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Hijab And Corporate Morality — Orya Maqbool Jan

i do, when I argue with some of my buds, i do say that men should cover up to, how come women are turned into Ninjas, while men can jog around in shorts?
the dress code should be same for both, i fully agree with you here


whats it about? btw can you give me a link from another site? youtube is blocked here
I thought I saw a thread about Youtube being unbanned in Pakistan.

BTW it is trailer of Hindi movie "Dharam Sankat Main" about a hindu man who discovers that he is adopted and that his actual parents are Muslims. Then he has to become a "true" Muslim in order to meet his father. In that there is a scene about wearing a skull cap. There he says "Dharam koi bhi ho topi zaroor pehnate hain" It is a double meaning dialogue because in Hindi topi pehnana also means take you for a ride and con you
 
I thought I saw a thread about Youtube being unbanned in Pakistan.

BTW it is trailer of Hindi movie "Dharam Sankat Main" about a hindu man who discovers that he is adopted and that his actual parents are Muslims. Then he has to become a "true" Muslim in order to meet his father. In that there is a scene about wearing a skull cap. There he says "Dharam koi bhi ho topi zaroor pehnate hain" It is a double meaning dialogue because in Hindi topi pehnana also means take you for a ride and con you
LAWL
i dont know when you tube will be un banned although i read the news too
 
Ha Ha Ha Joke of the day.

Western govts promote burqa. Are you living in la la land

The places in the world that have a burqa ban – Quartz

Belgium and France have national bans on Burqa. Others like Italy Spain Switzerland Russia have local area bans. Burqa wearing females are hounded in Europe and US

typical sanghi... always thinking of the immediate and the local.

think global, dear fellow... do you think those western "muslims" who went into libya and syria were socialist playboys... do you think usa government is friend of muslim governments where burqa was removed decades back...

here is a darling of the western governments... tawakkul karman of yemen, nobel "peace" prize co-winner of 2011 and prime propaganda agent of nato in 2011 against muammar gaddafi and bashar al-assad...

Clinton+Meets+Yemeni+Nobel+Prize+Winner+Tawakkul+8G2ryKOXGjCl.jpg


and why the mention of russia in a talk about western governments??

@Koovie
 
Why do you only talk about women having to cover their whole bodies,

who is the "you" here??

neither @Jf Thunder is promoting burqa nor most muslims on this thread ( with exception of zarvan and luffy ).

and i have made long posts to show the pre-islam and anti-islam nature of burqa in this very thread.

I dont understand why is there a binary. If you are not wearing a burqa then by default you are wearing a Bikini. Arent there so many dresses between these two extremes

go tell the psychos called "ram sena" ( in india ) your logic...

from ( B'lore women beaten up for wearing western attire )...
Going by the recent spree of attacks against women in Bangalore, it is no longer safe to wear western outfits in the country's IT capital.

Such attacks have reportedly taken place at Indranagar, Brigade Road, Koramangala and the Mount Carmel college area, when women have been assaulted for being dressed in western attire.

In another incident near the Mount Carmel College, a young filmmaker was attacked by a group of men, who told her that she deserved the assault for daring to wear jeans and a sleeveless kurta.
 
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who is the "you" here??

neither @Jf Thunder is promoting burqa nor most muslims on this thread ( with exceptio of zarvan and luffy )??

and i have made long posts to show the pre-islam and anti-islam nature of burqa in this very thread.



go tell the psychos called "ram sena" ( in india ) your logic...

from ( B'lore women beaten up for wearing western attire )...

Ram Sene is a fringe group who is condemmed by all. But you conveniently sidestepped my questions about Muslims who see only two extremes Burqa and Bikini. Try to answer without bringing fringe Hindu groups in the answer
 
Ram Sene is a fringe group who is condemmed by all.

fringe?? there are hundreds of millions of indians with mentality like "ram sena"... why do you think its chief, pramod mutalik, is still alive?? in any socialist society, after what he did in mangalore in 2009, he would have been give to the firing squad... in fact, in socialist societies, the western governments would have specially inserted him and his gang... even in western nations, he and his gang would have been given a long jail sentence.

"ram sena" is one of the groups connected to the present indian government... don't use "fringe" do describe this group.

But you conveniently sidestepped my questions about Muslims who see only two extremes Burqa and Bikini. Try to answer without bringing fringe Hindu groups in the answer

can't you understand english !!!

why do you think this thread is 14 pages?? where are zarvan and luffy?? how have they been responded to by muslims??

zarvan and luffy are have more in common with modi, maneka gandhi and pramod mutalik, and nothing in common with true islam... final word.
 
That is such an extreme Zarvan. A woman if she is from a good family with good values will dress conservatively. To force her to wear a tent or cover her hair in public is humiliation and a way of expressing dominance over female gender. This is bullying my friend, not normal.
You really don't know how women work do you :rofl:
Most of these men get arranged marriages with zero concept of courting a woman and then from years of sexual suppression they become deviants and torment their wives. On top of that make them wear a tent in public.
You know which husbands are like this when you see a woman dressed this way. Truly disgusting.
I respect women, they add a lot to my life, so this is a passionate topic of mine.

Is this really true? I know some Syrian and Persian girls here who moved to the US when they were little like 2 years old. They look, walk and talk just like any common Americal girls would, but they have Hijaabs on. I've gotten into long debates with them on this. Their fathers or mothers never forced these upon them. In fact I know one sister who did this all her life, and wanted to follow her religion and culture. But her younger sister was the entire opposite, no hijaab or anything, she was a typical American teenager, and the parents didn't have any issues with her hanging out with boy and all. The older one had many men friends also, even with hijaab.

That really opened up my narrow mindedness that its a forced thing, as it didn't seem so in many cases I've studied. In fact, a few of these girls got married and quit doing hijaab for whatever reason.

But by reading both you and the gentlement you are responding to's arguments, it seems as one says its a religious thing to "stay away" from "dangerous men",etc. But your stance is that men force women to do it.

My experience with so many people, specially from Syria, Egypt, etc, tells me that at the end, its a woman's choice. Her body her rules and her choices, it's not a mandatory thing to do by any religion. In old days, Christian women would cover up. In fact Jewish women still cover up and the married ones wear head scarfs......its a women's personal choice as to what she wants to do.
 
Just because....I'm sitting next to a revealing women doesn't mean that I can touch her.

As far as the hijab goes, to each their own. All women are different.
 
Is it a religious issue? Had it been a religious issue, Christian nuns would have been the first target of the hatred of these liberals. But they are not disturbed by the “hijab” of nuns, because nuns lead an ascetic life, away from all social activities and so-called progressive freedom.
Wrong. Mr. Orya Maqbool Jan did not do his homework.

There are two kinds of nuns: pre-Vatican II and post Vatican II.

Pre-Vatican II nuns wears the classical and typical black-white 'habit'. Post Vatican II nuns are practically indistinguishable from regular women.

Confessions of a Modern Nun | America Magazine
...Rome is unhappy with so-called post-Vatican II nuns who have donned secular clothes...
Post Vatican II nuns can wear the traditional 'habit' if the individual nun CHOSES and freedom of choice for women seems to be difficult for Islamists to accept whenever they tried to defend the hijab.

Further, the real reason why 'liberals' do not attack nuns who chose to wear the 'habit' is because the nunnery is an option, meaning no one pressures any woman to join the nunnery. If you join the military, you have to dress a certain way, salute superior officers, and obey orders from superiors. Likewise, if a woman chose to join the nunnery and if the order chose the traditional 'habit', the woman can accept or refuse and if she chose to refuse, she can withdraw her application to join the nunnery.
 
I dont understand why is there a binary. If you are not wearing a burqa then by default you are wearing a Bikini. Arent there so many dresses between these two extremes

Stole my thunder on that part, just because a woman isnt wearing a Hijab doesnt mean she dresses like a slut. The other thing about the argument and the op. Where does the assumption come that a woman in a Hijab isnt beautiful?
There seems to be a strange belief that hair turns men into slathering animals but a Hijab has the impact of a 2kg bag of ice to the groin. Sorry a woman in a Hijab can be just as sexy as one with out.
aaa.png
 
@Zarvan and @menance2society

Why don't you two gentlemen let women decide for themselves to make decision.Again,two men arguing here to decide women's covering!?
@Akheilos I guess that your comment would be more appropriate.
---------------------------------------------
At the time of advent of Islam,Arab women use to wear cloth around their waists while their chests were not covered-
Quran have instructed both men and women to be careful. Below I am posting few extracts of this article with hope that it will help us to understand criteria properly.

The Qur’an and Hijab
Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.

The First Verse
In Chapter 24 known as an-Nur (the Light), in verse 30, Allah commands Prophet Muhammad as follows:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ يَغُضُّوْا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَ يَحْفَظُوْا فُرُوْجَهُمْ, ذَلِكَ أَزْكَى لَهُمْ.

Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”


Then in the next verse, Allah commands the Prophet to address the women:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَ يَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَهُنَّ...

“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…”

This is a similar command as given to the men in the previous verse regarding “hijabof the eyes”.

This hijab of eyes is similar to the teaching of Jesus where he says, “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, you shall not commit adultery. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”1 So if you see a Muslim casting his/her eyes downwards when he/she is talking to a member of opposite sex, this should not be considered as rude or an indication of lack of confidence — he/she is just abiding by the Qur’anic as well as Biblical teaching

The Second Verse
In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ...

“O Prophet! Say toyour wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.

What is the meaning of “jalabib”?
Jalabib جَلاَبِيْبٌ is the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ ,which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

The Qur’an and Hijab | Hijab, The Muslim Womens Dress,Islamic or Cultural? | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org

Women are simply instructed just to cover their heads and make up a loose covering that's it!

Now after Islam's spread to different regions of world,different nations and cultures have accepted it.Remember, religion itself has its own culture while on basis of habitat of nation, it has its own culture-so there are two cultures.The challenge being faced by these nations was either to modify their culture which become acceptable with respect to Islamic code of conduct or to accept their culture in such a way as to mix it with their national culture.
Now,the problem with bukha culture is that it is not Islamic culture actually but an attempt of Arabs-persian-afghan culture to mix with their Islamic culture.When you try to mix two cultures,one of the culture looses its identity where as if you try to make slight modifications to follow the criteria and both cultures can survive or coexists.
Burkha or abaya are attempts to mix and due to such reasons many individuals consider it as Islamic essentials.
Women can simply wear loose fitting clothes and take duppatta on their heads,no need to get panicked. However, if some wanted to follow mix cultures then you are nobody to tell her what to do.To some extent author is correct that prostitution mafiya and make up/fashion industries are heavily relying on women and I am not astonished if they have problems for women to adopt mix or individual religious culture of her choice.
Regards
 
@Zarvan and @menance2society

Why don't you two gentlemen let women decide for themselves to make decision.Again,two men arguing here to decide women's covering!?
@Akheilos I guess that your comment would be more appropriate.
---------------------------------------------
At the time of advent of Islam,Arab women use to wear cloth around their waists while their chests were not covered-
Quran have instructed both men and women to be careful. Below I am posting few extracts of this article with hope that it will help us to understand criteria properly.

The Qur’an and Hijab
Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.

The First Verse
In Chapter 24 known as an-Nur (the Light), in verse 30, Allah commands Prophet Muhammad as follows:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ يَغُضُّوْا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَ يَحْفَظُوْا فُرُوْجَهُمْ, ذَلِكَ أَزْكَى لَهُمْ.

Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”


Then in the next verse, Allah commands the Prophet to address the women:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَ يَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَهُنَّ...

“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…”

This is a similar command as given to the men in the previous verse regarding “hijabof the eyes”.

This hijab of eyes is similar to the teaching of Jesus where he says, “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, you shall not commit adultery. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”1 So if you see a Muslim casting his/her eyes downwards when he/she is talking to a member of opposite sex, this should not be considered as rude or an indication of lack of confidence — he/she is just abiding by the Qur’anic as well as Biblical teaching

The Second Verse
In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ...

“O Prophet! Say toyour wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.

What is the meaning of “jalabib”?
Jalabib جَلاَبِيْبٌ is the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ ,which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

The Qur’an and Hijab | Hijab, The Muslim Womens Dress,Islamic or Cultural? | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org

Women are simply instructed just to cover their heads and make up a loose covering that's it!

Now after Islam's spread to different regions of world,different nations and cultures have accepted it.Remember, religion itself has its own culture while on basis of habitat of nation, it has its own culture-so there are two cultures.The challenge being faced by these nations was either to modify their culture which become acceptable with respect to Islamic code of conduct or to accept their culture in such a way as to mix it with their national culture.
Now,the problem with bukha culture is that it is not Islamic culture actually but an attempt of Arabs-persian-afghan culture to mix with their Islamic culture.When you try to mix two cultures,one of the culture looses its identity where as if you try to make slight modifications to follow the criteria and both cultures can survive or coexists.
Burkha or abaya are attempts to mix and due to such reasons many individuals consider it as Islamic essentials.
Women can simply wear loose fitting clothes and take duppatta on their heads,no need to get panicked. However, if some wanted to follow mix cultures then you are nobody to tell her what to do.To some extent author is correct that prostitution mafiya and make up/fashion industries are heavily relying on women and I am not astonished if they have problems for women to adopt mix or individual religious culture of her choice.
Regards
Islam has given cultural orders as well secondly its not up to women to decide ALLAH already decided it Sir not men secondly order is for covering face too those who say that covering face is not compulsory try to come up with point that it was only for wives of PROPHET SAW and funnily enough they quote same ayat of Surah Al Ahzab which doesn't just mention wives of HOLY PROPHET SAW but entire women
 
Islam has given cultural orders as well secondly its not up to women to decide ALLAH already decided it Sir not men secondly order is for covering face too those who say that covering face is not compulsory try to come up with point that it was only for wives of PROPHET SAW and funnily enough they quote same ayat of Surah Al Ahzab which doesn't just mention wives of HOLY PROPHET SAW but entire women

Guess what I can post my replies on this thread now.:)

Well tell me something bro, lowering your gaze (being a male) comes first as an order, or wearing hijab and veil comes as an order first?

What was the context in which parda became necessary?
 
Well tell me something bro, lowering your gaze (being a male) comes first as an order

a few times, i have had to lower my gaze because the ladies decided to stare at me for many seconds, in admiration of course. :ashamed:

and no... no lightening struck them down. :D
 

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