What's new

Blasphemy Charged for Recieving Text Message

We Pakistanis need to realize that whatever anyone SAYS or WRITES does not make it the truth. As long as your faith is strong, and as long as you have enough faith in your faith you have nothing to worry about.

I mean people who cry about blasphemy every now and then must think their religion is really weak otherwise they won't be worried about what other preach but be more concerned with the wrong things that preached by their own followers.

We Pakistanis are ill with the disease to impose their beliefs onto others. Don't search for new ways to fight, search for cures. And remember each and every Pakistani is an EQUAL Pakistani, no Muslim Pakistani is better than a Christian Pakistani in the eyes of a secular Pakistani government as it should be - draconian laws notwithstanding.
 
Dear Gazzi i feel your getting totally off topic in all your discussions. This thread is about the Blasphemy law on a individual due to the text message.

We do not need to know how whether people get converted to Christianity with food and blankets or whether blasphemy law is applied on thousands of innocents in Saudi Arabia and they get pardoned from death sentence if they convert to Islam. This is not the topic discussed here.

I have noticed most of your posts have the tendency to instantly make assumptions on individuals and countries. like calling gandi a racist and fascist. May i ask who are you to judge another? Do you posses some supernatural power.

I may not be native english speaker like yourself but it would be nice that you begin a sentence IMO or IMHO rather than directly judging people.

Apologies if i sound hard or direct. Dont mean in a bad way. Just that we are all going off topic.

Jumeirah, You too appear to target only those which suits you best. I was answering to the below comment made whcih once raised requires an answer, unless you wish to answer it.

Okay Gazzi!!!! If Missionaries are converting Muslims and Hindus to Christianity then whats the problem??? I dont think there should be any problem! everyone is given a free will by God to pratice the religion of their choice!!! You are living in UK, In UK there are also many Muslim preachers who are preaching Islam and are converting Christians to Muslims......same with other western countries including USA!!!! are they stopped??? NO.....and you know why??? because we trust in Christianity! You Muslims are free to preach in Western Countries but Missionaries do not have permission to preach in pakistan! Can you tell me why is that????

And one more thing about Hector Aleem!!!! why do ya think that the unjust courts of pakistan can do a fair trial???? they DONT.....Hector Aleem says that he is not a coward person to leave Pakistan!!!! He will work in Pakistan, there are lots of things to be worked on but extremist dont want him to work here!!! Because they have a narrow mind!!! Like GAZZI said that Missionaries are here to preach Christianity extremists also says that Hector Aleem is here to preach Christianity!!! and If he is preaching Christianity then whats the problem????? Muslims in western countries preach Islam!! they are not stopped then why here???????


So please, stop your pathetic attack on anyone who disagrees with you, and by the way, I have provided a wealth of knowledge to put forward my explanation with regards to Gandhi, please use that thread to make your reference with evidence please, as I have done there. Your personal style attack will achieve nothing.
 
I apologize Gazzi. I agree that i have targeted what suits me best in some topics. I have been moving with the general flow here. I am not perfect and will try and change for the better of the forum. cheers
 
We Pakistanis need to realize that whatever anyone SAYS or WRITES does not make it the truth. As long as your faith is strong, and as long as you have enough faith in your faith you have nothing to worry about.

I mean people who cry about blasphemy every now and then must think their religion is really weak otherwise they won't be worried about what other preach but be more concerned with the wrong things that preached by their own followers.

We Pakistanis are ill with the disease to impose their beliefs onto others. Don't search for new ways to fight, search for cures. And remember each and every Pakistani is an EQUAL Pakistani, no Muslim Pakistani is better than a Christian Pakistani in the eyes of a secular Pakistani government as it should be - draconian laws notwithstanding.

Going further from this and my previous answer with regards to Mastankhan I have gone through the Quranic verses carefully and found some strong basis to support that "blasphemy laws" may not even exist in Islamic Shariah, see below:

"Have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity)." [Quran 73:10]

". . . when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell." [Quran 4:140]

"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Quran 7:199]

"But they uttered blasphemy ... if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Quran 9:47]

Allah is with those who restrain themselves . . . ." [Quran 16: 128]

"Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy." [Quran 20:130]

"And the servants of Allah ... are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'!" [Quran 25:63]

"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: 'To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.'" [Quran 28: 55]

"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah. It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned." [Quran 45:14]

"Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting." [Quran 50:39]

-------------

From the above, patience is asked for of Muslims time and time again. This should be a source Pakistanis throughout need to eflect on and bring the whole issue of blasphemy to debate
 
Jumeirah, You too appear to target only those which suits you best. I was answering to the below comment made whcih once raised requires an answer, unless you wish to answer it.






So please, stop your pathetic attack on anyone who disagrees with you, and by the way, I have provided a wealth of knowledge to put forward my explanation with regards to Gandhi, please use that thread to make your reference with evidence please, as I have done there. Your personal style attack will achieve nothing.

On a another subject. Regarding Gandi you have not provided any evidence. You have not lived in the sub continent in those times and your info is what you read in media, books etc and ultimately what suits you best to digest.
 
On a another subject. Regarding Gandi you have not provided any evidence. You have not lived in the sub continent in those times and your info is what you read in media, books etc and ultimately what suits you best to digest.

Not going to discuss that here........please go to the thread
 
Going further from this and my previous answer with regards to Mastankhan I have gone through the Quranic verses carefully and found some strong basis to support that "blasphemy laws" may not even exist in Islamic Shariah, see below:

"Have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity)." [Quran 73:10]

". . . when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell." [Quran 4:140]

"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Quran 7:199]

"But they uttered blasphemy ... if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Quran 9:47]

Allah is with those who restrain themselves . . . ." [Quran 16: 128]

"Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy." [Quran 20:130]

"And the servants of Allah ... are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'!" [Quran 25:63]

"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: 'To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.'" [Quran 28: 55]

"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah. It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned." [Quran 45:14]

"Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting." [Quran 50:39]

-------------

From the above, patience is asked for of Muslims time and time again. This should be a source Pakistanis throughout need to eflect on and bring the whole issue of blasphemy to debate
The point should be clear to all self-thinking Pakistanis. You don't just have to be patient till they convert to Islam, but be tolerant of anyone's criticism to Islam. Agreeably, its not nice but if someone does so its your right to fight back with words, not violence. Its your right to defend their criticism, or criticize back not kill in response to that criticism.

I don't see how any service can be done to Islam by making it so easy to kill in the name of it. I would think it would turn people away from Islam in this day and age, killers (especially that are responding to mere words) are not seen kindly by all of humanity.

Only when we develop a thicker skin, be courageous enough, be daring enough to break the traditional bonds that this so-called Islam has bound us in, is when we will be able to actually serve our nation.

Who knows if Hector Aleem sent any SMS message or not? Who knows what he wrote. If anyone doesn't like it, hit the delete button. Judge it for yourself, this entire incident... Its been good for Pakistan or bad?
 
I have found all but one verse which comes remotely close to what the Mullah sahibs may be using as their tool to support a blasphemy law. But in the context it doesn't support anything close to what they are using it for.

This verse refers to battle and war times and not insults.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter —Quran 5:33

I think this blasphemy law needs some serious reviewing. I cannot believe that a single verse taken out of context can justify this is statute. Surely something else must have been presented.

-------------

Me personally, I would have sent a text back telling him "wrong number" and left it to that.
 
I am going to retire for the night. however, will pick this issue up again in the morning and discuss the matter with a maulana and scholars here in the UK. If this law is a stain on Muslims then will put together an account on facebook as a petition and link it to the Pakistan Embassy and request some action from here in the UK, with regards to Muslim Peers in the House of Lords and house of Parliament in london to raise topic with Pakistan Government otherwise this will be an insult to my faith and my Country.

I will however be requesting signatures from people at that time from forum members also on facebook or twitter and will get it well known around the world.
 
Gazzi,

God bless you my man for taking the time to do some foot work.




I am a firm believer of the fact that islam the religion, follows the path and guidelines of simple and basic humanity---where human life, civil rights and civil liberties, justice for one and for all comes first and foremost.

Where the rights of the weak and the minorities are fervently protected and great emphasis placed on their wel-being. Amongst the weak maybe the poor, the physically disabled, the old, the women folk, less fortunate people regardless of their race, religion, color or creed---they maybe muslims or they maybe non-muslims.

The practise of the caliphs of islam shows that the religion islam believes in the firm and expedienct justice---justice delayed is justice denied. This is the fundamental belief of the religion islam--equality in belief and justice for one---justice for all.

Equality of belief means that at the time of prayer---there is no place reserved for me at the mosque due to the position of my status---and when I bow down to my Lord and put my head down on the mat in submission, I care less who's feet are at my face---.

Equality of justice means that anyone who is agrieved can ask to seek justice against the high and the mighty---without prejudice.

These are the basic fundamentals of the religion islam---these are the foundation stones of the belief---this is where the five pillars of islam are erected upon---over the period of time---over the centuries----either the foundations have been buried deep in dirt or have been eroded by the winds of time and deterioration---as they have become invisible, people had started assuming that it was the five pillars which need to be practised to hold up the roof. Tragically, they were in error.

Today, the pillars of islam are on a shaky grounds---and the muslims of the whole of this world are running around like a chicken with its head chopped of---tell me of one nation of islam, where there is justice provided to one and sundry----one nation---anyone---name one nation---one nation that can say---yes we are trying our very best to be just to the society----anyone can put a hand on their hearts and look in the mirror and say truthfully---I am being just---I am for justice---I am for equality---I preach justice and equality for every pakistani.

We have at least ten thousand muslim pakistani members on this board---anyone---including me---can make this claim. I very much doubt it. I am also ashamed and embarrassed at myself for failing to my own standings.

I want you, the young people, look yourself in your eyes, in the mirror and see what the truth is, that lies behind those eyes. You know what is in your soul, you know what is in your mind, you know what is in your heart---do you believe in the equality of man regardless of race, color religion or creed.

Let me ask you this---has anyone of you ever shaken hand with the sweeper that comes to your house in pakistan---have anyone ever hugged him---I am not talking about the sweepress---ok.
 
Jumeirah, You too appear to target only those which suits you best. I was answering to the below comment made whcih once raised requires an answer, unless you wish to answer it.






So please, stop your pathetic attack on anyone who disagrees with you, and by the way, I have provided a wealth of knowledge to put forward my explanation with regards to Gandhi, please use that thread to make your reference with evidence please, as I have done there. Your personal style attack will achieve nothing.

Wow Gazzi......now u r showing your true colours!!!! Pathetic attacks eh? You know what??? If you think my attacks are pathetic then also stop doin your PATHETIC and DISGUSTING attacks on Mr. Hector Aleem and Christianity!!!!!! and If u wanna go OFF TOPIC then start a new thread UNDERSTOOD!!!!! You think you know everything and you thnik that u r a scholer!!! hahah.......man u dont know ANYTHING......and anything means ANYTHING!!!!!!
 
The problem is not about preaching anything. Its a matter of how and what tactics are used to do so. Many a times people report that they are only given tents, blankets food etc etc etc if they convert to Christianity. Hence, this method is wrong. This came to the forefront in india recently and challenged rigourosly.

Look Gazzi!!! Muslims are not Angels!!! Your statement about Missioneries is not true! they are vrey humble and nice......Mr. Hector Aleem is innocent......the whole world knows it!! only you are denying that he is not innocent!!!!! so if u dont wanna accept that he is innocent then dont accept! We dont care!!!!!!
 
Pakistan: Debate still rages over Blasphemy laws

Monday, November 02, 2009, By Aftab Mughal

Blasphemy laws of Pakistan have come under continuous debate since several Christians were killed, dozen Christian houses were burnt and many Churches were under attack by Muslim fundamentalists in a pogrom-style attack during the last three months in many places of Punjab province. Muslim protesters used blasphemy laws for a justification to attack on Christian religious (tiny) minority of 1.5 percent of the total Pakistani population. The blasphemy laws were introduced by General Zia-ul Haq, Afghan jihad’s master-mind, as part of his “Islamization” process of the country during 1977-88. Christians and human rights organisations have been demanding for the total repeal of the laws while Islamic hard-line religious parties and other rightist parties say that no change would be accepted in the laws.

“It is enough to accuse a person of this to have him arrested and imprisoned. A aberrant law and harbinger of discrimination, which "legalizes" violence against religious minorities and whose perpetrators go unpunished in most cases, thanks to the connivance of police and government officials,” writes Dario Salvi in Asia News on Oct. 29, 2009.

The federal government said the government would take some measures that the law should not be misused. The religious parties opposed such moves. Suni Tehrik organized a demonstration in Faisalabad, on Oct. 2, in which they demanded that no change in the blasphemy laws will be accepted. The government was warned by speakers of another protest rally, which was organized by the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Pakistan (JUP), on Oct. 11 that any change in the Namoos-e-Risalat Act (Blasphemy Law) would be dealt with appropriately and the entire nation would march towards Islamabad. The rally also condemned the Parliament and specifically the lady Speaker of the National Assembly who sent Namoos-e-Risalat Act to the standing committee for revision. Along with the religious parties, even major political parties have a very different opinion on the issue. According to the The News on Sunday of Oct. 18, 2009, in the National Assembly, a PML-N (the major opposition political party) legislator has vowed to resist moves to 'alter the laws on the demands of the west'.

Route to change

“There is also the argument that even total repeal may not work as a remedy in cases related to offences against religion. Very often, mob violence and police brutality in such cases follow a sluggish court procedure subjecting the accused to lengthy periods in jail, legal costs and repeated court appearances. -- The NCJP cites 32 extrajudicial executions on blasphemy charges so far,” Zeenia Shaukat says in a report published in TNS, Oct. 18, 2009. The report interviewed some prominent intellectuals in this regard. "At this point, it is not possible to change these laws," Senator S.M. Zafar told TNS when asked if repeal of the Blasphemy Laws is a practical proposition. "This needs to be addressed in stages.”

The HRCP Executive Director I.A. Rehman observes that "those calling for a change are heavily outnumbered by the 'no-change' crowd. -- At the moment, the room for consensus is extremely limited. The political leaders and parties are so mortally afraid of clerics that even a minor change in procedure will be an achievement."

A.H. Nayyar of the Sustainable Development Policy Institute explains: "Either you match the street power of the religious forces or you follow repeal through absolute dictatorship. There is no way a democratic process could repeal these laws."


"Even if these laws are repealed, the instances of mob violence may not go away, because it has become a kind of habit with the people (to take law into their hands)," says Doctor Tariq Rahman, academician at the Quaid-e-Azam University. Rehman suggests that a media campaign along the lines of the one followed for Women's Protection Bill can pave the way for consensus on the issue. However, analysts agree that between the two extreme positions; one, advocating total repeal, and the other aggressively defending the Blasphemy Laws, there lies ground for creating a culture of tolerance and social acceptance for religious diversity.

Peter Jacob, Executive Secretary NCPJ, says that despite their strong stand on repeal, the minorities would not like to act like stubborn trouble makers in the process. "There is need for broader education of people, and the media and the civil society could assist in the process."

President assures Pope

When Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari met with Pope Benedict XVI in Vatican on Oct. 1, Pope raise the issue of the protection of Christian minority in Pakistan and especially the blasphemy laws. President Asif Ali Zardari assured him that all stakeholders and political forces would be consulted to check and stop the misuse of blasphemy laws.

Minorities Minister

Shabaz Bhatti told a conference in London, which was organized by CSW on Oct. 10, that the Pakistani government was ready to review the blasphemy law that is routinely misused to attack and imprison Christians. According to the Christian Today, he acknowledged that Christians were being attacked, imprisoned and killed under the pretext of committing blasphemy and that the blasphemy charges being brought against Christians were false.

Pakistan’s former Information Minister Sherry Rehman, from the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), and Jameela Gilani, from the Awami National Party, both Muslim Members of the National Assembly (MNAs), have called for the repeal of the blasphemy laws. Asia News reported on Oct. 7 that Ms Gilani, stressed that her party was in favor of the repeal of the laws because “we are against all laws introduced by dictators.”

Minority law makers of parliament and four provincial assemblies in Islamabad on Oct. 12 failed to reach a consensus whether the controversial blasphemy law should be abolished or amended to prevent its misuse, daily Dawn reported on Oct. 13. It was decided that the elected members would consult their respective political leaderships over the issue before the next consultative session to be held in January 2010 to evolve a joint course of action.

Christian, Muslim and Hindu legal experts, religious scholars and human rights activists came together during a seminar to discuss the blasphemy laws in Karachi on Oct. 25, Dawn reported. The seminar was organized by the People’s Resistance.

Retired Justice Rana Bhagwandas, a Hindu, once who served as acting chief justice of Pakistan, said, “Who would be senseless enough to commit blasphemy in Pakistan? These laws have created a negative image of Islam across the world.” Islamic scholar Dr Khalid Zaheer was of the opinion that according to the Holy Quran, a person cannot be put to death for blasphemy. Hilda Saeed of the Women’s Action Forum said, “The law is wrong and must be done away with. Pakistan has one of the poorest records when it comes to protecting minorities.” M. Prakash, chairman of the Minority Rights Commission of Pakistan, said, “The minorities respect the religion of Islam. But we want the blasphemy laws to be repealed.”

Pakistan: Debate still rages over Blasphemy laws | Spero News
 
Truthseeker, instead of sending me messages you can contcat me on this thread for all to converse. You message below:

So, Gazzi, Sir,
Did you find what is the Quranic justification for blaspheny laws? I have searched the internet in vain for a Quranic passage that is the basis for blasphemy laws. Did your mullah friends explain where in Islamic jurisprudence is found the basis for blasphemy punishments in Sharia law or, better still in the laws of a State like Pakistan?

Regards,
TruthSeeker


Now, I have already put this answer forward as shown in previous entries that although the Quran does have one verse where it comes close to justifying the blasphemy laws (somewhat) depending on which angle it is looked at, concordissed view or conflictive view, the other verses of the Quran are unchallenged and must be taken into account whereby it states that Patience must be shown and to not converse with people who insult Allah.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom