looking forward to a more recent data in next few months and am quite optimistic about it.

India is a land where a massive female genocide is unfolding, a system of caste Apartheid flourishes, its minorities are routinely subjected to state-organized massacres, two-thirds of its population defecates in the open, and it leads the world in child marriages and honor killings.

Yeah! We are way behind where we should be, but since the thread is a comparison thread, India women development index is 10% better than that of Pakistan (HDR 2009) and literacy rate among women is 40% higher than Pakistan (HDR 2009)

Sure we have minority and caste issues, but so has Pakistan with all its sect based killings and discrimination against Ahmedis. I recently heard on a blog similar to yours that the govt rescue boats, are giving preference to actual Muslims(sic) before touching the 1st Ahmedi stranded in the floods. I agree that the credibility of EVERY blog is always suspect, but what is good for Peter, should be good for Paul. Eh?

I am keeping the composite GDP development and Pakistan's need for continuous bailouts and its closeness to the state of bankruptcy out of this discussion since that has been flogged to death in this forum by now.

 

[RiazHaq]

Over the last two decades, Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released recently.

All the hype about Indian education is exposed by the UNDP's Education Index.

UNDP publishes the Education Index which is measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting). The adult literacy rate gives an indication of the ability to read and write, while the GER gives an indication of the level of education from kindergarten to postgraduate education.

On this UNDP education index, Pakistan scores low at 0.665 and ranks 137, but it is still ahead of India's score of 0.638 and ranking of 142nd on a list of 176 nations.

 

[karan.1970]

Over the last two decades, Pakistan has continued to offer much greater upward mobility to its citizens than neighboring India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report on Asia's rising middle class released recently.

All the hype about Indian education is exposed by the UNDP's Education Index.

UNDP publishes the Education Index which is measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting). The adult literacy rate gives an indication of the ability to read and write, while the GER gives an indication of the level of education from kindergarten to postgraduate education.

On this UNDP education index, Pakistan scores low at 0.665 and ranks 137, but it is still ahead of India's score of 0.638 and ranking of 142nd on a list of 176 nations.

Riaz.. After the above mentioned numbers, the HDR 2009 of UNDP released following from eduction pov

Adult Education Ratio: India 66%, Pakistan 54.2%
Combined enrolment ratio in education: India 61%, Pakistan 39%