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Arjun News & Discussions

Buddy - the .5 RCS was mentioned by the Russian Prime Minister or President. It was all over the news. I understand your point though, it could be that this guy might not be as unbiased as everyone thinks him to be but then he does come out with information which can be labelled as "90% CORRECT".

Lets wait for the official news I believe. But still if we go by his word and your and mine understanding of his posts then I think its best to say that Arjun is at least comparable to the T-90 and if that is the case then we can deduce that it is most definitely better than T-72.

It was neither of them, Shukula claims it was from a "mod", the actual rcs is classified, i also remember when someone reported that the concept pics of the pak-fa with delta wings were "very close to the real thing" they claimed a Sukhoi employee said so, of course we now know that was completely false.
 
General Characteristics of MBT Arjun and T-90S
Battle tank design is an optimization of the three basic characteristics viz. firepower, mobility and protection. All tanks are designed in accordance with the war doctrine of the country and to ensure operation over a range of environmental conditions. Arjun MBT is a state of art tank, developed to suite specific needs of Indian Army. Arjun MBT is on par with contemporary tanks in its class like M1 Abrams, Leopard 2, Leclerc and Challenger II. T-90S is a lighter tank and does not fall in the class of Arjun MBT. T-90S is designed in accordance to specifications of the Russian Army and Russian cold climate. Both Arjun MBT and T-90S can be transported to Indian border areas by rail throughout the National Broad Gauge network.



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Arjun MBT’s Hydro Pneumatic Suspension system provides a stable weapon platform which enhances the fire on move capability and excellent riding comfort during cross country move. The Indian borders in north and west are very rugged. Arjun MBT has less Nominal Ground Pressure (NGP) compared to T-90S. Arjun MBT has better acceleration and maximum road speed due to high peak torque output of the engine coupled with fully automatic transmission not withstanding “slightly” lower power to weight ratio. Automatic transmission provides neutral turn capability which adds to the maneuverability during shoot and scoot. Arjun MBT features Auxiliary Power Units (APU) which T-90S does not have. APU’s provide continuous operation in silent watch mode. It also saves main engine life. Rubberized double pin tracks provide increased life, reduced track noise and better maintainability. Arjun MBT’s mission reliability has been proved with 500 kms being covered in 48 hours. Arjun MBT successfully crossed the RAVI River at Lassian without support systems due to lower ground pressure. Trench crossing capability of Arjun MBT is on par with T-90S as Arjun MBT has seven bogie stations compared to six bogie stations of T-90S


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Firing performance of Arjun MBT is superior to T-90S in terms of accuracy (both static and dynamic situations) due to gun ammunition combination and high order of weapon stabilization coupled with auto collimated MRS. Auto collimated MRS compensates for the barrel bend. Firing performance of Arjun MBT and T-90S is same in terms of defeat capability and rate of firing. Two axis stabilized commander’s panoramic sight integrated with gunners main sight provides “hunter killer” capability both in static as dynamic mode (moving to moving mode). Higher order of stabilization accuracy enables accurate fire on the move at a moving target while maintaining the stipulated fire rate. The commander of Arjun MBT can engage targets in case of emergency, capable of firing at various slopes and tilt angles. First round hits probability has been demonstrated for MBT Arjun on a 1 mil target and greater than 60% hit percentage when firing from a moving Arjun tank to a moving target, both at 25 km/h.
LAHAT (semi automatic homing) Missile firing from Arjun MBT has been already demonstrated using a stand alone Laser Target Designator (LTD). This designator can be integrated into Gunner’s Main Sight (GMS). T-90S can fire Laser bean riding missile..
Arjun MBT armament system including gun barrel has been proved to be robust and reliable No case of barrel burst was reported even after firing 10000 rounds. The Arjun MBT prototypes and pre production tanks fired more than 100 rounds from the same barrel in a day. Life of barrel of Arjun MBT is twice that of T-90S, estimate equivalent in Effective Full Charge (EFC) of 500.


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Protection of MBT Arjun against FSAPDS and HESH ammunitions has been demonstrated. In January 2000 at Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE), Balasore, Arjun tank armor defeated all available HESH and FSAPDS rounds including Israeli FSAPDS rounds. ERA is effective only against HEAT ammunition and not FSAPDS which is the primary threat to a battle tank. Arjun Tank has ERA protection as add on feature, while T-90S has it as a regular feature. A tank with ERA has a weight penalty.
Outcome
Indian Army has not expressed the purpose of this exercise. It can be various reasons like a genuine requirement of validating its GSQR which resulted in creation of a heavy tank or the Indian Army internal rivalry or the pressure from the import lobby to kill the indigenous Arjun MBT project. It will be the test of Indian Army’s own integrity as Arjun MBT was made as per the Indian Army General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR), tested by Indian Army and approved for production by Indian Army.




:sniper:
 
A news that could be interesting in regard of IA too!

Russia may unveil new 'super-tank' in summer 2010

Russia's new main battle tank (MBT), the T-95, could be exhibited for the first time at an arms show in the Urals Region this summer, the developer and future manufacturer of the tank has said.

The development of the new tank dubbed "Item 195" began at the Uralvagonzavod design bureau in the early 1990s. Russia will become the first country in the world to have the 5th-generartion MBT if the military commissions the vehicle.

"The work on the project has been conducted for many years. If the government gives us a 'green light' we will exhibit the tank at the [Russian Expo Arms 2010] arms show in Nizhny Tagil this summer," general director of the Uralvagonzavod plant Oleg Siyenko told RIA Novosti in an exclusive interview.

"I cannot disclose the characteristics of the tank, but I can assure you that we have met all the requirements put forward by the military," he said.

According to unofficial sources, the T-95 will feature better firepower, maneuverability, electronics and armor protection than Russia's latest T-90 MBT or comparable foreign models.

It will weigh about 55 tons and its speed will increase from 30-50 kph to 50-65 kph (19-31 mph to 31-40 mph).

The new tank may be equipped with a 152-mm smoothbore gun capable of firing guided missiles with a range of 6,000-7,000 meters.

In contrast to existing designs, the gun will be located in a remotely-controlled turret to improve 3-men crew survivability.

Meanwhile, the T-90 MBT, developed in the 1990s on the basis of the T-72B tank, will be the backbone of the armored units until 2025, according to the Russian military.

Russia currently produces up to 100 T-90 MBTs annually and plans to have at least 1,500 vehicles in service with the Ground Forces.

MOSCOW, March 26 (RIA Novosti)

Russia may unveil new 'super-tank' in summer 2010 | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire


Although this sounds like an interesting future tank, it normally can't be interesting for IA, because it seems to be pretty much in the class of Arjun, with similar weight!
One of the reasons of IA against Arjun was, that it is to heavy and don't fit to the logistics to deploy tanks as fast as possible around the country, which are aimed on tanks in the T90 class. So even if the T95 would be a hell of a tank, it would face the same problems and IA must take the same cons against it as against Arjun. Will be interesting to see, if their opinion will remain the same, or suddenly change!
 
Because we will die with those dollars if china lands its heavy tanks in pakistan or america either donates or itself fields the abrams in pakistan. Only defence is Arjun.

Please bear with my lack of Knowledge about defence however are you saying that out of blue moon Pakistan will get these heavy tanks, induct them and have there crews get trained on them in no time???? Buddy these are tanks and not toys....Secondly i am not saying that do not induct Arjuns...Induct them but in a number which make sense...

Kickbacks or no kickbacks i have faith in my Army top brass that when they went for T-90 they were satisfied that this tank is good enough for our current threat perceptions...

As far as i know Pakistan MBT is Al-Khalid and seems like they are happy with it. As far as i know its not a joke to change your MBT like this... Believe me i would like to have our Army the best however we need to spend money wisely...The need of the hour is Artillery Guns where our Army suffered the most due to Bofors scandal...

To Conclude : Induct enough Arjuns to protect our areas where T-90 have some limitations...Ensure we have better communication between Army and DRDO and invest heavily on Arjun MKII which is going to be our FMBT....



Tinpot 90/72 are firetraps
Not sure about this...As far as i know T-90 is a very potent tank...

and wars dont announce 3 yrs before happening.
You are right...but same is not true with induction of weaponary...It definitely takes lot of time and planning..B/w Arjun is our own tank if need be we can always start the prodcution lines for more tanks in case our adversaries went for better tanks and Arjun is fit enough to counter them...

Already Pakistan is huddled with U.S as we are writing this and china is always there to make life miserable for us.This money that we spend nobody likes but truth is we desperately need Arjun with america or china landing in pakistan any moment. The geopolitical situation is very bad with americas financial problems and history shows that whenever confronted by this situation america goes to war. Ahmedinajad is saying that real target of america in pakistan is india or china.He might be a nutcase but is president of Iran.When he talks world listens. America is also pressurizing us on kashmir and because of which these Aman Ki asha talks have started. I have link on this if u are interested or google "India shall not lose its grip‎"

No offence but we don't need to be paranoid here....Defence don't work like this...One has to ensure that nation is safe but a poor nation like india cannot afford to be on a high horse and keep ivesting in weapons which are not justified as per our threat perception....I would like to point you to our PM latest remark..."Don't bank on High Growth"...We need to ensure whatever we spend we spend it wisely....Arjun is a great tank ...i don't have iota of doubt in it...however it came pretty late in the game...We have already ordered T-90 on major scale...and want to upgrade out T-72 to T-90 level...Cost per upgrade is 4 crores...Cost per Arjun is 12 crores...In other words for every Arjun we can upgrade 3 T-72...So IMO how much it hurt but truth is Arjun cannot be our MBT in its present form...It newer version should surely be our FMBT
 
India's own Arjun tank is finally proving its worth. Despite continuing criticism from an army establishment that judges the Arjun far more strictly than foreign purchases like the T-90, the Arjun is successfully completing a gruelling 5,000-kilometre trial in the Rajasthan desert.
During six months of trials, the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), along with tank crews from the army's 43 Armoured Regiment, have proved not just the Arjun's endurance, but also the ability of its computer-controlled gun to consistently blow away suitcase-sized targets placed more than a kilometre away.

The army's Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which must eventually okay the tank, is not impressed but key decision-makers are rallying behind the Arjun.

The head of the Pune-based Southern Command, Lieutenant General N Thamburaj, strongly backs the Arjun. On a visit to the Mahajan Field Firing Ranges in Rajasthan to watch his troops exercising, Lt Gen Thamburaj noticed the Arjun firing nearby.

After walking across, he was invited by the DRDO team to drive and fire the tank. Half an hour later, the general was an Arjun backer; two holes in the target he aimed at testified that a soldier without previous experience operating tanks could get into the Arjun and use it effectively.

Business Standard has evidence of many more such incidents. On June 29, 2006, the commander of the elite 33 Armoured Division, Major General BS Grewal, visited the Mahajan Ranges along with a colleague, Major General Shiv Jaswal. Both drove and fired the Arjun for the first time that day; the two rounds that each fired punched holes through targets almost two kilometres away.

That same month, 43 Armoured Regiment, which is the first army tank unit equipped with the Arjun, pronounced itself delighted with the Arjun's firing performance. After firing trials in summer 2006, 43 Armoured Regiment endorsed: "The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun have been proved beyond doubt."

But the establishment was quick to strike back. Barely three months after that report, the commanding officer of 43 Armoured Regiment, Colonel D Thakur, was confronted by the then Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen DS Shekhawat. Eyewitnesses describe how he was upbraided for "not conducting the trials properly". But in a career-threatening display of professional integrity, Colonel Thakur's brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, intervened to insist that the trials had been conducted correctly.

In a series of interviews with the army, including the present Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj, and with the MoD top brass, Business Standard has learned that opposition to the Arjun remains deeply entrenched. This despite the soldiers of 43 Armoured Regiment declaring that if it came to war, they would like to be in an Arjun.

Minister of State for Defence Production, Rao Inderjeet Singh recounts: "I've spoken, off the record, to officers who have gone through the trials. Even the crews (from 43 Armoured Regiment)… who have been testing the tank… I forced them to choose between the Russian tanks and the Arjun.

I said, you've driven this tank and you've driven that tank (the T-90). Now mark them out of ten, which tank is better? And I've found that the Arjun tank was given more numbers than the T-90 tank."

With new confidence, the Arjun's developer, the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), is arguing strongly for "comparative trials", in which the Arjun would be pitted head-to-head, in identical conditions, with the army's T-90 and T-72 tanks. But the DGMF continues to resist any such face-off.:sniper::sniper:
 
First video of a new generation tank T-95 we will see this summer. :cheers:

The main hope for the future, the army, however, imposes on the tank is the next generation, which eventually will replace the troops of former car models and will complement the T-90. The new tank, known as "object 195" and T-95, developed for many years, but detailed information about it still remain secret. Commenting about the T-95, CEO UVZ, where he developed and will be produced this car, said:

"Work on the project has been going on for many years. We have, unfortunately, today there are some problems with our suppliers of components which have a backlog, both in the quality and level of production. We are working to resolve this problem ourselves - our engineers are developing new sites and aggregates, as for a fundamentally new car, and for the intermediate. If the government allows us, the first sample of the new tank can be represented by the arms salon in Nizhny Tagil in the summer.

The characteristics of this machine, I can not reveal, however, emphasize that we fully met the technical requirements and fulfilling all the requirements of the military.

So worth the wait of the summer - and, most likely, you will see a new car."

If the demonstration of T-95 at the exhibition will be held in Nizhny Tagil, Russia will become the first country which produces public tank fifth generation. And this machine should surpass all their predecessors and competitors.

Despite the secrecy, some information about the T-95 still breaks out. So, with a high degree of confidence we can assume that the weight machines will be in the area of 55 tons, the tower will be uninhabitable, but as a tank main armament will have 152-mm cannon capable of firing as conventional ammunition and guided missiles.
 
May be colombia will place orders now.they had requested for info abt the tank .
 
having the same weight as that of arjun tank it will be interesting if the army is excited about the t95
 

These 4-th generation tanks of their parameters are shoulder to shoulder, differing mainly in the weight category. Interestingly, what the designers of T-95 tank is meant by the fifth generation? There was whether the environment expert consensus on the requirements to be met by the tanks of the fifth generation?
 
this must be raw propaganda :P

The issue, despite the optimistic news, is that transport of these tanks remains a hurdle for the rolling stock and the transportation infrastructure in place.

The Arjun can be a fantastic tank as per a certain set of specifications, however if it does not meet the basic requirements set forth as a result of observations from past experience in armoured warfare between Pakistan and India, it would have very limited benefit for the IA.

Problems with FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling (all are issues that have cropped up with Arjun in the past), will at one point be rectified after spending money and potentially changing some of the laid down requirements by your general staff. The question to ask at that point is, how many of the basic and core requirements could be sacrificed to get to say that the tank is ready?

Reading through the various articles and also the purported views of an IA officer involved up close, it seems even now, despite the "stellar" performance against the T-90, the tank has found only qualified acceptance, which means that the original raison d'être of this vehicle; the MBT of the IA will never be fulfilled.

Had that goal been achieved, IA would have seen this tank being inducted not in the hundreds but potentially in the thousands.
 
The issue, despite the optimistic news, is that transport of these tanks remains a hurdle for the rolling stock and the transportation infrastructure in place.

The Arjun can be a fantastic tank as per a certain set of specifications, however if it does not meet the basic requirements set forth as a result of observations from past experience in armoured warfare between Pakistan and India, it would have very limited benefit for the IA.

Problems with FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling (all are issues that have cropped up with Arjun in the past), will at one point be rectified after spending money and potentially changing some of the laid down requirements by your general staff. The question to ask at that point is, how many of the basic and core requirements could be sacrificed to get to say that the tank is ready?

Reading through the various articles and also the purported views of an IA officer involved up close, it seems even now, despite the "stellar" performance against the T-90, the tank has found only qualified acceptance, which means that the original raison d'être of this vehicle; the MBT of the IA will never be fulfilled.

Had that goal been achieved, IA would have seen this tank being inducted not in the hundreds but potentially in the thousands.

If there is still something missing that the army wanted, the blame goes to army. It should have taken active participation in tank development. And if it has, how come the tank lacks anything that they wanted??!!

The biggest problem is, if army starts inducting tank now, they would be outdated before completing their full life. T 90 order are in place. T 72 can be heavily upgraded at an economical price. Both can fulfill the current needs of army. Than why to go for one more tank?
 
The issue, despite the optimistic news, is that transport of these tanks remains a hurdle for the rolling stock and the transportation infrastructure in place.

The Arjun can be a fantastic tank as per a certain set of specifications, however if it does not meet the basic requirements set forth as a result of observations from past experience in armoured warfare between Pakistan and India, it would have very limited benefit for the IA.

Problems with FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling (all are issues that have cropped up with Arjun in the past), will at one point be rectified after spending money and potentially changing some of the laid down requirements by your general staff. The question to ask at that point is, how many of the basic and core requirements could be sacrificed to get to say that the tank is ready?

Reading through the various articles and also the purported views of an IA officer involved up close, it seems even now, despite the "stellar" performance against the T-90, the tank has found only qualified acceptance, which means that the original raison d'être of this vehicle; the MBT of the IA will never be fulfilled.

Had that goal been achieved, IA would have seen this tank being inducted not in the hundreds but potentially in the thousands.

Most of the problems such as FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling are now sorted out now the Army cite's Logistics but the bottom line is that the all the requirements were laid out by the army in form of GSQR in the fear that Pakistan might acquire M1's from US.Now the Army doesn't want the thing since the deal never happened.I would dare say Army pretty much fkd up the things.
 
Most of the problems such as FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling are now sorted out now the Army cite's Logistics but the bottom line is that the all the requirements were laid out by the army in form of GSQR in the fear that Pakistan might acquire M1's from US.Now the Army doesn't want the thing since the deal never happened.I would dare say Army pretty much fkd up the things.

Thanks. Pride aside, the tank may be excellent, but for a set of requirements that have changed.

Also keep in mind that the Arjun program predates any Pakistani interest in the Abrams (that too was shoved down our throats and fortunately for Pakistan, did not materialize). The Abrams was offered to Pakistan around 87-88 time frame. The GSRs for Arjun to evolve into a heavy MBT tank, along the lines of development that was taking place in the NATO armies at the height of cold war, had already happened in the 75-80 time frame, long time before Pakistan considered the Abrams.
 
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The issue, despite the optimistic news, is that transport of these tanks remains a hurdle for the rolling stock and the transportation infrastructure in place.

The Arjun can be a fantastic tank as per a certain set of specifications, however if it does not meet the basic requirements set forth as a result of observations from past experience in armoured warfare between Pakistan and India, it would have very limited benefit for the IA.

Problems with FCS, suspension, propulsion, cooling (all are issues that have cropped up with Arjun in the past), will at one point be rectified after spending money and potentially changing some of the laid down requirements by your general staff. The question to ask at that point is, how many of the basic and core requirements could be sacrificed to get to say that the tank is ready?

Reading through the various articles and also the purported views of an IA officer involved up close, it seems even now, despite the "stellar" performance against the T-90, the tank has found only qualified acceptance, which means that the original raison d'être of this vehicle; the MBT of the IA will never be fulfilled.

Had that goal been achieved, IA would have seen this tank being inducted not in the hundreds but potentially in the thousands.

I agree. However, you forgot Indian Bureaucracy, which is like a pain in the you know what.

If India sets eyes on some ripe and tasty mangoes, the GoI will order them when just the rotten ones are left.
 

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