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HAL’s trainer pitted as Rs 4,500 crore cheaper than Swiss Pilatus trainer

sudhir007

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Broadsword: HAL’s trainer pitted as Rs 4,500 crore cheaper than Swiss Pilatus trainer

HTT-40.jpg


A looming test case will soon make clear how serious the defence ministry (MoD) is about its recently expressed intentions to end corruption in arms procurement by indigenizing defence production. Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), the Bangalore-based public sector aircraft builder has challenged the IAF’s plan to purchase more Pilatus trainer aircraft by building a basic trainer aircraft, using its own funding.

Of the IAF’s total requirement of 183 basic trainer aircraft, 75 PC-7 Mark II trainers have already been bought for Rs 2,900 crore from Swiss company, Pilatus. The first few Pilatus trainers have already been delivered and the IAF will begin training rookie pilots on the PC-7 Mark II this July. With the IAF’s immediate requirement met, HAL demands that the IAF buy 108 HTT-40 trainers to complete its fleet.

This has led to a dramatic three-way face-off between the MoD, HAL and the IAF. The IAF insists that it needs more Pilatus trainers immediately and is pressing the MoD to exercise the options clause in the Pilatus contract for 37 more PC-7 Mark II trainers. HAL points out that Pilatus will complete delivery of the initial order for 75 trainers only in 2015. If the HTT-40 does not fly by then the options clause can be exercised then, bringing HAL’s order down to 71 aircraft.

The MoD, which is the final arbiter, is caught in a cleft stick. Last year, as reported by Business Standard (Dec 19, 2012, “MoD rejects HAL’s proposal to build basic trainer”) the MoD chose the readily available Pilatus, saying that the HTT-40 was more expensive. But now, HAL has submitted a cheaper price bid. And with the MoD battered by allegations of corruption in overseas arms purchases, defence minister AK Antony is himself inclined to buy Indian.

Meanwhile a pro-active HAL has committed Rs 40 crore of company money to develop the HTT-40, and is allocating another Rs 160 crore that will also pay for three flying prototypes. At the Aero India 2013 show in Bengaluru in February, HAL exhibited a full-scale model of the HTT-40 and an impressive team of young aeronautical designers, who were calmly confident that the HTT-40, rather than the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II was the future of basic flying training in India’s military.

Prashantsingh Bhadoria, one of the HTT-40’s designers, told Business Standard that the HTT-40 would eventually cost Rs 35 crore per aircraft, including the cost of developing a weaponised variant. The 75 Pilatus that the IAF has already signed up for cost Rs 38.5 crore per aircraft. The HAL team at Aero India 2013 said that the HTT-40’s only two imported systems would be the engine and the ejection seat, which together cost Rs 6 crore.

“It is easy to see what benefits India’s aerospace industry. The Rs 38.5 crore that we pay for each Pilatus PC-7 Mark II goes entirely to Swiss manufacturers. Of the Rs 34.5 crore that each HTT-40 will cost, India’s aerospace industry will get Rs 29 crore; only Rs 6 crore will go abroad,” says Bhadoria.

A MoD rethink is underway. The ministry’s high-level Defence Procurement Group (DPG) has asked HAL to prepare a life cycle costing of the HTT-40, which is an estimation of what the trainer will cost to buy, operate, maintain, upgrade and overhaul during its estimated service lifespan of 30-40 years. Given that the HTT-40 will be built, maintained, overhauled and upgraded in HAL, the Pilatus will inevitably appear more expensive in a life cycle comparison.

Top HAL sources tell Business Standard that the life cycle estimates make a fleet of 108 HTT-40’s trainers cheaper than a PC-7 Mark II fleet by Rs 4,500 crore.

MoD officials say that the life cycle comparisons will be evaluated by the DPG and then taken before the ministry’s apex Defence Acquisition Council (DAC). If the DAC approves the project, HAL will get funding and IAF orders for up to 108 trainer aircraft.

HAL has also proposed supplying the HTT-40 to the Indian Navy, which will eventually have more than 500 aircraft, including aircraft carrier based fighters. HAL is confident that the navy will eventually set up its own training establishment, instead of training naval pilots in IAF training facilities. This would provide an additional market for the HTT-40.

HAL’s projections suggest that the HTT-40 will fly at 600 km per hour, reach an altitude of 10,000 metres, fly 3,000 km non-stop, and carry a 500-pound bomb or a mix of weaponry like guns, rockets and bombs. This would allow the HTT-40 to operate as a light strike aircraft, like the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6, which the US is considering for supply to the Afghan National Air Force.

The HTT-40 and the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II are “Stage-1” trainers for rookie pilots, which will replace the obsolescent HPT-36. After basic training, fighter pilots will move on to “Stage-2” training on the Intermediate Jet Trainer, which HAL is developing. After that, pilots will graduate to “Stage-3” training on the Hawk advanced jet trainer. Only after that will they fly IAF frontline combat aircraft.
 
IAF should support HAL trainer too. BTW HAL also need shock treatments at regular intervals, so that they will complete projects on time :cheers:
 
HAL’s projections suggest that the HTT-40 will fly at 600 km per hour, reach an altitude of 10,000 metres, fly 3,000 km non-stop, and carry a 500-pound bomb or a mix of weaponry like guns, rockets and bombs.

PC-7 :

Max Speed - 412km/hr(Never exceed limit 500km/hr).
Altitude - 10,060m
Range - 2,630km

The specs of HTT-40 looks promissing if delivered on time.

Maybe HAL should sack the Sitara IJT project(bcoz it doesn't serve much purpose) n focus basic trainers n increase production of Hawk AJTs.

N IAF should use Hawks for both IJT n AJT role.:)
 
IAF should support HAL trainer too. BTW HAL also need shock treatments at regular intervals, so that they will complete projects on time :cheers:

Is that gottdamned HAL trainer flying? yet?
When it does we'll need to look at it. In the meanwhile let them work at it and make it fly.
 
HAL can expect full support from the moment you guys fly the aircraft as per the specs.
 
Looks promising.I think IAF should think abouth this jet.it is the risk that they must take.if this gamble works,then we will have a proven home grown basic aircraft.and if not,Pc-7 will be there for us,as always.but I think HAL must complete IJT Sitara first..we desperately need that aircraft.and I think MOD will give HAL a chance as MOD is pushing indigenisation,and battered for corruption.HAL is made a master move at the right moment.. ;)
 
Looks promising.I think IAF should think abouth this jet.it is the risk that they must take.if this gamble works,then we will have a proven home grown basic aircraft.and if not,Pc-7 will be there for us,as always.but I think HAL must complete IJT Sitara first..we desperately need that aircraft.and I think MOD will give HAL a chance as MOD is pushing indigenisation,and battered for corruption.HAL is made a master move at the right moment.. ;)

N why do we desparately need an IJT at all. I mean when Hawks can easily do IJT role n then why go for a all together different platfrom for the sake of Indigenization which will be flying with a Russian engine anyways...:hitwall:

The license production has considerably reduced Hwak's cost of production, infact the last order for 57 Hawk follow on was signed for only $750 M i.e. around $13.15 M each.

I agree that we should give HAL a chance with its basic trainer but IMO HAL Sitara should be sacked as it no longer serve any purpose...:)
 
N why do we desparately need an IJT at all. I mean when Hawks can easily do IJT role n then why go for a all together different platfrom for the sake of Indigenization which will be flying with a Russian engine anyways...:hitwall:

The license production has considerably reduced Hwak's cost of production, infact the last order for 57 Hawk follow on was signed for only $750 M i.e. around $13.15 M each.

I agree that we should give HAL a chance with its basic trainer but IMO HAL Sitara should be sacked as it no longer serve any purpose...:)

actually IAF wants its course divided on 3 parts,

Stage-1 for basic part-its Pc-7/HAL HTT-40

Stage-2-thats where IJT Sitara comes.but as IJT isn't available,IAF still training its crews on Kiran-Mk-II that should have to be retired years ago..

and for Stage-III,its AJT-Hawk..

stage-II can be trained by using both Hawk and PC-7,but none of them are meant to perform for that role.IAF wants IJT for that role..

IAF laments HAL delays in delivery of intermediate trainer | Business Standard
 
actually IAF wants its course divided on 3 parts,

Stage-1 for basic part-its Pc-7/HAL HTT-40

Stage-2-thats where IJT Sitara comes.but as IJT isn't available,IAF still training its crews on Kiran-Mk-II that should have to be retired years ago..

and for Stage-III,its AJT-Hawk..

stage-II can be trained by using both Hawk and PC-7,but none of them are meant to perform for that role.IAF wants IJT for that role..

IAF laments HAL delays in delivery of intermediate trainer | Business Standard

I know very well what IAF wants but i was suggesting what is logical.

When even the US uses only two platforms to train its pilots(which r actually just improved versions of PC7 n Hawks) so why the heck is IAF hell bent to use 3 platforms.

IMO 2 stage platform will save both Time n Cost in training:)
 
HAL will be given a project and a specific time to complete it....Because it is a govt entity, chai biscuit is free and people laze around fully knowing they cannot be held accountable ( fr the delay ) nor can be fired ( they have the support of Union's dont they ? ).

Armed forces gets fed up and pressurises the MOD to go for phoren maal ( actually both revere their bribe money ). Now HAL has egg on its face, appeals to MOD. MOD assures HAL that 50% of the money is being pumped back to buy chai biscuit again.....repeat the same every year.

The great HAL-MOD Thamasha.

This is just for satire but is confirmed by my relative working in HAL.
 
HAL is ready to build everything , but simply cannot build anything.... These Government's guys are good for nothing... Sarkar ke Daamaad hain ye log...Kuch bhi ho gae Salary to milega hee...
 

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