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Grandmother of all defense deals- FGFA on their way

India will spend over $25 Billion on FGFA aircrafts

By SiliconIndia
Tuesday, 05 October 2010, 15:01 IST


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New Delhi: India will spend over $25 billion to induct 250 advanced stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) into its military brandwagon .This will be India's biggest defence project which will be co-developed with Russia, reports Rajat Pandit of Times of India.

Each FGFA will cost upwards of Rs 450 crore or around $100 million. The project needs huge infrastructure to base, operate and maintain such jets in India. So co-developing the FGFA with cash-strapped Russia, was an obvious choice.
This was formally announced after the two-day talk between Defence Minister A K Antony and his Russian counterpart Anatoly Serdyukov ended in Moscow .

The jet has a super-manoeuvrability and supersonic cruising ability, long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities. Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said that the 30 tonne FGFA will be a swing-role fighter, with very advanced avionics, stealth to increase survivability, enhanced lethality, 360 degree situational awareness, smart weapons, data-links, and high-end mission computers.

The Indian FGFA will be based on the Russian Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA,but will be built according to IAF's specifications. IAF, for instance, is also keen on a twin-seater version of the FGFA. In fact , IAF recently finalised the technical requirements for its FGFA, which will have long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities.

The FGFA, along with other Research & Development projects like the multi-role transport aircraft (MTA) as well as the BrahMos-2 'hypersonic' cruise missiles, will gain further momentum when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh holds a summit with President Dmitry Medvedev in Moscow this December.

While India has several ongoing multi-billion dollar military projects with Russia, which range from refit of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov and lease of K-152 Nerpa Akula-II nuclear submarine to production of 230 Sukhoi-30MKI fighters and 1,657 T-90S main-battle tanks, the FGFA is the most futuristic of them all.

The American F/A-22 'Raptor', each of which costs upwards of $140 million, is the only operational FGFA in the world at present. IAF's most potent fighter is currently the Sukhoi-30MKI, which can be placed a little over fourth-generation,

While fourth-generation fighters typically revolve around multi-role capabilities, FGFA takes it forward by incorporating stealth technology, composite materials, supercruise, thrust-vectoring and integrated avionics as well.


 
Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) / PAK-FA / T-50
A Russian project with Indian participation
The FGFA is being developed by Sukhoi, which is part of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), with limited financial and technical participation by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), under an intergovernmental agreement signed in October 2007.
Contents
Introduction
Features
TV Report on Technologies Used in PAK-FA
Analysis
Joint Development with India
News Track
Flight Test Progress
more
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first T-50 prototype taking off from an airfield at Sukhoi's production plant in the Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur on Friday, January 29. Photo © Sergei Pashkovsky/Sukhoi
Introduction
Russia and India are jointly developing two versions of the combat aircraft - a two-seat version to meet the requirements of India's air superiority policy, and a single-seat version for the Russian Air Force.

Sukhoi has constructed three prototypes at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Association (KNAAPO) in Russia's Far East. Flight tests of the fighter started on January 29 and are likely to be completed by 2012 when the Russian defense ministry and air force are expected to make a call on the project's future.

India and Russia signed a preliminary agreement to jointly develop the fighter in 2007 and will sign a formal contract during 2010.

India is expected to supply composite-material parts of the airframe, avionics and software packages for the aircraft.

The fighter is expected to enter service with the Russian Air Force by 2015 and with the Indian Air Force in 2017.

Features
The fighter, estimated to be in the 30t category, is expected to feature super maneuverability, super cruise, sensor fusion and stealth with an internal weapon bay.

Exact range and speed of the jet will depend on the engines that finally power it. The figures given below are published estimates.

Low Observable (LO) Features
The following LO features are evident in the first prototype:

Aerodynamic fuselage and wing shaping
Reduced area all moving fins canted to reduce radar reflections
Use of composite materials, advanced aerodynamic techniques and
Measures to reduce the aircraft’s engine signature,
Internal weapons bay. The aircraft features two weapons bay in the under fuselage area between the engines. In addition, it is beleived to have two smaller housings for short-range weapons on the inboard section of the wings.
Air intake ducts are not curved to shield engine compressors as in the Raptor; instead ducts are blocked using composite material. Similarly, the nozzles are blocked to shield turbine blades. The extent of shielding is variable. It is minimized when engine power requirements are high. The blocking concept is illustrated in the video below.
Air Intake Radar Shielding



The all moving canted fins of the T-50 can be seen in this grab from the Sukhoi video below
Not so LO Features
Circular exhaust.
Infrared-search-and-track ball on the nose.
Canopy frame,
Gaps around the inlets.
Various unshielded intakes and grilles.
Limited use of composites for now. Eventually, 40% of the aircraft will be made using composites.
Many surface intersections and flight-test probes that increase the radar signature.

Raptor LO Comparison

The Russians say the Raptor was primarily designed to evade ground radar. The PAK-FA will be able to detect a Raptor first and then engage it using its superior maneuverability.

Range
Russian sources have indicated a range of 3,400-mile, against the Raptor's officially acknowledged range of 1,850 miles,

Cruise Speed
Can reportedly super-cruise at 2,000km/h

Radars
The aircraft is expected to feature a variant of the Tikhomirov NIIP AESA radar first displayed at MAKS 2009. At the event, Anatoly Sinany, Tikhomirov’s chief designer, explained that T-50’s radar antenna will have 1,500 T/R modules, produced by Iztok company from Fryazino, near Moscow.

The aircarft has five radars: 3 X-band AESA, one in the nose and two on the sides, and 2 L-band in the leading edge root (LEX) extension of the wings.

The current version of the Tikhomirov AESA is able to simultaneously track 20-30 targets.

The Russians say, unlike the Raptor, which is designed to evade ground radar, the T-50 is honed for detecting the Raptor earlier and then engaging it in close combat.


PAK-FA / T-50 technological roundup


Sensor Fusion
The sensor fusion suite is being developed by Ramenskoye Design Bureau around a six-processor computer and includes visualization tools and flight instrument system. The T-50 will be able to exchange real-time data within the air group and with ground command posts.

An infra-red search and track housing was visible in the prototype.

Powerplant

Saturn 117S
The initial batch of the fighter will be powered by NPO Saturn Item 117S engines, derived from the supplier’s AL-31F series. The Item 117S, which produces 14.5 tons thrust in full after-burning and comes with a new full-authority digital engine control unit, is fitted on the Su-35 and uses key components of the AL-41F supercruising core.

The Su-35 is the first non-US fighter with substantial sustained supersonic cruise capability, so even initial models of PAF-FA should support good supercruise giving it a good advantage in initial engagement.

Saturn AL-41F
A new engine, Saturn AL-41F, will be incorporated with later production examples. It is expected to offer about 17.5 tons of thrust in full afterburning mode and somewhere in the range of 12 tons in dry mode, allowing the aircraft to comfortably super-cruise at around Mach 1.5.

According Ilya Fedorov, Saturn CEO and head of the PAK FA engine program, the T-50 flew with "completely new powerplants." Compared to the 117S, the new powerplant has increased thrust and a digital control system adapted to T-50’s performance.

However, Russian Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov said the aircraft flew with engines from an earlier “4++” generation fighter. The question of a new engine for the PAK FA remains to be decided, he added.

The TV report below confirms that the aircraft currently uses the 117S engine.

Salut and Saturn to jointly develop new engine

In April 2010 AW&ST reported that the Moscow-based Salut and NPO Saturn, now part of United Engine Corp, will jointly develop the so-called second-stage engine for the T-50.

Earlier, NPO Saturn and Salut were competing for the program with designs known as Eniseysk-A and Eniseysk-B, respectively.

In March 2010, Sukhoi chief Mikhail Pogosyan said the T-50 would enter service with the air force powered by the Saturn 117. He indicated development of the second-stage engine could take another decade.

According to Salut CEO Yuri Eliseev, in order to minimize risks, technologies that will go into the second-stage engine will be developed and tested as upgrades to the Al-31F engines that power the Su-27/Su-30 family of fighters.

As part of the first stage of development, a new compressor has been fitted into a new version called AL-31FM1 with a thrust of 27,000 lb., interval between overhauls of 1,000 hr. and service life of 2,000 hr.; compared to 25,000 lb. thrust, 500 hr. between overhauls and 1,500 hr. of service life for the serial AL-31F.

The AL-31FM1 already powers modernized Su-27SM Russian air force fighters and has also been approved for installation on Su-34 bombers.

A further development, the AL-31FM2, is being bench-tested. The engine features a new combustor chamber and turbine and reached 29,200 lb. thrust.



First flight: Poised for T/O Photo © Sukhoi/Video Grab
Unique Aerodynamic Features
The leading edge extensions above the air-intakes are movable and are being referred to as Povorotnaya Chast Naplyva (PChN) (swiveling LEX part)

Materials
Eventually, 40% of the aircraft will be made using composites. The Russians say a new type of carbon plastic was developed for PAK-FA.

Weapon Load
Eight next-generation air-to-air R-77 missiles / Two anti-ship bombs weighing 1,500 kg each / two long-range missiles developed by the Novator Bureau which can hit targets within a 400 kilometer range. (via RIA Novosti)

Cockpit Layout
Russian President Vladimir Putin's visited Sukhoi's offices on Monday, March 1, 2010.

The following is a photograph of the T-50 cockpit, a video grab from TV footage of the visit posted on DefenceNet, a Russian language website.





TV Report on Technologies Used in PAK-FA


Below is a report on the T-50 program aired by Russian 'Roscosmos TV'. An english languge transalation of the video maybe viewed at Defunct Humanity.




Analysis
IDA's unclassified analysis
De-constructing the Sukhoi PAK-FA (Su-50)

Here is an analysis of the T-50 by a senior US Air Force officer involved in development of the F-117 and F-35. [via Ares]

"It is apparent that more concern has been paid to shaping, but there are still many surface intersections and flight test probes that will stress [increase the radar] signature. In addition, we need to understand the internal mechanics of very large inlets to determine how and if engine blockage [of radar reflections] is achieved. In addition, those wing leading edge devices present challenges for [stealth] signature control."

"Engines are going to be one of the long poles in the tent here," says one of the U.S. analysts. " It is unclear if in fact the aircraft is flying with the interim [117S] supercruise engine or just the AL-31FP's like those in the Su-30MKI/MKA/MKM for the initial flights. The [refined supercruise] engine likely won't be ready for several years to come, well beyond even IOC [initial operating capability]."

Air Power Australia: Assessing the Sukhoi PAK-FA
Why the F-22 and the PAK-FA have the “Right Stuff” and why the F/A-18 and the F-35 do not
Analysis on AW&ST blog ARES
Sukhoi PAK FA: First Observations Part 1
Sukhoi PAK-FA: First Observations Part 2
Major Work Ahead On T-50 Stealth Fighter
Interesting analysis on Secret Project Projects forum

Joint Development with India
India and Russia have agreed to jointly develop a two seat version of FGFA for use by the Indian Air Force.

Under an agreement reached between the two countries at the Tenth Meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) on October 7, 2010, "India will receive approximately between 250-300" FGFA aircraft.

Indian Defence Minister Shri AK Antony and the Russian Defence Minister Mr. AE Serdyukov headed the respective delegations.

The Indian version of the FGFA will feature a different avionics fit.

Fast Track Development
Indian participation in the FGFA project, and the consequent infusion of Indian funds, is likely to fast track FGFA development.

News Track
(Latest news stories are posted on top)

New Flight Video
The following new video showing a T-50 test flight appeared on YouTube on May 19, 2010.




FGFA to be inducted into IAF by 2017
M Fakruddin, Director-Corporate Planning and Marketing, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) told to The New Indian Express in February 2009 that India and Russia have sorted out their differences on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) to be jointly developed by them and are set to sign a formal contract.

"There have been differences between the two Air Forces as both have specific requirements," said Mr. Fakruddin.

"These issues will be sorted out soon and by the middle of the year we expect to start work so that the aircraft is inducted by 2017," he added.

Engine Development Delays
Speaking at MAKS 2009 on Thursday, August 20, Russian Air Force Chief Alexander Zelin acknowledged problems with the development of FGFA engines.

"For the time being the aircraft will use Saturn engines. There are problems, I admit, but research is continuing," he said.

Zelin also confirmed a second FGFA prototype is undergoing ground tests.

"The second aircraft, which is undergoing ground tests, is already here in Moscow," Zelin said.

Tech Requirements Exchanged
Addressing a press conference on October 1, Air Chief Marshal PV Naik said India had exchanged tech requirements with Russia for the FGFA. The IAF expected the aircraft to be in service by 2017.

Taxi Trials
Aviation Week reported on December 28 that the first taxi trials were successfully performed at Sukhoi’s Komsomol-on-Amur KnAAPO manufacturing facility, where prototypes are being built.

First Flight
A T-50 prototype took to the skies on its maiden flight on Friday, January 29 from an airfield at Sukhoi's production plant in the Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

The twin engine aircraft was as piloted by Sergei Bogdan and "performed excellently" during its 47 minutes test flight.

"In the course of the flight we conducted initial evaluation of the aircraft controllability," said Sukhoi director general Mikhail Pogosyan.

"These [PAK FA] aircraft, together with upgraded fourth-generation fighters, will define Russian air force potential for the next decades," he added.

Indian Participation
Interesting, Pogosyan acknowledged India's attempt to join the program.

"I am strongly convinced that our joint project will excel its Western rivals in cost-effectiveness and will not only allow strengthening the defence power of Russian and Indian air forces, but also gain a significant share of the world market," he said.

The first stage of flight trials will be completed by 2012, when the Russian defense ministry and air force will make a call on the project's future.

Flight Test Progress
On June 17, Russia Today posted this YouTube video of a flight demonstration by the aircraft.



On April 30 Flight magazine quoting a Sukhoi press release reported that the aircraft had been moved from Komsomolsk-on-Amur airport to Zhukovsky near Moscow on completion of the first phase of flight testing comprising 6 sorties. Future flight tests will be done at Zhukovsky, which will also host MAKS in August.

PAK-FA/T-50 First Flight


 
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In my opinion, HAL is too much exited about the project and they are overconfident. India ordered 272 Su30 mki. half of them are already inducted. Right now we are still trying to get features of 4th gen fighter like we are trying to make a new engine (kaveri) , aesa etc. Thinking about 5th gen directly is actually being overconfident. If we want to stay ahead in our game, the best option for us right now is make a minor change in our order of 272 mki. We should limit the number to 200 only, remaining 72 we should ask for SU35. They are very advanced plane, actually considered to be the best 4++ fighter with many features of 5th gen fighter. Apart from this, Su35 is actually the test platform for T50. By this we can get some 5th gen tech, this will also b helpful in our AMCA project because lets face it, we know nothing about 5th gen and its nothing like 4th gen. I congrats our HAL for LCA but i think 5th gen is something different. It would be really nice if HAL continue to develop LCA and keep on adding features of even 5th gen to the design, so that by 2020, India will have 5th gen design in all the 3 segments(light, medium and heavy combat aircraft).
Many people say if India operates too many platforms, it will be too hard too manage. But Su35 wont be a problem as we would be inducting a FGFA which happens to be based on the same platform. Thats my opinion, wat about u guys??/
 
In my opinion, HAL is too much exited about the project and they are overconfident. India ordered 272 Su30 mki. half of them are already inducted. Right now we are still trying to get features of 4th gen fighter like we are trying to make a new engine (kaveri) , aesa etc. Thinking about 5th gen directly is actually being overconfident. If we want to stay ahead in our game, the best option for us right now is make a minor change in our order of 272 mki. We should limit the number to 200 only, remaining 72 we should ask for SU35. They are very advanced plane, actually considered to be the best 4++ fighter with many features of 5th gen fighter. Apart from this, Su35 is actually the test platform for T50. By this we can get some 5th gen tech, this will also b helpful in our AMCA project because lets face it, we know nothing about 5th gen and its nothing like 4th gen. I congrats our HAL for LCA but i think 5th gen is something different. It would be really nice if HAL continue to develop LCA and keep on adding features of even 5th gen to the design, so that by 2020, India will have 5th gen design in all the 3 segments(light, medium and heavy combat aircraft).
Many people say if India operates too many platforms, it will be too hard too manage. But Su35 wont be a problem as we would be inducting a FGFA which happens to be based on the same platform. Thats my opinion, wat about u guys??/
 
In my opinion, HAL is too much exited about the project and they are overconfident. India ordered 272 Su30 mki. half of them are already inducted. Right now we are still trying to get features of 4th gen fighter like we are trying to make a new engine (kaveri) , aesa etc. Thinking about 5th gen directly is actually being overconfident. If we want to stay ahead in our game, the best option for us right now is make a minor change in our order of 272 mki. We should limit the number to 200 only, remaining 72 we should ask for SU35. They are very advanced plane, actually considered to be the best 4++ fighter with many features of 5th gen fighter. Apart from this, Su35 is actually the test platform for T50. By this we can get some 5th gen tech, this will also b helpful in our AMCA project because lets face it, we know nothing about 5th gen and its nothing like 4th gen. I congrats our HAL for LCA but i think 5th gen is something different. It would be really nice if HAL continue to develop LCA and keep on adding features of even 5th gen to the design, so that by 2020, India will have 5th gen design in all the 3 segments(light, medium and heavy combat aircraft).
Many people say if India operates too many platforms, it will be too hard too manage. But Su35 wont be a problem as we would be inducting a FGFA which happens to be based on the same platform. Thats my opinion, wat about u guys??/

What made yu think that AESA and the new Kaveri s not fifth generation?
 
I
What made yu think that AESA and the new Kaveri s not fifth generation?

Its because India is making AESA and Kaveri for LCA(4th gen technology) and secondly because not even Russia has 5th gen AESA and 5th gen engine.

I suggested to go for Su35, because it is really a very advanced fighter, it has some features of a 5th gen fighters. I think we need this quickly because according to the timeline we dont have enough time. We depending ourself upon the technology gained from MMRCA but HAL has again forgotten about timeline. The production of MMRCA will start not before 2013 and it will take time for them to absorb these technologies and they should remember that by the time they would gain the knowledge, Russia would be ready with its t50(by 2015) and our hope of preparing a 5th gen with Russia would just be a dream. If India does not want to slow down the production of T50/PAKFA/FGFA, we might sit at the back seat and let the Russian drive. As soon as we learn something from this project, we could start work on our indigenous AMCA. This wont delay our plans of upgrading IAF.

I am not saying that India should abandon these projects. Making AESA and an engine like Kaveri on our own would be a great achievement will provide great thrust to our aerospace industry.

I think India should also develop its KALI laser as a weapon for our 5th gen fighter. It would be really cool.
 
$ 30 billion is not much when considering its contribution to the security and technological capability of India. FGFA, Su-30 MKI, Eurofighter/F-18E and LCA will make India the best air force in Asia with fusion of technologies from all the advanced nations.



That matches the words of the HAL chairman about FGFA specifications.

I hope India picks the Gripen. Fingers crossed!
 
Right now we are still trying to get features of 4th gen fighter like we are trying to make a new engine (kaveri) , aesa etc.

Thinking about 5th gen directly is actually being overconfident. If we want to stay ahead in our game, the best option for us right now is make a minor change in our order of 272 mki. We should limit the number to 200 only, remaining 72 we should ask for SU35.


Apart from this, Su35 is actually the test platform for T50. By this we can get some 5th gen tech, this will also b helpful in our AMCA project because lets face it,

===================================

U raise few goof points...
1. Su30 MKI is the closest of Su35. Serial upgrades in MKI will make it as good as Su35. So no need to go and buy Su35.. Integration of Western weapon on Su35 will delay the project. (what do you say about it?)

2. @ experience.. Some time we need to learn run before learning how to walk.

3. India is not fool that they investing billions in FGFA, FGFA experience will be used parallely to make AMCA.

4. Su35 is testbed for avionics , original testbed for Design was MiG1.44 and Sukhoi Berkut.

5. Don't forget the help we got from Russia for our Defense programs.. Half of the Adm Gorshakov money was paid for ToT for Arihennt... :smitten:
 
@ alam.saquiba
Look i am not an expert but i would like to counter some of your points :
1. Su30 MKI is the closest of Su35
I said Su35 advanced version has some features of 5th gen. I agree both of them are almost same but the only difference b/w them are the 5th gen features, which we need.

2.Some time we need to learn run before learning how to walk.
Agreed !!! But we are talking about 5th gen tech, do you know how much time it took US to develop them.

3.India is not fool that they investing billions in FGFA, FGFA experience will be used parallely to make AMCA.
Agreed !!! Its because of this reason HAL is claiming the timeline of 2017-18 but i think they are sommiting the same mistake again. What if dere are some delays on the russian side ? We have to admit then we don't have anything else, we would be stuck once again untill we recieve and dats why i proposed for a second source, so that we don't feel useless.

4.Su35 is testbed for avionics , original testbed for Design was MiG1.44 and Sukhoi Berkut.
My bad. That was my mistake. What i meant was, Su35 is actually used for testing. The 5th gen features of FGFA are tested on Su35.

5.Don't forget the help we got from Russia for our Defense programs.. Half of the Adm Gorshakov money was paid for ToT for Arihennt...
Plz give me the source of this info. + you see the delays, that what i am saying. I am not saying we wont be able to complete fgfa but timeline is unrealistic. Many things can go on.
We delayed tejas even when we had options but in this project, HAL wont have much options as nobody else can help. It will be the same as when we faced problems in the earlier development phase of tejas, when we were stuck because of various restrictions.
Plz do reply.....
 
Superior to F-22 ... now thats interesting. wonder how USA will take that:azn:

By having a 6th generation to offer India ? :smokin: In this generation, we will be able to emulate the voice and language of the enemies pilot and request its wing man to eject.
 
I cant see India Pulling off

126 Hornets or Typhoons between 2012-2021 for less than $13 billion

To Then Spend $3 billion of FGFA investment between "2012-2018. WITH a further $20 billion on purchasing FGFA from 2018

IS IMO beyond the Indian military budget.

Add a few billion $$$ on Tejas mk1 & 2 induction

Thats 3 seperate multi billion $$$$ fighter projects

The richest nations on earth only have a max of 2
 
I cant see India Pulling off

126 Hornets or Typhoons between 2012-2021 for less than $13 billion

To Then Spend $3 billion of FGFA investment between "2012-2018. WITH a further $20 billion on purchasing FGFA from 2018

IS IMO beyond the Indian military budget.

Add a few billion $$$ on Tejas mk1 & 2 induction

Thats 3 seperate multi billion $$$$ fighter projects

The richest nations on earth only have a max of 2


Yes..But this money will be nicely spread over 15-20 years . So just chill..
 
I

Its because India is making AESA and Kaveri for LCA(4th gen technology) and secondly because not even Russia has 5th gen AESA and 5th gen engine.

What are the differences between 4th and 5th generation engines?

I suggested to go for Su35, because it is really a very advanced fighter, it has some features of a 5th gen fighters. I think we need this quickly because according to the timeline we dont have enough time. We depending ourself upon the technology gained from MMRCA but HAL has again forgotten about timeline. The production of MMRCA will start not before 2013 and it will take time for them to absorb these technologies and they should remember that by the time they would gain the knowledge, Russia would be ready with its t50(by 2015) and our hope of preparing a 5th gen with Russia would just be a dream. If India does not want to slow down the production of T50/PAKFA/FGFA, we might sit at the back seat and let the Russian drive. As soon as we learn something from this project, we could start work on our indigenous AMCA. This wont delay our plans of upgrading IAF.

I am not saying that India should abandon these projects. Making AESA and an engine like Kaveri on our own would be a great achievement will provide great thrust to our aerospace industry.

I think India should also develop its KALI laser as a weapon for our 5th gen fighter. It would be really cool.

Your idea is good but KALI is not possible for fighter aircraft. As of now it is too heavy to even carry on land and it is not laser but something in the line of microwave or particle/electron bombardment system.
 

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