how did china build its infrastructure ?

[Martian2]

I think there is a simple answer to the question as to why we are only seeing world-class infrastructure in China and not other developing countries.

China is really two countries in one. As previously mentioned, western and rural China are poor and have a low per-capita GDP. However, the eastern seaboard and southern coast of China are wealthy, technologically advanced, and have a population of over 300 million. Essentially, eastern China (with a population equivalent to the United States) is on a par with the West (i.e. manufactures world's-fastest 380 kph high-speed trains, 300,000-ton oil supertankers, world's most-powerful supercomputer, capable of performing Chinese spacewalk, etc.)

Other developing countries lack the advanced portion that China possesses. Without all of eastern China's advanced technologies, China would not have its world-class infrastructure.

Let's examine the different methods that are available and weigh their likelihood in achieving world-class infrastructure for a developing country.

Firstly, hiring Western contractors is beyond the reach of almost all developing countries (with the possible exception of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait). $2.54 billion per mile of subway is too expensive. Since the equipment has to be transported to a developing country and accommodations built to house the Western skilled labor, the cost will far exceed $2.54 billion per subway mile.

Secondly, buying Western equipment presents the same issue of unimaginable costs. Western equipment is really expensive. Also, without the Western engineers and technicians, the Western equipment will lie useless. In other words, a developing country does not possess the expertise to operate complex and sophisticated construction equipment.

Thirdly, in theory, a developing country can follow the China strategy of developing the technology and building it yourself. However, there is no guarantee that a developing country will experience China's success. The Chinese can conduct a spacewalk, but that doesn't mean a developing country can too.

If a developing country cannot employ Western technology or develop its own, what are the choices?

I think the only choice is to employ Chinese technology. Chinese technology has been proven to work (e.g. world's-largest Three Gorges Dam) and it's affordable. The Chinese government provides financing through its Export-Import Bank of China (i.e. China Eximbank).

To shine more light on the discussion regarding world-class infrastructure and its apparent China-only widespread appearance, I submit the following posts:

1. Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility Opens to Science Researchers

Though large-scale construction equipment and technology may appear advanced, building a synchrotron is far more difficult. If China can build an advanced synchrotron, construction technology is relatively simple in comparison.

2. Three Gorges Dam generates the electricity of 21 Hoover Dams

China's infrastructure technology is second-to-none. China's Three Gorges Dam is truly advanced. It produces the power of 21 Hoover Dams.

3. Hydro superpower China has "the world's largest hydropower capacity"

China is a master of different types of advanced construction technology. "The 958 ft. (or 292m) Xiaowan dam is the world's highest hyperbolic arch dam; as high as the Eiffel Tower." In contrast, the Three Gorges Dam is a concrete gravity dam.

4. Sudan hails world's longest dam

The building of a single Chinese dam in a developing country, such as Sudan, can have an incredible impact. It can immediately triple a country's power supply. "The 9.7-km dam is the longest one in the world with a total capacity of 1.25 million kilowatt, twice as much as Sudan's existing power supply."

"He said that the dam's eight 350-ton super cranes, dubbed "Gate Machine" in their jargon, were all shipped from China."

5. Sudanese-Chinese Friendship Bridge spans over Nile River

Countries that are friendly to China may qualify for large-scale infrastructure at "friendship" prices. A Chinese friendship-bridge across the Nile River cost Sudan a mere $20 million.

 

[Martian2]

Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility is a third-generation synchrotron radiation light source. Until now, SSRF is the largest scientific platform for science research and technology development in China. (Photo: SSRF)

The photo taken on March 16, 2009 shows the interior of the Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility (SSRF). The 1.2 billion yuan (or $175 million U.S. dollars) synchrotron radiation project in Shanghai will be fully operational in late April. SSRF is a great tool for the Chinese science research community and industry. (Xinhua/Pei Xin)

Researchers perform experiments at the Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility (SSRF) in China on March 16, 2009. (Xinhua/Pei Xin)

Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility Opens to Scientific Researchers---Chinese Academy Of Sciences

"Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility Opens to Scientific Researchers
2010-01-29

Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility (SSRF), a third-generation of synchrotron radiation light source passes national inspection on January 19 and will be open to home and abroad scientific research, according to Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences (SINAP).

SSRF is the biggest scientific platform for science research in China up to now. The construction of the project started on Dec 25th, 2004 in Shanghai, and cost 1,200 million yuan (about 176 million U.S. dollars).

The facility consists of three accelerators: a 150Mev electron LINAC, a 180-meter booster that can increase the electron energy from 150MeV to 3.5GeV in 0.5 second, and a 3.5GeV electron storage ring with a perimeter of 432 meters. The project also includes 7 initial beamlines and experimental stations.

The mega experimental platform will then help carry out research on life sciences, medicine and pharmacy, new material, physics, chemistry, petrochemical industry and biotechnology.

[Many] hundreds of scientists and engineers from universities, institutes and industries in domestic and even overseas will be able to use the facility to [perform] research and experiments.

ZHANG Xiaoqiang, Vice Chairman of China’s National Development and Reform Commission, CAO Jianlin, Vice Minister of China’s Ministry of Science and Technology, JIANG Mianheng and ZHAN Wenlong, Vice Presidents of the CAS and experts from related areas attended the inspection and acceptance conference held in Shanghai."

Point Grey Research - Insights January 2007

"[It] will provide x-ray, infrared and ultraviolet beams of exceptional brightness. These will be used by scientists and engineers for research and development in many fields including biomedical science, medical research, environmental sciences and physical sciences.
...
What is a Synchrotron Light Source?

A synchrotron light source is a very large machine designed to produce intense beams of light. Millions of times brighter than an X-ray, synchrotron light is generated by using powerful magnets to accelerate electrons that are traveling near the speed of light. Infrared, ultraviolet and X-ray light is shone down beamlines to end stations (small laboratories) where scientists can select different parts of the spectrum to view the microscopic nature of matter, and investigate it at the scale of atoms and molecules. Synchrotron light is an indispensable tool in many research areas including physics, chemistry, materials science and crystallography, and is increasingly being used in medicine, geological and environmental studies, structural genomics and archaeology. Many everyday commodities, from chocolate to cosmetics, drugs, surgical tools, computers and mobile phones, have been developed or improved using synchrotron light."

 

[Martian2]

The Hoover Dam on the Colorado River is an American icon. It generates a massive 4 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity each year. Astonishingly, China's Three Gorges Dam produces the electricity of 21 Hoover Dams at 84.7 billion kilowatt-hours.

China's Three Gorges Dam is "the world's largest electricity-generating plant of any kind."

"One of the nation's best-known engineering marvels, the Hoover Dam"

China fills Three Gorges Dam to capacity - CNN

"China fills Three Gorges Dam to capacity
October 26, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff

China's Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest water project, was fully filled Tuesday, state media said.

The water level hit the dam's design capacity of 175 meters (574 feet) at 9 a.m. Tuesday, said the corporation that developed the dam.

The 175-meter milestone will "enable the project to fulfill its functions of flood control, power generation, navigation and water diversion to the full," said Cao Guangjing, chairman of the China Three Gorges Corporation.

When the dam in central China reaches full generating capacity next year, it will produce 84.7 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity, the Xinhua news agency said. That's enough to meet Beijing's needs for a year.

By comparison, the United States' Hoover Dam produces about 4 billion kilowatt-hours each year, enough to serve 1.3 million people in Nevada, Arizona, and California.

The 2,309-meter-wide (1.4 mile-wide) Three Gorges project, built in the upper-middle reaches of China's longest river, began storing water in 2003. Water is diverted to the parched farmlands and cities of China's north.

The Yangtze River has been responsible for some of the worst floods on record, with hundreds of thousands of people killed over the past century alone. The Three Gorges Dam relieves 15 million people and 1.5 million hectares of farmland in the Jianghan Plain from the threat of flood, the developer says.

Critics say the dam worsens pollution by trapping sewage and industrial waste. They also warn that an accident or natural disaster could create a catastrophe in the densely populated region. Smaller dams could have met China's needs, critics say.

An estimated 1.2 million people had to move to make way for the Three Gorges, which inundated 632 square kilometers (244 square miles) of land. Historians decried the loss of centuries of relics and antiquities, and the loss of a way of life for myriad rural residents in hundreds of villages, towns and cities."

 

[Martian2]

"The 958 ft. (or 292m) Xiaowan dam is the world's highest hyperbolic arch dam; as high as the Eiffel Tower." (Xinhua Photo)

China boosts, boasts hydroelectric power - UPI.com

"China boosts, boasts hydroelectric power
Published: Aug. 30, 2010 at 9:24 PM

BEIJING, Aug. 30 (UPI) -- China, whose latest hydropower station came on line last week, has laid claim to having the world's largest hydropower capacity, authorities said.

The inauguration of the Xiaowan hydropower station in China's southwest Yunnan province was described by Lui Qi, deputy director of the country's National Energy Administration, as a "great leap forward," China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

The 700,000-kilowatt Xiaowan station is expected to increase China's installed hydropower capacity to 200 million kilowatts, Xinhua said. The country's second-largest hydropower project, which cost $5.86 billion, can produce 19 billion kilowatt hours of electricity every year, officials said.

The station will receive water from the Xiaowan dam, the world's tallest double-arch dam with a storage capacity of almost 530 billion cubic feet.

The Xiaowan is the fourth dam the Chinese have built on the upper part of the Mekong River, which the Chinese call the Lancang, Inter Press Service reported."

[Note: Thank you to "ANR" for the post.]

 

[Martian2]

Feature: Sudan hails world's longest dam_English_Xinhua

"Feature: Sudan hails world's longest dam
XINHUANEWS 2009-03-04 08:02:34
by Chen Gongzheng, Shao Jie

"Local people come to attend the celebration as the Merowe Dame began to generate electricity at Merowe, Sudan on Mar. 3, 2009. Merowe Dam, the longest of its kind on the world famous Nile river in Sudan's Northern province, some 450 km north of the capital city Khartoum. With a total span of 9.7 km and a maximum height of 67 meters, the Merowe Dam is a multipurpose project designed for power supply and agricultural irrigation. It has a 1.24-billion-cubic-meter reservoir that could help more than 4 million local residents living along the Nile. The dam was built by a joint venture formed by China Water Resources and Hydropower and China International Water and Electric Corp. (Xinhua/Zhai Xi)"

MEROWE, Sudan, March 3 (Xinhua) -- Squinting amid the dazzling sunshine on the brink of the Sahara Desert, Asem Khalil Idris tried to get a clear view of President Omar al-Bahir, who was addressing a crowd at the inauguration ceremony for Merowe Dam, the country's largest hydropower project.

"The power from the dam will create a lot of work opportunities," Asem, 39, a local resident coming from the Wadi Halfa town, said on Wednesday morning.

"Before today, We had to rely on diesel-fueled generators, which is noisy and very inconvenient," he said, adding that "we will have a more colorful life with less blackouts thanks to the president and the dam's builders, and the fruit trees and vegetable planted in my town will get the badly-needed irrigation."

As Bashir signed a takeover paper at noon, siren resounded over the huge dam and the vast artificial lake that has moistened the local air over the arid desert, marking the official start of power generation of the project.

"Photo taken on Mar. 3, 2009 shows a scene of the Merowe Dam in Merowe, Sudan, Mar. 3, 2009. (Xinhua/Zhai Xi)"

The 9.7-km dam is the longest one in the world with a total capacity of 1.25 million kilowatt, twice as much as Sudan's existing power supply.

Wielding his stick, encircled by entourages, Bashir danced to the rhythm of a 30-minute folk song on a table on a improvised platform. The president's trademark style was applauded by a crowd, who raised a forest of arms and chanted religious slogans.

"It's an important day and we got it finally," said Rashid in the crowd, who clapped his hands jubilantly in the crowd as the voluble president made statements and danced. "But I have not decided where to go after the dam."

Rashid, in his forties, a veteran driver, who has worked for CCMD JV, a Chinese joint venture that built the dam, for some five years.

"I hope it's not my last drive to Merowe," Rashid said with a little blue earlier on our way to the remote dam, some 450-km north of the capital city Khartoum.

The SUV took a U-turn at an intersection, where scores of people were standing on the roadside of a small town with various banners in their hands.

"This town is a local tourist attraction," Rashid said, "they are advertising for their town and the banner reads 'great place, good price' in Arabic."

A man holding a portrait of Sudanese President Omar al-Beshir (R2, front) attends a ceremony at Merowe Dam in Merowe, Sudan, Mar. 3, 2009. (Xinhua/Zhai Xi)

"CCMD (JV) rebuilt the desert road to Merowe for material transportation, and those people want to make more money because it saves a lot of time for the tourists coming from the capital," he said while flooring the accelerator pedal of the vehicle, which rustled through the strong north wind.

"It's a state-of-the-art project," said Wu Xiguo, chief engineer and deputy manager of the dam. "We won the contract at a much [more] reasonable price and finished it on time."

"The biggest challenge is the climate of Merowe," said Wu, who has got a good tan at the dam in the past six years. "The average temperature is about 40 degrees and some of my friends got malaria in the mosquito-ridden area."

"Another problem is the lack of resources," he added, "We came here in July 2003 and found nothing except the river and the infertile Sahara, so we have to import nearly everything, including toothpaste."

He said that the dam's eight 350-ton super cranes, dubbed "Gate Machine" in their jargon, were all shipped from China.

"But it pays, it will stand on the river for at least 100 years and some 4 million Sudanese people, or more than one-tenth of the total population, will benefit from the dam's irrigation system and power supply," he said.

Editor: Xiong Tong"

 

[Martian2]

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao (R) meets with Sudanese President Omer al- Bashir in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, on Nov. 7, 2009. (Xinhua/Yao Dawei)

"Sudanese-Chinese Friendship Bridge opened on January 17 2008 in Merowe, where the dam will be built."

Sudanese-Chinese friendship bridge spans over Nile River

"Sudanese-Chinese friendship bridge spans over Nile River

Like many Africans, Sudanese President Omer al-Bashir tends to express his happiness and excitement with dance. Yet as Sudan's president, he is seldom seen dancing in public.

On Thursday morning, a smiling and relaxed al-Bashir was dancing with a crowd of his fellow countrymen, who were celebrating the completion of the Bridge of the Chinese-Sudanese Friendship in this Nile riverside town of Merowe, about 350 km north of the Sudanese capital Khartoum.

"This is an important achievement," al-Bashir told the inauguration ceremony of the 440-meter bridge, which is the only one spanning over the world's longest river in the section between Khartoum and the Sudanese-Egyptian border.

"With China's help, with the endeavor of the Sudanese people, Sudan will certainly score glorious achievements one after another along our path of construction and development," the president added.

Al-Bashir's statements won loud and lasting applause from tens of thousands of local people, who were gathering from nearby towns and villages at both sides of the Nile River to attend the ceremony.

Locals took on white or brightly colorful dresses, which they often use at various festivals, to celebrate the occasion, which marks a historic end to the painful inconvenience of no bridge for nearby areas.

With infectious smiles in the face, some were singing and dancing, some were beating drums, and others were playing traditional musical instruments.

Chinese Ambassador in Sudan, Li Chengwen, said told the ceremony that the bridge was another symbol of the deepened friendship between China and Sudan.

"The Chinese government and its people both wish Sudan to continue realizing development and prosperity, and will continue to provide various kinds of assistance to Sudan in this regard," said the ambassador.

The 20-meter wide bridge links Merowe on the eastern bank of the Nile River to Karima on the other side.

"The completion of the bridge will greatly facilitate transportation and traffic for local residents on both banks of the Nile River," Merowe mayor Sarah Ali Ahmed said, adding that there was a total population of some 1.5 million in Merowe and nearby towns.

The bridge will not only make Merowe center of a local road network in northern Sudan, but also enhance economic and tourism developments for Merowe, which is the oldest city in Sudan with a history of some 5,000 thousand years, said the beaming mayor.

Around Merowe, there are some pyramids and ruins of palaces which could be dated back to 3,000 B.C., but such tourism resources had gone basically untapped for many years because of the limitation of poor transportation, said Ahmed.

"The Bridge of the Chinese-Sudanese Friendship is really a bridge extending between the peoples of the two countries," Ahmed told Xinhua.

Friendship between Sudan and China has been deeply rooted thanks to the efforts exerted by their leadership and peoples, he added.

A teacher at Merowe's high school echoed the mayor's sentiments. "The bridge is a best gift given by the Chinese people to the Sudanese people," he said.

Construction of the bridge, which started in May of 2004, was also implemented by a Chinese construction contractor called China's Jilin International Economic and Technical Corp.

Guo Jinwei, the contractor's general manager, told Xinhua that Sudanese and Chinese constructors had not only jointly built this landmark bridge, but also fostered good friendship during the past three years when they overcame many difficulties, including sand storms and extremely hot weather, to complete the project with high quality.

The bridge was built at a [friendship] cost of 20 million U.S. dollars, half of which was donated by the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC), China's biggest oil and gas producer.

Qin Anjiang, CNPC's representative who participated in the ceremony, said that it was one of the donations made by the CNPC to the Sudanese people since it came to Sudan some ten years ago.

The CNPC, which has been actively involved in Sudan's energy industry development, had donated more than 45 million U.S. dollars to the Sudanese people in the education, cultural, agricultural, transportation and medical fields, said Qin.

"The facts have proved that both China and Sudan are winners of the cooperation in the oil field, which has deepened our friendship and consolidated our cooperation in other fields," he concluded.

Source: Xinhua"

 

[Martian2]

Qingdao, China: Golden City | Qingdao China | QINGDAO(nese)

Qingdao, China: Golden City
(By Steven in Qingdao Life)

"Enjoy these photos of a metropolis on the move, the Sailing City going forward full speed ahead."

"Qingdao is one of the most important success stories of China’s economic miracle. This ever-growing city is home to one of the top ports in the country, two of China’s largest appliance makers (Haier and Hisense), the most recognizable consumer brand in China (Tsingtao Beer), a massive oil refinery project and strategic oil base in the Huangdao Development Zone, highly successful exporters, manufacturers, importers, and a large number of thriving multinational corporations either producing or operating offices here (such as Durex, Ikea, Nike, Lucent, Nestle, Stihl and many more). It’s no wonder the World Bank has honored Qingdao as one of China’s six “Golden cities”. The US Commercial Service agency had these good things to say about doing business in Qingdao:

Located on the southern tip of the Shandong Peninsula, Qingdao is one of eastern China’s major economic centers. Nestled between mountains and ocean, Qingdao’s unique cityscape is studded with lovely beaches, classic European architecture and ample green landscape. The city is well known for its historic and scenic tourist attractions, as well as being one of the best places in China to live and do business.

The World Bank honored Qingdao as one of China’s six “Golden cities” (a measure of investment climate, harmoniousness, governance and other measures). In recent years, the city has attracted billions in foreign direct investment and engages in trade with virtually every country on the planet. Among the city’s 17,854 foreign investment projects, 76 Fortune 500 companies have established projects in Qingdao."

 

[最爱高古陶]

i work for goverment. domolish private house for infrustruture is a tuff work for goverment. for example, in my town, almost every goverment employees join the negotionation with villages for compansation their house. we work day and night. some villagers took 3 months to agree the deal. if the villagers dont feel satisfied for the compansation, we can't demolish in force.
the commly compasation : averagely private house 220 square meters, we provide two 150 square meters apartment(high rises) for them, the extra 80square meters only need to pay a little money. they usually sell one apartment(100000 usd),and live another one himself. if he wont the new apartment,then we give he cash

 

[below_freezing]

The second picture is not Wuhan. It is Yokohama, Japan.

°Ù¶ÈͼƬËÑË÷_Î人ҹ¾°

I just typed in "Wuhan Night View" on baidu. That was the first result.

You can view the other images, they'll show you the same thing.

Also, i'd just like to point some things out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

Are people from taiwan, singapore and hong kong truly SMARTER than people from the mainland? Do jews get dumber in Israel but smarter elsewhere? Iran has a low average IQ but they had great achievements before; does that mean iranians got dumber in the past 200 years? Russia has a low IQ but we don't need to go over their numerous Nobel Prizes and engineering achievements. In the 19th century people would've said that Chinese people had low IQ, can IQs change?

Also, note that it's just a book. It is not a peer reviewed scientific article.

Look, attributing things to IQ is controversial in that IQ is hard to really quantify; what does an IQ of 0 correspond to and how does it differ from an IQ of 1? yes, you can do all sorts of statistical nonsense with the IQ numbers, but in the end your inputs are wrong to begin with.

It's just easier to say that instead of IQ, cultural factors, government policy and international environment are indicators of future development. It's still the same end result, but doesn't need to deal with crap like IQ that isn't mainstream accepted. Africans and Latins don't develop because their best and brightest are lining up for plane tickets to Europe and US while they also have the resource curse and corrupt dictators. They have weak nations and so once their best and brightest are gone, those "best and brightest" see themselves as 100% pure americans that look down on the other Africans and latins. Their governments are weak corrupt dictatorships. They have nothing to offer except raw materials and it's been that way for 200 years. It started out that way because they got fucked during industrialization and didn't have the chance to come back like we did by playing enemy powers against each other.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Are people from taiwan, singapore and hong kong truly SMARTER than people from the mainland?

Not in my experience. If anything, I think main landers work a lot harder than Hong Kong locals.

(Also, the book says that the IQ in the Chinese mainland, Taiwan and Japan are all the same at 105).

It's just easier to say that instead of IQ, cultural factors, government policy and international environment are indicators of future development. It's still the same end result, but doesn't need to deal with crap like IQ that isn't mainstream accepted. Africans and Latins don't develop because their best and brightest are lining up for plane tickets to Europe and US while they also have the resource curse and corrupt dictators. They have weak nations and so once their best and brightest are gone, those "best and brightest" see themselves as 100% pure americans that look down on the other Africans and latins. Their governments are weak corrupt dictatorships. They have nothing to offer except raw materials and it's been that way for 200 years. It started out that way because they got fucked during industrialization and didn't have the chance to come back like we did by playing enemy powers against each other.

I agree completely. Cultural factors, Government policy, etc. are all good factors to answer the topic question.

 

[Speeder 2]

Are people from taiwan, singapore and hong kong truly SMARTER than people from the mainland?

Smarter is a blurring term. I would say the inherited mental ability of Chinese are the same no matter where they are.

However, IQ is slightly more than inherited mental ability.

Environement (i.e. culture, education, nutrition, govt policies, `good weather`, `human rights`, `good parents`, `good uncle and grandpas`, `nice indoor tempretures`, `a big gargen behend the house`, etc. etc) does help a bit (some more points) on IQ, no too many though - see Flynn Effect.

Do jews get dumber in Israel but smarter elsewhere?

Israel has average IQ of 92, significantly lower than that of CHina mainland, because a significant part of Jews in Israel is not Ashkenazi Jews, who are relatively much more in both USA and Europe (Nederlands, Germany, etc).

People may wonder why Israel is so good at weaponary techs if they avrage IQ is much lower than China's? Well, it's mainly due to the US. Many US Ashkenazi Jews in teh US have US-Israel Duel Citizenship. The annual US aids to Israel (many are in the forms of military tech and equipments) averages about $ 5 Billion over the past decades.

Iran has a low average IQ but they had great achievements before; does that mean iranians got dumber in the past 200 years?

It is still a blurring concept of what is "had great achievements"? But I go along with it.

And what is "before"?

A tiny portion of Iranians was kinda of "white" ( a part of so called ancient "Arjans", basically European Stock) in the pre-historic time. That might explain why Persia had some great achivements in maths, arts, achitectures, etc. in ancient times. Ancient Greece was quite advanced too. However, majority of Iranians today are of Middle East Arab stock, with considerable inter-breeding with Africans throughout the history. That's why their average IQ is not as high as Whites or East Asians.

Food for thought: even much poorer than Iranians and had much less resources, North Koreans got their atom bombs figured it out long time ago; yet presumerablely even with earlier Chinese and Russia tech assistance which were/are NOT avaliable to N Koreans, how's Iranians doing on that now?

Russia has a low IQ but we don't need to go over their numerous Nobel Prizes and engineering achievements.

Who said that Russia has a low IQ? Russia IQ is about the same as the European IQ - averaging about 100.

Furthermore, Nobel Prizes is not an objective measure of general achivements over times. Nobel Prizes have been set up in the era where the Western cilvilisation(science&arts) was at its pinnicle, while Eastern Asian ones were at one of its lowest points in history.

e.g. On per capita internatinal patent granted ( which I see is a fair gauge), Taiwan (98% Han Chinese), South Korea and Japan rank much higher than Russia.

In the 19th century people would've said that Chinese people had low IQ, can IQs change?

Then people were ignorant, they were wrong. During much of the 19th century China was in civil unrest, which made the country poor. However, poor does not neccesarily equate to low IQ.

North Korea is poor. With all the sci-tech knowledge we have, can we say North Koreans have low IQ?


IQ could change over time with better nutrition, education, even some positive cultural influence, etc. all are so called "environmental effects". However, the magnitutde of that change is tiny, as the bulk of the Human IQ that we inherited has been shaped by nature thousands and thousands years ago.

For example, the last time when some of North East Asian genes (IQ related) were subject to noteble natural selection ( which was thought by scientists to be one of the crucial contributors to their high IQ) was at least 6000 years ago, according to DNA analysis.

Yes, IQ changes, but for it to change significantly, more or less we are talking about the units of 1000 years.

Also, note that it's just a book. It is not a peer reviewed scientific article.

There're countless related research papers are of peer-reviewed quality. The west has been suffering from political correctness since 70s Human Rights Movement. Many IQ research and works are taboos that no one with high position dare to touch, else the PC brigates would bury their carrers alive.

Look, attributing things to IQ is controversial in that IQ is hard to really quantify; what does an IQ of 0 correspond to and how does it differ from an IQ of 1? yes, you can do all sorts of statistical nonsense with the IQ numbers, but in the end your inputs are wrong to begin with.

well, i have to say that you need do some reading. IQ is indisputable. It is science, hello?

Rigorous quantification and qualification have been carried out over the decades in numerous related fields by scientists allover the world. Wake up, Below-Freezing mate! If you close your eyes, and prefer not seeing what´s right in front of you, you pretty much can argue that the earth is square-shaped too. I almost feel that I am arguing with a blind on this one.

Africans and Latins don't develop

ever asked why?

because their best and brightest are lining up for plane tickets to Europe and US while they also have the resource curse and corrupt dictators.

well, the good thing about IQ is that, `the best`can go somewhere else, the new generations of high IQers will come into being evey 18 years. The notion that this generation of `the best`has gone to the West is not a convinient excuse for, or the fundamental reason why, they have failed to develop over and over again throughout the decades.

East Asian `4 small dragons`showed the world how to do it. China shows how. Vietnam and North Korea would be the next in the line to show how the next day they quit communism, while Afrians and Latinos can´t. Wonder why?

 

[CardSharp]

No it is not. Race and inheritance are two very different things. Every race has its own populations of low, medium, and high-IQ people.

The whole argument that is being put forward here is that certain races/ethnicities have "naturally-higher" IQs than other races/ethnicities, and that this results in a higher level of economic development. That is bullshit.

From my studies in this field, I think that inheritance has only a minor impact (20-30&#37 on one's IQ. More often than not, one's environment is the deciding factor in one's intelligence (70-80%). There are a few outliers and exceptions, but overall this is true for any population.

Formal university studies or browsing the interwebz studies?

 

[CardSharp]

Well here is what I wrote about Intelligence and heritibility when I was arguing with speeder about 3 months ago

I knew this discussion would go too far. Discussions like this evitably turn personal, so I’ll throw in some caveats with regards to race and IQ.

IQ distrubtions like many things in nature follows a Gaussian distribution and the IQ number quoted is the just a mean (average) of the curve. This number says nothing about the range or how IQ’s are distrubuted about the mean.

When comparing IQ’s between groups of people, it is important to remember even with significant difference in average IQ ie a 20 point difference there is still a very very large overlap.

What this means is, IQ of races is almost a worthless indicator of job performance, societal status, and wealth, given that other factors can affect these to a much greater extent (things like socioeconomics status at birth, access to higher education, pushy parents that expect a lot, how hard an individual works, etc.)

BUT this is not to mean that the things listed above (nurture) will increase Raw IQ (it just doesn’t). Evolution is what determines intelligence. Intelligence is what makes us humans and race difference is just tiny compared to evolutionary intelligence difference from great apes to tool using pre-humans to modern humans.

Evolution of human intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(in fact you can often judge fossiles of prehumans and where they fall on the evolutionary chain by measuring cranium volume)

Lastly, I want to state that examples like how many scientists are chinese, or how many doctors are indians in America are invalid evidence for supporting IQ and race. These are heavily distorted by selection bias.

selection bias - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

The people who often travel abroad are often a self-selecting group with a higher percentage of professionals. This phenomonon actually has a name, Model minority. One example would be Canadians assume all chinese people are good at math (not true, I hate math) but it is a stereotype that does get carried by people.

Model minority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So really it is worthless to say anything about how many patents chinese scientists hold or how many Indians work at the JPL, they are a self selecting group and god knows the talent pool for both China and India is HUGE due to population size. (it would be a travesty if our peoples didn't succeed aboard given the number of people we have)

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The people who often travel abroad are often a self-selecting group with a higher percentage of professionals. This phenomonon actually has a name, Model minority. One example would be Canadians assume all chinese people are good at math (not true, I hate math) but it is a stereotype that does get carried by people.

Also, I would argue that Hong Kong people are a self-selected group as well. We were originally Mainlanders, and just moved to the island of HK in the fairly recent past.

 

[dbc]

Shanghai Skyline: Before and After

Shanghai Skyline: Before and After

I like the before image - is it just me?Maybe I've stayed in Texas too long