Red Dwarf
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Learn to write first, then complain
IAF SU30 Crashes
- Thread starter Patriot
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Learn to write first, then complain
NSG_BlackCats
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It is sad that we lost 2 SU30-MKI in a year. IAF is operating these fighters for more than 10 years. But fortunately this time both the pilots are safe. We lost $55 million; thank GOD no human life is lost this time.
Let’s wait for the probe (Only for Indian members). We have our own production line at HAL for SU-30MKI. We can add two more to it. IAF have to check whether it is due to proper maintenance, pilot error, pilot training or any other issue. I am sure IAF will seriously look into the reason behind the crash.
Let’s wait for the probe (Only for Indian members). We have our own production line at HAL for SU-30MKI. We can add two more to it. IAF have to check whether it is due to proper maintenance, pilot error, pilot training or any other issue. I am sure IAF will seriously look into the reason behind the crash.
Chanakyaa
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well said.
Neither the IAF nor HAL can get away with this.
If ur Frontline Fighter Crashes its a serious issue for u.
Spitfighter
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Don't be so sure about that, they've done it before and they can do it again. It's sad how we have such incompetent bastards running the air force.
Nothing will change, just like nothing changed after the first crash. There are many more crashes to come, I'm sure of it.
I read somewhere that the Russians don't design aircraft to be maintainence friendly. The Russian philosophy revolved around quantity rather than quality of airframes. In case of conflict they felt an aircraft would not last long so why waste time and resources on maintanence ?
Or better still it might be more economical to throw away an older aircraft for a new one - than maintaining the old airframe.
Or better still it might be more economical to throw away an older aircraft for a new one - than maintaining the old airframe.
Red Dwarf
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I think that philosophy was there during the cold war era. But i doubt they will continue that philosophy nowadays.
FireFighter
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That's not the case my friend. Russians fly those planes, too, but why don't they have as many crashes per year as the IAF? What about the Malaysians and the Chinese and other countries that fly Su-30s?
Something for you to contemplate on...
As much as I like and respect the Su-30s, let me tell you they're BEASTS in the air, and such huge beasts require massive expertize in maintenance that the IAF has yet to master.
A news report from Nov 1st 2009 - notice the no. of IL78 crashes and also grounding of the Mig 29 fleet. The Russian air force is having lots of problems with its own planes
OSCOW (AP) - A Russian heavy-lift military cargo plane crashed on takeoff Sunday in Siberia, killing all 11 crew members on board, officials said.
The crash was the second accident in less than a month involving an Il-76 , the mainstay of the Soviet and Russian air force since the 1970s. These and a string of other accidents have raised concerns about the condition of Russia's aging fleet of Soviet-built aircraft.
The cause of Sunday's crash was not yet known. The four-engine plane had just taken off from Mirny in the Sakha Republic when it banked to the right and was unable to gain altitude, said Vasily Panchenkov, a spokesman for the Interior Troops, which were flying the aircraft.
The plane hit a slag heap from an old mine and crashed, exploding on impact, he said. The plane, which was headed to Irkutsk, was carrying no cargo but its fuel tanks were full.
The Il-76 crashed about a mile (two kilometers) from the runway in open fields. No one on the ground was reported hurt.
The bodies of all 11 crew members were recovered, Panchenkov said.
Flying conditions were good, with clear skies, light winds and temperatures of minus -11 Fahrenheit (minus 24 Celsius), he said.
Federal investigators were on the scene and said they have recovered the aircraft's flight recorders. State television showed the charred remains of the giant aircraft scattered across the snow.
Russia's air force had temporarily grounded all Il-76 aircraft after an engine broke off the wing of a plane on Oct. 7 as the pilot engaged full throttle in preparation for takeoff. No one was hurt in that accident.
The ban was to have remained in place until experts could determine what caused the engine to break off and could check the fleet's condition. No information was available Sunday from the Defense Ministry.
The Il-76 has four engines mounted under its wings and is capable of carrying 40 metric tons (44 U.S. tons) of big cargo, such as armored vehicles.
The Russian air force also has a small number of the world's biggest An-124 Ruslan transport planes along with smaller and older An-12 turboprop transports, but it relies on the Il-76 for most of its heavy-lift capability.
Earlier this year, the air force announced that it had grounded its fleet of Mig-29 fighter jets and had to carry out costly repairs to make them safe to fly. The move followed a crash in December that occurred when a plane lost part of it tail section. Officials said the accident had been caused by corrosion.
Despite a steady rise in defense spending during Russia's eight-year, oil-driven economic boom, the military has received only a few new aircraft and has had to continue to rely on aging Soviet-built planes.
The Chinese are retiring some of the Su-27 airframes. IAF has a history of flying a lot of sorties on the aircraft they have - hence the more chance of wear and tear.
April 7, 2009: The Chinese Air Force is retiring its first Su-27 fighters, or at least the airframes. These were bought in the early 1990s, but 24 of them have reached their service life of 5,000 flight hours. This is a limitation all aircraft have, although it can often be extended. The F-16, for example, had a service life of 4,000 flight hours, but through the replacement of some airframe components, that was extended to 8,000 hours. The U.S. A-10 also had its service life extended from 8,000 to 28,000 hours. Same deal with the B-52, which had its useful life more than doubled, via several refurbishments, to 28,000 hours.
Engines, electronics and other components have different service lives. So these retired Su-27s are stripped of most components, for reuse as spare parts for other aircraft. Russian warplanes have, historically, had short service lives. This includes all components, especially engines. The MiG-29 was designed to last only 2,500 hours in the air. A refurbishment program has since been developed to extend that to 4,000 hours.
The MiG-29 was a watershed design for the Russians in the 1970s, who were beginning to build more sturdy aircraft on the Western model. Thus the Su-27s, which were designed a few years after the MiG-29, had the longer, for Russian aircraft, service life of 5,000 hours. Before that, most Russian aircraft were only good for 2-3,000 flight hours.
The Chinese Su-27s, which normally have two pilots assigned (a common practice worldwide) apparently allowed each pilot to get 120-130 hours a year in the air. That's less than Western pilots get, but twice what pilots used to get in communist countries. That's because these nations had Russian aircraft that would be quickly worn out if you allowed the pilots to fly them as much as their Western counterparts. But the Russians saw the error of their ways before the end of the Cold War, but not in time to re-equip their air force with pilots trained to a Western standard.
April 7, 2009: The Chinese Air Force is retiring its first Su-27 fighters, or at least the airframes. These were bought in the early 1990s, but 24 of them have reached their service life of 5,000 flight hours. This is a limitation all aircraft have, although it can often be extended. The F-16, for example, had a service life of 4,000 flight hours, but through the replacement of some airframe components, that was extended to 8,000 hours. The U.S. A-10 also had its service life extended from 8,000 to 28,000 hours. Same deal with the B-52, which had its useful life more than doubled, via several refurbishments, to 28,000 hours.
Engines, electronics and other components have different service lives. So these retired Su-27s are stripped of most components, for reuse as spare parts for other aircraft. Russian warplanes have, historically, had short service lives. This includes all components, especially engines. The MiG-29 was designed to last only 2,500 hours in the air. A refurbishment program has since been developed to extend that to 4,000 hours.
The MiG-29 was a watershed design for the Russians in the 1970s, who were beginning to build more sturdy aircraft on the Western model. Thus the Su-27s, which were designed a few years after the MiG-29, had the longer, for Russian aircraft, service life of 5,000 hours. Before that, most Russian aircraft were only good for 2-3,000 flight hours.
The Chinese Su-27s, which normally have two pilots assigned (a common practice worldwide) apparently allowed each pilot to get 120-130 hours a year in the air. That's less than Western pilots get, but twice what pilots used to get in communist countries. That's because these nations had Russian aircraft that would be quickly worn out if you allowed the pilots to fly them as much as their Western counterparts. But the Russians saw the error of their ways before the end of the Cold War, but not in time to re-equip their air force with pilots trained to a Western standard.
IAF is flying a (extremely) maintenance heavy imported plane. Two crashes in ten years, should not be a big deal.
Even USAF, with their home made, low maintenance planes and "highly qualified" pilots, suffers from crashes. One of the F22 crashed this year, killing the pilot.
Point is, no matter how much you train, accidents happen. IAF has nice track record with jaguar and mirage. So their capabilities cannot be doubted. Russian planes are not highly reliable, known fact. There crash doesn't imply incompetence of the operator.
And yes, Russian too fly the migs and sukhois but the flight hours are far less than that of Indians, because of limited budget. Thus, chances of crash reduces.
Even USAF, with their home made, low maintenance planes and "highly qualified" pilots, suffers from crashes. One of the F22 crashed this year, killing the pilot.
Point is, no matter how much you train, accidents happen. IAF has nice track record with jaguar and mirage. So their capabilities cannot be doubted. Russian planes are not highly reliable, known fact. There crash doesn't imply incompetence of the operator.
And yes, Russian too fly the migs and sukhois but the flight hours are far less than that of Indians, because of limited budget. Thus, chances of crash reduces.
abbasniazi
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I 100% agree to you w.r.t respect of human life, and in my opinion if someone doesn't cross ur border and u r not at war with that country uptill the time of accident, u shouldn't cheer the death of that person. its the other way round if someone crosses ur border or u r at war with that country.
graphican
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Don't speculate things folks let us wait for the real reason to come out.
Thank god IAF doesn't fly for people like you.
No offense buddy but what is your one most prominent reason of loving IAF? Just for general knowledge you know?
Because It's IAF Who Protect out indian without even thinging about their lives. No matter How much Accident happen they will not stop flying and assuring our protection agaings all the danger(IAF is still Flying MIG 21 untill other fighter came in to service)
And For Your "GENERAL KNOWLEDGE" 1971 and 1999(Kargil) is ENOUGH for us to LOVE IAF........ or U Still Want "MORE"
sudhir007
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yes it is but we lost 2 plane with in 6-8 month this about serious concern
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