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Are covert ops the only answer to terrorism??

Is Covert Ops a solution to Terrorism ??

  • Yes - I believe in striking at the head

    Votes: 35 89.7%
  • No - I dont believe as it is not moral

    Votes: 3 7.7%
  • I ve no ideas on wat ur talking about

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Though u ve raised a valid point...wat do u think will be Pakistan's response if ,for example India goes ahead and assasinates Masood Azhar.(Thru some proxy of course)

Do u guys then lob nukes at us for killing that terrorist..?

Wat will be ur response..?



I fail to understand the connection between the above point and the issue at hand.



How will it affect Pakistan's stability by getting rid of those scums..?




Please be clear in understanding every Indian wants a stable peaceful Pakistan on the borders because we very well know that an unstable Pakistan is not good for India.
Secondly I still fail to see how such covert operation thru obvious proxies (taking Azhar thru some disgruntled Shia,taking Dawwod ibrahim thru his rival Chota Rajan,or arranging an accident at a rally) will de-stabilise the region.
If any they will only stabilise the region by getting rid of gangsters and terrorists.
And thirdly if u say killing those terrorists will de-stabilise the region are u indirectly saying that these terrorists are Pakistan's and more specifically ISI's strategic assests and as such eliminating them will damage the relations and bring them to the brink of war.

Covert ops are by definitions done so that the ownership doesnt come to the agency that is supposed to have done them.
W/o proof wat action plan u ll proceed upon..?

I feel you still do not understand the power of "Secular Viloence". You only have to look at Iraq... Need i say more? Appart from the i agree with the bulk of your argument.
 
I feel you still do not understand the power of "Secular Viloence". You only have to look at Iraq... Need i say more? Appart from the i agree with the bulk of your argument.

Please elaborate...:cheers:
 
^

This article published a while back summs it up well:
Sectarian Violence Possible as Iraq Prepares to Vote - TIME

While Syria and Iran play their power game to mould Iraq into their private play thing, what they fail to realise is the power vacum created by such actions only cause fruther problems within the region.

It is very interesting to see how Iran expands its influnce in pockets stragetically througout the country:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22323.pdf

BBC News - US fears Iranian influence in Iraq

As you can see, whilst this would initially play to Iran's strategic advantage, in the longer run, such a policy is not sustainable and causes further problems for the region and iran herself.
 
^

This article published a while back summs it up well:
Sectarian Violence Possible as Iraq Prepares to Vote - TIME

While Syria and Iran play their power game to mould Iraq into their private play thing, what they fail to realise is the power vacum created by such actions only cause fruther problems within the region.

It is very interesting to see how Iran expands its influnce in pockets stragetically througout the country:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22323.pdf

BBC News - US fears Iranian influence in Iraq

As you can see, whilst this would initially play to Iran's strategic advantage, in the longer run, such a policy is not sustainable and causes further problems for the region and iran herself.


Okay u were talking abt secterian violence...? I thought Secular violence and was confused a lil bit.
Yes i agree with the article.But may i point out to u that Pakistan and Iraq are not similar in the sense they dont have a relatively equal Shhia nd Sunni population.

Shias are a total minority in a Sunni majority country.
So we r not promoting a secterian violence in Pakistan as it is more harmful than beneficial tio India.

wat im saying is identify a affected,disgruntled Shia youth and use him to take out masood Azhar,or say Hafiz sayeed.

It is nowere akin to wat Iran,Syria doesn in Iraq.Just a targeted killing and putting the blame on the repressed Shia minority.
 
No never do it...Pakistan is suffering today in the hands of Allah the great, because Pakistan is responsible for the death of poor innocents in mumbai 26/11..see that countries plight...They even has to borrow money from Worldbank..whom India is a contributor....alah is blessing INDIA more...Allah ignores Pakistan for its attempting to cut India thousand pieces, so india should even disband its operations in Pakistan, because Allah will take care of that..India is a super power today of INSHANALLA..I wish to see a muslim in moon via an Indian spacecraft..
 
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I think the pro-active method employed by the Isrealis is a very good idea as long as you are 100% sure of who you are taking out otherwise you run the risk of further fueling hatred towards you. Additionally does India have the reach and capability to do such raids through RAW or spec ops, whatever. Also how likely is India to start to engage in these operations? How many times does India have to be provoked before it acts.

Death by a thousand cuts.

A few points:

1) India does have a strong and substantial covert operations capability; it is a known fact that the Khalistani insurgency in India has reached such a high proportion that the Indian Government had to go for a similar kind of pay back scheme.

During the rule of Gen Zia Pakistan had started to raise, instigate and fund the separatist movement, this time in Punjab. Of course the Indian security agencies have played their part to try and keep it to its minimum but of course things werent so easy. You had the Kanishka bimbing case where hundreds died over sea.

The point it Pakistan had deemed it fit to try and stir a thng or two in Indian state of Punjab. Add to that the fact that thousands of Sikh pilgrims regularly visit Pakistan for places like Nankana Saheb and Lahore. So Pakistan played its part.

Of course then things started changing for the good. India retaliated in kind and late 80s and early 90s the Govt of India had already pieced together a very powerful and credible covert operations capability (does not mean it never had it before), the only difference being it became the policyhenceforth that to stop this India must also do the same.

Resultantly RAW started a covert campaign of bombing sensitive areas of Pakistan like Karachi and Lahore, through a series of low intensity strikes, till it was a message loud enough for Benazir Sahiba to stop funding the separatist movement in Punjab and come to the same terms as India was demanding.

Till Mr IK Gujral (born in modern day Pakistan) came to power in 1990s our covert operations were very strong and the Govt did not make any compromise to reply in kind. But unfortunately he ordered closing/ramping down of all covert operations capabilities in Pakistan, which India had painstakingly put together in so many preceeding decades.

So Counter Intelligence Team X and J need to be provided with funds to carry on the activities that is their bread and butter.

2) @ illuminatidinesh - The NSG is not involved in subversive activities beyond enemy lines and similarly Marcos is also not involved.

3) @☪☪☪☪ Please be aware that covert operations by definition and logic is something that is Deniable (This is an important word)

4) The entire debate in India as of today is not the question of morality or anything of that sort. It is the question of whether India should also pay back in the same coin? Additionally the issues is of making the perennial Paksitani support of terrorism directed towards India so PROHIBITIVELY costly/expensive that there is only one way to go and that is backwards..

If the answer is yes then India must go full throttle forward with this


My opinion:

India must call the bluff now and start gathering intelligence within the closed frontiers. I am sure the PMO can easily set up the asset infrastructure again and start the covert operations without delay.

Particularly so when Pakistan is not in the pink of health, with the hydra headed monster of sectarian violence rearinf up its ugly head, theres a full scale war in the northwest and secssionist movement in Balochistan (I am talking as the people in this business do, please do not take me wrong)

Secondly whether you do covert operations or not Pakistan's line of action will remain so for the foreseeable future, so why the moral high ground saying something stupid that there is a difference between them and us and that the difference should remain... abd related blah blah..

Finally a few thing of caution:

a) It is very difficult to maintain deniability in such operations, so please be discrete to the extent possible.

b) Look for expendable assets for taking out targets

c) Try to avoid civilian casualties and collateral damage by such operations, as an Indian we do not WANT a failed assasination attempt on the lines of Ali Hassan Salameh..

my two cents..please feel free to agree or disagree...:usflag:
 
☪☪☪☪;922935 said:
You could try but the retaliation won't be easy to bear.That's why the spy agencies usually don't kill each other agents because they fear that this way proxy war within their agencies will start and hence they will start killing each other.Israel does it because they know they don't have a matching rival in Arab Countries so they have free reign.Yeah I am sure we are scared of your threats...:lol: Pakistan Intel Agencies fought covert and proxy wars with Soviet Union which had a agency which could take out entire RAW in few weeks (KGB) but were Pakistanis Generals Scared?NO they fought and KGB was disbanded in 1991 while ISI is still here..and don't give me terrorism bullshit..if you take action in Pakistan expect a more then fitting reply..and you are more then welcome to try but reality check: You don't have the capability to do so.

Im not so proud of what we are doing to each other but just a thought on the bold part.
The day after the last attack on the indian embassy in kabul and car laden with huge amounts of ecplosives exploded in pakistan's peshwar killing more than double(92+) killed in indian embassy in afghan.Donot talk of capabilities and resources and yes donot temme what ISI did to KGB,its like putting your foot in your mouth with out CIA ISI was notthing in communist Afghan.
 
You are seriously not comparing your ISI to the mighty KGB. If you went alone the KGB would have eaten ISI for breakfast. In Afghanistan it was essentially CIA against KGB. As Americans want deniability they just used ISI as a front for their operations or in other words ISI was just the delivery boy for CIA. If it was not for the American support and KSA money the Russian bear would have been still sitting on your borders.

Mark my words the bear will soon be seen on the western pakistani borders.It wont be so easy for pak to etablish Taliban as it did after 1990 cause USSR was broken and India was not so strong at that moment of time but now the Bear is out of hybernation and is hungry:sniper::sniper:
Nato leaves and in 1 decade that area will be dominated by russia by putting india as poster boys and kinda joint venture:azn::azn:.And this is the only way afghan can grow economically and be come a country in reality not only on paper..
 

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