India seeks new naval fighter to replace rejected Tejas LCA

[nik22]

IMO, it is more about the love of western gadgets than home built LCA Tejas. There is lobby that would be pursuing the western tech road because of their proven quality and more like if IAF can induct then numbers should be given to IN as well. Lastly, I read, IN asked for changes in Tejas after trial for Navy version but seems like they want more powerful bird like Rafale for naval air wing. LCA Tejas could have proven much in its category after some time as per IN needs and changes but the same turned out to be lobby love for western fighter that somehow, unnecessarily downplayed home built fighter LCA Tejas. Furthermore, IMO, it is totally injustice with indigenous project, all the hard work of people involved and the money spent on the same. Foreign Gadget lobby could be strong that came with such requirement of foreign fighter instead of LCA Tejas. Just saying.

You hit the nail on the head Bro! very well said!

 

[#hydra#]

IMO, it is more about the love of western gadgets than home built LCA Tejas. There is lobby that would be pursuing the western tech road because of their proven quality and more like if IAF can induct then numbers should be given to IN as well. Lastly, I read, IN asked for changes in Tejas after trial for Navy version but seems like they want more powerful bird like Rafale for naval air wing. LCA Tejas could have proven much in its category after some time as per IN needs and changes but the same turned out to be lobby love for western fighter that somehow, unnecessarily downplayed home built fighter LCA Tejas. Furthermore, IMO, it is totally injustice with indigenous project, all the hard work of people involved and the money spent on the same. Foreign Gadget lobby could be strong that came with such requirement of foreign fighter instead of LCA Tejas. Just saying.

Don't be blind by patriotism man,LCA with its low payload and range is actually a liability than asset. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know this. At least give a big clap to IN for supporting N LCA TD,the technology devolopment will finally ended up in future naval amca....

An LCA based carrier group has to go to enemy litoral waters for the use of LCA on offensive role in enemy air space for air to ground role,I think it's the dumbest thing anyone can do in combat time.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

IMO, it is more about the love of western gadgets than home built LCA Tejas. There is lobby that would be pursuing the western tech road because of their proven quality and more like if IAF can induct then numbers should be given to IN as well. Lastly, I read, IN asked for changes in Tejas after trial for Navy version but seems like they want more powerful bird like Rafale for naval air wing. LCA Tejas could have proven much in its category after some time as per IN needs and changes but the same turned out to be lobby love for western fighter that somehow, unnecessarily downplayed home built fighter LCA Tejas. Furthermore, IMO, it is totally injustice with indigenous project, all the hard work of people involved and the money spent on the same. Foreign Gadget lobby could be strong that came with such requirement of foreign fighter instead of LCA Tejas. Just saying.

Thanks for the concern, but the Navy has a 30 plus year history in developing the local industry.
From building floating 40000Ton cities to SSBNs, from state of the art destroyers to multi mission frigates.
The LCA Navy(Not the Tejas) is being funded by the Navy's own budget and they have a roadmap for the future.
The current chief of the LCA program is Commodore(Retd) C D Balaji:

and the Navy has also deputed several pilots for the program including but not limited to:Commodore Jaideep Maolankar, Chief TP of the NFTC

 

[#hydra#]

Lastly why IAF chooses LCA with despite of its range limitations is because,IAF is a dedicated military wing for air combat. It's having a mix of heavy, medium and light fighters for theirs need. At the end of the day shortcomings of a particular platform will be negated in presence other type aircraft,that not the case with IN they have only limited resources for its airwing,both internal of money and infrastructure (in this case flight deck are of a ship),so obviously somebody with brain will choose the best fighter out there for the use.

 

[The Eagle]

Don't be blind by patriotism man,LCA with its low payload and range is actually a liability than asset. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know this. At least give a big clap to IN for supporting N LCA TD,the technology devolopment will finally ended up in future naval amca....

An LCA based carrier group has to go to enemy litoral waters for the use of LCA on offensive role in enemy air space for air to ground role,I think it's the dumbest thing anyone can do in combat time.

Thanks for the concern, but the Navy has a 30 plus year history in developing the local industry.
From building floating 40000Ton cities to SSBNs, from state of the art destroyers to multi mission frigates.
The LCA Navy(Not the Tejas) is being funded by the Navy's own budget and they have a roadmap for the future.
The current chief of the LCA program is Commodore(Retd) C D Balaji:

and the Navy has also deputed several pilots for the program including but not limited to:Commodore Jaideep Maolankar, Chief TP of the NFTC

It is not about the patriotism alone but what I observe, is the issue in my opinion alone. I am not stating the same as a fact but an observer and by reading such development, I found such rejection as not just a surprise but in other words one can say, that wasn't pleasant at all. If it has to be Tech Demonstrator then IMO, should have been declared from the day one but what I read is, ASAP IAF signed Rafale for front line which is logical and strategical as well, IN found itself a bit lagging behind thus came up with such rejection that does not exists few days back (presumably). Also, the love for western or to say like ABC is not new but it is the the quality of product that you get so in touch and couldn't resist. If expertise and experience is the case then Rafale is totally new for both departments contrary to the Russian Jets operating as main fighters.

Look at the inventory that LCA Tejas is supposed to replace and check out current IN Air Wing. If IN priorities are changed then there no question arises but such decision cannot be made that quick when IN already suggested changes/modification of LCA Tejas Naval Variant/Prototype. These type of inductions also indicates the political interests as well that ruling elite/party plays a major rule too while adopting these integrations road. My opinion is based upon different point of view for such rejection, saying that Bird is capable but lobby played it differently which could be discouraging for the LCA Tejas team in overall prospect. However, IN has the choice to go for the best but same was not the case till few months or so back then. Tech demonstrator will come in handy when you are going for something far superior than existing inventory and in here in this case, how come LCA Tejas will provide such test bed when already an advance Rafale for navy is about to come though on other hand, such tech demonstrator superior than Rafale would be a totally new Aircraft and cannot be the current one because of its limitation and category as compare to Rafale. From different point of view, actually it affects the home built fighter program and strong anti-HAL lobby that wants a foreign fighter due to its quality/attraction instead of Tejas.

 

[Abingdonboy]

would you care to elaborate this statement?

Never heard about it!

GRTE is working with Safran of France to get the K10 operational, in 2018/19 it will be flight tested in India (on an LCA supposedly but I would bet it will be a multi-engine fighter).


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...roject-being-revived/articleshow/55694504.cms


As per Safran's assesment, Kaveri was 80% complete, they will help in making that 100%.

LCA Tejas could have proven much in its category after some time as per IN needs

Please point to me another carrier navy that operates a light weight single engined as a frontline carrier fighter, If the LCA was twin engined and in the18-20 ton class then it would fit with the IN's operational plans. It has NOTHING to do with loving foreign equipment and everything to do with filling the needs of service.

I don't understand why the IN is being asked by you chaps to totally fly contrary to all established norms, well actually I do, you aren't willing to exercise intellectual honesty on this matter.

Tech demonstrator will come in handy when you are going for something far superior than existing inventory and in here in this case, how come LCA Tejas will provide such test bed when already an advance Rafale

The N-LCA has nothing to do with the Rafale and vice versa, the N-LCA will be a tech demonstrator for the next ADA bird, the AMCA and the N-AMCA. If the IN are going to have a homegrown plane in the Rafale's class they need to have the fundamentals established (carrier take off, embarked operations, arrested landing, autonomous take of etc etc) hence the N-LCA will continue to be pursued by the IN, there is no substitute for this work, especially not buying a foreign jet.

Your entire argument is ignorant of the most basic facts and you have arrived at your conclusions (IN doesn't want the N-LCA because it is inferior to the Rafale) before establishing a compelling narrative or any facts.

Only the very biased are trying to link the N-LCA and Rafale purchase, the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[anant_s]

i suppose that is Tilt Shift Photography.

 

[TheRafael00000]

Doesn't Pakistan has the strongest airforce in the entire world as they have DSI technology already? why dose it need to wait 10yrs? Plus isn't 1 PAF plane = 10 Kafir plane?

Well, India loves counting. Just keep counting your days. Pakistan got full access to Chinese technology. Keep on importing whatever you can from France or Russia. Won't work at all.

 

[The Eagle]

Please point to me another carrier navy that operates a light weight single engined as a frontline carrier fighter, If the LCA was twin engined and in the18-20 ton class then it would fit with the IN's operational plans. It has NOTHING to do with loving foreign equipment and everything to do with filling the needs of service.

I don't understand why the IN is being asked by you chaps to totally fly contrary to all established norms, well actually I do, you aren't willing to exercise intellectual honesty on this matter.

That was purely my opinion and what I observed however, speaking of highlighted words, well that was totally uncalled for. That was totally wrong to compare an opinion with honesty in this matter.

The N-LCA has nothing to do with the Rafale and vice versa, the N-LCA will be a tech demonstrator for the next ADA bird, the AMCA and the N-AMCA. If the IN are going to have a homegrown plane in the Rafale's class they need to have the fundamentals established (carrier take off, embarked operations, arrested landing, autonomous take of etc etc) hence the N-LCA will continue to be pursued by the IN, there is no substitute for this work, especially not buying a foreign jet.

Your entire argument is ignorant of the most basic facts and you have arrived at your conclusions (IN doesn't want the N-LCA because it is inferior to the Rafale) before establishing a compelling narrative or any facts.

Only the very biased are trying to link the N-LCA and Rafale purchase, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Just because I expressed my opinion not the fact at all. You could have said it all without saying that. Did I compel to such, in my previous posts for anyone or the member. Every effort was to get update and that is all. It is IN that rejected LCA Tejas not me and rejected means, they are not interested. Tech Demonstrator N-LCA is totally new thing which was not stated before or they just realized that it is single engine etc that cannot fit into N-LCA reminding about the claimed numbers of LCA Tejas in past for both IAF and IN that turned into Tech Demonstrator now. You totally ignore the point of discussion only to impose your facts findings that leaves no room to carry on the discussion w.r.t. getting updated/learning. What biased or dishonesty like did I say that they are loving and more itnerested to have huge Kickbacks in this purchase as well while availing the opportunity under the name of foreign front line fighter for Navy.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It is IN that rejected LCA Tejas not me

They haven't "rejected" anything, they have clarified the N-LCA won't be a frontline carrier fighter but it will still be procured and developed, they aren't ceasing funding at all, they are fully invested in the project.

Tech Demonstrator N-LCA is totally new thing which was not stated before

They have said as much numerous times but I can't help that those unfamiliar with these things have missed it and are now drawing false conclusions.

LCA Tejas in past for both IAF and IN that turned into Tech Demonstrator now

It was always that for the IN, the IAF are commited to over 100 LCA as operational aircraft and this number will swell in the future to well over 200.

What biased or dishonesty like did I say that they are loving and more itnerested to have huge Kickbacks in this purchase as well while availing the opportunity under the name of foreign front line fighter for Navy.

A totally outrageous accusation with no basis at all. I've already told you that the IN's operational criteria is for a twin engined medium sized fighter (18-20 tons), as the N-LCA doesn't fit this criteria how can they opt for it? That is why the opted for the MiG-29K and in the future the Rafale-M and N-AMCA.

Again, what you are implying defies all logic, why would the IN have ever looked to the single engine N-LCA as their frontline carrier fighter when they could get MiG-29Ks or Rafale-Ms? The navy had issued RFIs for a "N-MMRCA" over 6 years ago, nothing has changed- their plans are just being enacted now.

 

[DOTO for life]

Only an idiot would spin this as a replacement for the LCA, the N-LCA was NEVER going to be a frontline carrier fighter for the Navy.


Unless someone actually thinks the single engined LCA is as capable as a twin engined Rafale...


Of course you would but instead you'll have to have your inferior jets go up against 300+ MKIs and 200+ Rafales.


Think again pal, Dassualt are in a legally binding contract with India to deliver 75% availability for the Rafale during peacetime and >90% during emergencies.

I hope u people have worked out a deal with Dassault for a decent meal for those Indians soldiers. You dont want them using your multi million dollar equipment empty stomach do you!

 

[Tshering22]

So after IAF reluctantly accepting the Tejas and the navy having it declined, what's the future for the LCA.
Considering the IAF is also shopping for a single engine fighter elsewhere.

120+ jets isn't reluctance.

It is a firm order.

The reason why we are shopping apart from Tejas is because our production rate cannot keep up with the desperate demand that our forces have. At peak capacity, even with two new factories (in development now) complete, we cannot make more than 50 jets a year.

IAF and IN need a combined of over 300+.

You cannot just ramp up production for some time and then put a lock on the factories after the need is satisfied 10 years down the line. We are not a weapons exporting country and won't be exporting strategic platforms anytime soon (except missiles and warships maybe) so these production lines would be a major loss for the country if shut.

Hence, we are having a multi-vendor policy.

Tejas won't replace anything in the Navy. Our entire Naval aviation division is overhauled with brand new jets. It will simply add to our fleet. Only IAF Tejas is supposed to replace MiGs.